Do You Believe in God?

Do you believe in God?

  • yes

    Votes: 338 51.1%
  • no

    Votes: 324 48.9%

  • Total voters
    662

basque9

LPSG Legend
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
9,210
Likes
280,591
Points
618
Location
Maryland, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Circular nonsense.

So faith defies human reason because it arises not from within man, but from the object of itself?

That you do not vibrate on God's transmission frequency is noted. That you are without the inner circle is evident! I suspect the proportion of
those who do possess oneness with God in faith is in the minority!

Belief probaly is not related to intellect, education or erudition! Belief is a state of being of the mind and spirit which defies your weak attempt at logical interpretation and may be beyond your blasphemous comprehension!:rolleyes:
 

basque9

LPSG Legend
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
9,210
Likes
280,591
Points
618
Location
Maryland, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
It doesn't surprise me that a species that uses so little of its brain creates god to fill in the gaps.

That is a quaint variant of the concept of God having created the species man to amuse his mind! That man might conceive of and create God is an elaborately elegant concept! I would love to witness such creativity in species man!:wink:
 

bobabooey69

Cherished Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2007
Posts
3,398
Media
5
Likes
493
Points
303
Location
Florida (United States)
Sexuality
100% Straight, 0% Gay
Gender
Male
That you do not vibrate on God's transmission frequency is noted. That you are without the inner circle is evident! I suspect the proportion of
those who do possess oneness with God in faith is in the minority!

Belief probaly is not related to intellect, education or erudition! Belief is a state of being of the mind and spirit which defies your weak attempt at logical interpretation and may be beyond your blasphemous comprehension!:rolleyes:

You'd think a brain that strains to string such big words together would have enough power to see past the fairytale of God.

:wink:
 

Equus14

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Posts
260
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
161
Age
34
Circular nonsense.

So faith defies human reason because it arises not from within man, but from the object of itself?

Wait...it gets better! When you consider that human capacity for reason itself is derived from the notion that we were "made in god's image," yet the source itself is the one entity to which this reason cannot be applied...oh, fits of laughter!

This, to me, is the mental equivalent of dogs chasing their own tails.

No, the idea of god exists because of human reason, not in spite of it. Like many forces in nature, our sense of reason abhors a vacuum, and things for which we have little or no understanding demand explanations. Religion and mythology represent a paradigm for understanding existence and purpose constructed by mankind in his infancy as a social animal. I tend to believe as Kuhn does, that such paradigms are not changed gradually or peaceably, but are shifted in revolutionary leaps...and that individuals generally lack the capacity to follow such shifts, clinging instead to the models familiar to them until death. As we trudge toward our social and technological adolescence, as our understanding of nature evolves progressively, the trappings of superstition will continue to die away with each passing generation until the god of Abraham takes his rightful place alongside Zeus on Olympus.


You're absolutely correct. There are many people on here that are delusional as I'm sure you already know.

delusional - Definitions from Dictionary.com
definition of Delusional:
"Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact"

It's unfortunate that religious/spiritual people were part of the 'in group' that determined what 'sanity' was years ago. Otherwise today most of them would be considered to be in need of treatment for their delusions.
 

basque9

LPSG Legend
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
9,210
Likes
280,591
Points
618
Location
Maryland, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
You'd think a brain that strains to string such big words together would have enough power to see past the fairytale of God.:wink:

Actually, bobabooey, it wasn't too much strain, but I did misstype probably, didn't I .. LOL . But, you did get my drift, didn't you? :smile:

You realize, of course, that it is not good form to disparage another person's brainpower ?? I should hope so! :rolleyes:

Seriously, tell me your vision , outside the "fairytale of God" , because I have an open mind and would consider your philosophy concerning what creates and what regulates all temporal matter!:smile:
 

basque9

LPSG Legend
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
9,210
Likes
280,591
Points
618
Location
Maryland, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
You're absolutely correct. There are many people on here that are delusional as I'm sure you already know.

delusional - Definitions from Dictionary.com
definition of Delusional:
"Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact"

It's unfortunate that religious/spiritual people were part of the 'in group' that determined what 'sanity' was years ago. Otherwise today most of them would be considered to be in need of treatment for their delusions.

How quaint!:smile:
 

D_Gunther Snotpole

Account Disabled
Joined
Oct 3, 2005
Posts
13,632
Media
0
Likes
73
Points
193
And yet so true.

