Do "Tops" and "Bottoms" ever hurt/stop a relationship?

headbang8

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amhersthungboi said:
I agree with previous people, in that I feel like those guys who identify as "total tops" still experience internalized homophobia -- they feel as though if they become a bottom, then they lose their masculinity and truly are "gay", and therefore have to embrace all that goes with being gay (if there is anything). ...for me there is little else that is a bigger turn off than to hear a guy say "I'm a total top", especially since, in my experience, those are also the guys who don't kiss and don't suck. If you're going to have sex with a guy, actually have sex with the whole GUY, and don't treat him like he's just a hole.

I'm one of those total tops. Internalised homophobia? Maybe. My generation suffers no shortage of self-loathing queers. And I certainly loathe myself from time to time!

But I'm not so sure that it extends to the sex act. Rather, like many men and women, I'm equipped with a tin-can ass. It hurts, and I hate the pain. My partner(s) see it, and generally find pain during a pleasurable act a turn-off, as would I under the same circumstances.

So, we don't do anal very much. We're very oral. And to me, oral sex seems "gayer"; forcing us less into masculine/feminine, dominant/submissive roles. Active and passive moments mingle easily, and the whole thing feels fluid and spontaneous. As befits a relationship of equals.

amhersthungboi said:
As far as the top/bottom dynamic in a relationship, it is my belief that a relationship is about give and take, and the ability to compromise and both bring each other pleasure. If one guy prefers bottoming and one prefers topping, and those are the usual positions, that's great, more power to them. But when one guy refuses to bottom, or refuses to top (refusing to bottom seems more often the case) then there is something seriously wrong with that relationship, in my opinion.

I was in a relationship with a total bottom, once. He was a noticeably effeminate man, though at 6'4", with a strappiing farm boy's build and an outgoing personality, you'd never perceive him as weak or submissive. A very demanding bottom, he certainly wasn't "just a hole".

Still, it disturbed me. He wasn't "just a hole", but he was only a hole. He had such strong sexual preferences...I felt like we were engaged in the act rather than engaged with each other.

At that point, I decided I didn't particularly care for effeminate men, even if, conveniently, they were total bottoms.

A tough decision, because you can read homophobia into it. But then, in my trying-to-be-straight days, I didn't much care for effeminate women, either.

One of the most satisfying parts of being gay, for me, is that every sexual encounter requires a bit of ingenuity, give-and-take, and creative compromise. Men like problem-solving.
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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amhersthungboi said:
I agree with previous people, in that I feel like those guys who identify as "total tops" still experience internalized homophobia -- they feel as though if they become a bottom, then they lose their masculinity and truly are "gay", and therefore have to embrace all that goes with being gay (if there is anything).

I couldn't disagree more. I am a total top. I am truly gay and embrace my sexuality: I don't need to be a bottom to do so. My partners that are bottoms are masculine, and I don't view them as being less masculine for being bottoms. The view that the tops are men while the bottoms are substitute 'women' strikes me as ludicrous. The whole point is that we are both men, and whether one is an insertor or an insertee doesn't change that. People have preferences, and being a top is my preference. I won't say that I'll never bottom, but I haven't done it yet.

But when one guy refuses to bottom, or refuses to top (refusing to bottom seems more often the case) then there is something seriously wrong with that relationship, in my opinion.

There's an assumption that is faulty when you use the word 'refuse'. When my ex and I were still in a relationship, I was a top and he was a bottom. I never 'refused' to bottom: he never asked me to. He preferred to bottom, so it was natural for us to assume those roles. Why should we have reversed those roles? What would it prove? That we're flexible enough to perform in ways that made both of us feel awkward? Owning up to our preferences was not internalised homophobia: it was sharing ourselves in a way that both of us were comfortable with.
 

amhersthungboi

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There's an assumption that is faulty when you use the word 'refuse'. When my ex and I were still in a relationship, I was a top and he was a bottom. I never 'refused' to bottom: he never asked me to. He preferred to bottom, so it was natural for us to assume those roles. Why should we have reversed those roles? What would it prove? That we're flexible enough to perform in ways that made both of us feel awkward? Owning up to our preferences was not internalised homophobia: it was sharing ourselves in a way that both of us were comfortable with.[/quote]

I agree -- if both partners are okay with taking or role or another, then good. However, if one partner wants to switch it up, and the other refuses to do so, citing being a 'total top' or 'total bottom', then something is wrong with the relationship in that one partner is unwilling to compromise.

And, perhaps you can enlighten me, as soneone has been "vers" from the first time I had anal sex: Why are you a self-described "total top"? What is it about topping that makes you say, this is the only thing you'll ever do, or what is it about bottoming that makes you say "nope, never"? I'm very curious to understand how it is that someone can completely rule out a sexual position.
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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amhersthungboi said:
And, perhaps you can enlighten me, as soneone has been "vers" from the first time I had anal sex: Why are you a self-described "total top"? What is it about topping that makes you say, this is the only thing you'll ever do, or what is it about bottoming that makes you say "nope, never"? I'm very curious to understand how it is that someone can completely rule out a sexual position.

Reread my post:
"I won't say that I'll never bottom, but I haven't done it yet."
I'm not ruling it out. There may well come a day when I do bottom, but I think it will probably happen in the context of a committed relationship.
 

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I couldn't disagree more. I am a total top. I am truly gay and embrace my sexuality: I don't need to be a bottom to do so. My partners that are bottoms are masculine, and I don't view them as being less masculine for being bottoms. The view that the tops are men while the bottoms are substitute 'women' strikes me as ludicrous. The whole point is that we are both men, and whether one is an insertor or an insertee doesn't change that. People have preferences, and being a top is my preference. I won't say that I'll never bottom, but I haven't done it yet.