Equus, I wonder if it makes sense to be so certain.
I probably hold views quite similar to your own.
I am an agnostic -- nearly an atheist -- on the question of whether God exists, especially if 'God' refers to a long bearded man enthroned in the clouds. But I can't say for sure that there isn't some organizing principle, some force, behind everything we see.
I just don't know. Not in any strong sense.
The other thing is that religious belief is something that is deeply personal and you can't attack such belief without doing many people injury. That injury may be irrational (or not), but the injury, or its potential, is normally enough to stay my hand a bit.
And in any case, when people feel under attack, they are less open to other views, not more so ... so if you wish to be a tribune of your particular version of the truth (which may be first cousin to my own), you do well to be gentle.
(But then you would be doing as I say and not as I too often do.:smile:)
 

Equus14

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Posts
260
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
161
Age
34
Equus, I wonder if it makes sense to be so certain.
I probably hold views quite similar to your own.
I am an agnostic -- nearly an atheist -- on the question of whether God exists, especially if 'God' refers to a long bearded man enthroned in the clouds. But I can't say for sure that there isn't some organizing principle, some force, behind everything we see.
I just don't know.


I would agree with this. In fact I'm an atheist agnostic. Agnostic in belief (I personally don't believe it can be known if a god exists or not even when I say with certainty that the god of every human religion that I know of doesn't exist.), and I'm atheist in practice (I have no belief in any gods and I live as if there isn't one.) As far as I can see with certainty there IS an organizing principle, a force that is behind everything that we see. We call it Nature and I don't see any reason to believe there is anything but Nature doing all the work.




The other thing is that religious belief is something that is deeply personal and you can't attack such belief without doing many people injury. That injury may be irrational (or not), but the injury, or its potential, is normally enough to stay my hand a bit.
And in any case, when people feel under attack, they are less open to other views, not more so ... so if you wish to be a tribune of your particular version of the truth (which may be first cousin to my own), you do well to be gentle.
(But then you would be doing as I say and not as I do.:smile:)


I understand, but for myself and my own personal experience it was realization of an alternative that made me question in the first place. I live in the Bible belt virtually surrounded by theists and it wasn't until I met and spoke to someone who was atheist years ago that I realized that there was an alternative. I didn't readily accept what they had to say but many many years later it came in handy and helped me out of my own bout of delusional thinking. It wasn't easy to give up but it has saved my life. I was on the verge of suicide between my religious beliefs and the abuse that I experienced during my school years.
 

Equus14

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Posts
260
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
161
Age
34
Hmm. Had no idea, Equus.
So you have reason to push away your particular religious heritage with real fervour.


Most definitely and for the fact that I actually do care about others so much that I cannot sit by while there are those out there who are experiencing exactly what I went through. When I have said that, 'religion kills' on here I meant that.

By the way, it's funny that you have that quote from GW Bush from when he was in Townsend, Tennessee on your posts. I live near there.
 

basque9

LPSG Legend
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
9,210
Likes
280,591
Points
618
Location
Maryland, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
Most definitely and for the fact that I actually do care about others so much that I cannot sit by while there are those out there who are experiencing exactly what I went through. When I have said that, 'religion kills' on here I meant that.

I do not understand exactly how you can care about others so much and
yet feel that it is alright to try to interfere in another person's beliefs! Does the pain and suffering that you experienced while you were a believer give you such license? If you cannot, in truth, prove that there are no Gods, with what conscience do you take your unwavering stand against any belief in God by others?
 

Equus14

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Posts
260
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
161
Age
34
I do not understand exactly how you can care about others so much and yet feel that it is alright to try to interfere in another person's beliefs! Does the pain and suffering that you experienced while you were a believer give you such license? If you cannot, in truth, prove that there are no Gods, with what conscience do you take your unwavering stand against any belief in God by others?


It's called an 'Intervention'.
Could you ever understand why anyone would interfere in someone else's belief that they have a right to destroy their own body with drugs and alcohol? If you know first hand that what they are doing and believing harms them and others even when they themselves deny such harm are you not morally bound to do what you can to help them?


You ask:"Does the pain and suffering that you experienced while you were a believer give you such license?"

It's not a matter of my pain and suffering giving me license to interfere. It gives me Reason and Desire to.


You ask:"If you cannot, in truth, prove that there are no Gods, with what conscience do you take your unwavering stand against any belief in God by others?"