First DMW, I think you are the exception that proves the rule (or however that saying goes).

But as for being a "total top" (which admittedly probably doesn't have an exact Webster's definition) I was under the impression that you kissed plenty and sucked cock, two things that would get you banned from many "total top" clubs.

As for that particular view being ludricrous, of course it is, when has that ever stopped anyone from believing something?

Thank God for "total tops" like DMW, one day I may find one of my very own. (and I'll hug him and squeeze him and call him whatever he wants!)
 

rawbone8

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headbang8 said:
One of the most satisfying parts of being gay, for me, is that every sexual encounter requires a bit of ingenuity, give-and-take, and creative compromise. Men like problem-solving.

This last statement ideally applies to any good sexual relationship. It certainly resonates with me in the realm of my experiences as a straight male. From my perspective I can see there are parallels in male-female sexual roles with regard to the aspect of "role expectation" and also versatility. Not every straight male is a macho top all of the time, at least in my case (though it is my preference). Not every female is a total "bottom". And I mean that figuratively as well as literally. There are ranges of behaviour and creative sexual expression in the straight world that compare with those I've seen described here. I see more common ground now than I had been aware of.

And Headbang8, it's always a treat to see your posts. You are easily one of the best communicators I've read on this site.
 

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Grower said:
But as for being a "total top" (which admittedly probably doesn't have an exact Webster's definition) I was under the impression that you kissed plenty and sucked cock, two things that would get you banned from many "total top" clubs.

Let's not confuse 'top' with 'trade'. According to most online sources, the top is the active partner (insertor, 'pitcher') in anal intercourse. That's the definition that describes me, but there's more to sex than ass-fucking. Yeah, I'm an absolute slut when it comes to kissing. And as for cock-sucking, I'll suck a cock till the inside of my mouth goes numb, take a deep breath and then finish the job. I'm gay: I enjoy sex with men. When a man refuses to engage in any sexual act with another man other than fucking his ass, that's 'trade' ... and that's not me.
 

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DoubleMeatWhopper said:
Let's not confuse 'top' with 'trade'. According to most online sources, the top is the active partner (insertor, 'pitcher') in anal intercourse. That's the definition that describes me, but there's more to sex than ass-fucking. Yeah, I'm an absolute slut when it comes to kissing. And as for cock-sucking, I'll suck a cock till the inside of my mouth goes numb, take a deep breath and then finish the job. I'm gay: I enjoy sex with men. When a man refuses to engage in any sexual act with another man other than fucking his ass, that's 'trade' ... and that's not me.

Oh my God DMW! I think I am in love with you!:redface:
 

D_Elijah_MorganWood

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DoubleMeatWhopper said:
Yeah, I've been deeply, passionately in love. I may still be: I know I still feel strongly for the guy, but sometimes you just can't go back.

Oh dear. I had one of those. It took 7 years to get over him. I feel you. If you aren't with him there must be a really good reason if you feel that strongly.
 

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DoubleMeatWhopper said:
Not necessarily 'for pay'. It's also, "I'll fuck you because there's no pussy available, but don't expect me to kiss you or suck your cock, because that's only for fags."

Yay! Kissing and sucking cock makes you a fag? Im in.
 

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I am 100% gay and been with my other half for a long time. One of the things that keeps our sex lif fresh and interesting is that we are both tops & bottoms. And both love it. Being a Top or a Bottom does not define a relationship. The fact that we are very much in love makes any sex especially anal 1000 times better. If it is not your thing it just isn't. But the views of some seem to be so narrow minded and as if they have tunnel vision and can only grasp one point of view! Everything else on this has been said and quite well. Just because you bottom does not mesn you aare a fag or effeminite or (I hate this the women) in the relationship. It is 2006 and people still ask the same questions. :rolleyes:
 

headbang8

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rawbone8 said:
There are ranges of behaviour and creative sexual expression in the straight world that compare with those I've seen described here. I see more common ground now than I had been aware of.

I agree. ALL healthy sexual relationships demand some kind of sensual creativity to keep growing. You might just call it lucky that gay men and women are forced to be creative from the get-go, rather than having an easy default option.

In fact, while I enjoy the odd M2M schtup from time to time, it really does bug me that it feels like an imitation of straight sex. (Well, it does to me, anyway). Maybe I shouldn't have dallied with women in my youth!

headbang8

P.S. and many thanks the compliment, Rawbone8. I eagerly look forward to your posts, too. I see we have the same last name; do you think we're related?
 

rawbone8

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headbang8 said:
I see we have the same last name; do you think we're related?

I'll ask Mom.

BTW a pal of mine was wearing a shirt like your avatar's and quietly walking along, minding his own business, and an obviously distressed "lost soul" passing him on the street kept screaming "SHUT UP! SHUT UP!" over and over glaring at him. Startled, he said nothing in response and continued on his way, as the harangue continued.

Moments later he saw his own reflection in a store window and realized.... "Hmmm, that guy wasn't shouting at me, he was shouting at my shirt."

(true story)
 

D_Elijah_MorganWood

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DoubleMeatWhopper said:
Not necessarily 'for pay'. It's also, "I'll fuck you because there's no pussy available, but don't expect me to kiss you or suck your cock, because that's only for fags."

I guess we have regional differences? Hanging out in L.A. we more often used the turn "Trades" meaning you worked in porn and possibly prostitution and maybe a little dick dancing. I can see someone giving it away but never saw it where I was from. Is there a lot of this down south? Maybe it's the heat? Maybe nobody gives a thing away in Los Angeles. Maybe "Trade" is an entirely different term I don't understand due to the fact that I'm in the same club as Elle Woods. No, not Delta Neu.