Since you cannot prove their ARE any gods then there is no reason to believe that one exists. You may as well leave yourself open to believe anything that has no evidence for existence and yet cannot be disproven like trolls, fairies, and gnomes....etc...
I can only encourage people to live in reality. Reality is based on evidence not faith. And as the saying goes, "Aren't you a little old to have an imaginary friend?"
 

basque9

LPSG Legend
Verified
Gold
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Posts
6,058
Media
9,210
Likes
280,591
Points
618
Location
Maryland, United States of America
Verification
View
Sexuality
99% Gay, 1% Straight
Gender
Male
It's called an 'Intervention'.
Could you ever understand why anyone would interfere in someone else's belief that they have a right to destroy their own body with drugs and alcohol? If you know first hand that what they are doing and believing harms them and others even when they themselves deny such harm are you not morally bound to do what you can to help them? You ask:"Does the pain and suffering that you experienced while you were a believer give you such license?"It's not a matter of my pain and suffering giving me license to interfere. It gives me Reason and Desire to. You ask:"If you cannot, in truth, prove that there are no Gods, with what conscience do you take your unwavering stand against any belief in God by others?"
Since you cannot prove their ARE any gods then there is no reason to believe that one exists. You may as well leave yourself open to believe anything that has no evidence for existence and yet cannot be disproven like trolls, fairies, and gnomes....etc...I can only encourage people to live in reality. Reality is based on evidence not faith. And as the saying goes, "Aren't you a little old to have an imaginary friend?"

I do understand and agree with your concept of intervening when someone has placed his/her body in harm's way and that caring persons are morally obligated to do what they can to help them!
I think it is an incredible leap to apply that to trying to redirect a person's faith. Surely, believers are not going to be crucified..is that the harm you fear they might suffer?

You say the pain and suffering you experienced while a believer give you reason and desire to interfere. Is this not like starting a war because you desire to and you think it reasonable?

You say that because I cannot prove there is a God that you are justified in taking an unwavering stand against my belief, even though you admitted earlier that you could not prove that my God does not exist! Is this not like trying to steal from someone something that you do not need, do not want and can not use?

Yes, I do agree that each of us should leave ourselves open to beliefs which we cannot prove exist or not! I believe this allows the human mind the greatest flexibility to adapt to change and new discoveries.
 

Equus14

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Posts
260
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
161
Age
34
I do understand and agree with your concept of intervening when someone has placed his/her body in harm's way and that caring persons are morally obligated to do what they can to help them!
I think it is an incredible leap to apply that to trying to redirect a person's faith. Surely, believers are not going to be crucified..is that the harm you fear they might suffer?


"Faith" as it is being used by religion/spirituality is not a virtue. Believing things on 'Faith' alone is always a bad idea. It compromises ones ability to reason. Having ones reasoning ability compromised in that manner makes 'faith' of that kind no better than a drug. I've seen what 'faith' can do. It can make people do all sorts of things that any reasonable or rational person would not do. Sometimes extreme things, but mostly 'faith' just leaves people with poor judgment, because they will base their decisions upon what their 'faith' tells them rather than sound reasoning. Have enough people doing that and you end up with what we have now. People believing things for which there is no valid reason to believe and most importantly LIVING as if those things are true. That is very dangerous especially when it is something as powerful as religious or spiritual beliefs.



You say the pain and suffering you experienced while a believer give you reason and desire to interfere. Is this not like starting a war because you desire to and you think it reasonable?


No because war destroys. I'm not interested in destroying anyone or harming them but freeing people. Psychologically religion/spirituality acts like a drug on the brain, and it is addictive. Given the right sort of person religion/spirituality can consume a person's entire life. That is just like a drug, but most people only use the drug of religion/spirituality socially. Like going to the local bar only at cocktail hour.


You say that because I cannot prove there is a God that you are justified in taking an unwavering stand against my belief, even though you admitted earlier that you could not prove that my God does not exist! Is this not like trying to steal from someone something that you do not need, do not want and can not use?

If you're talking about the Christian god that has been proved to be fiction. How? Because the Bible contains limitations that can be proven to be untrue. If you just believed that your god existed and had nothing to do with any book but was just the creator of the universe and everything that science has been saying is just how your god did it then that god cannot be disproven, but that's probably the only one that could exist if one existed at all. But Nature fits that mold way too well to bother with the god concept.

You ask: "Is this not like trying to steal from someone something that you do not need, do not want and can not use?"

No it's more like telling someone that they are broke when they actually are broke but they believe and live as if they're as wealthy as Donald Trump. It would not be very loving to sit by while they harm themselves, and potentially others, by making decisions based on their false belief in their financial wealth.


Yes, I do agree that each of us should leave ourselves open to beliefs which we cannot prove exist or not! I believe this allows the human mind the greatest flexibility to adapt to change and new discoveries.


One of the greatest challenges that some people must face is to learn to distinguish the difference between that which is Possible and that which is Fantasy. Not knowing that difference can lead one not to realize when one has jumped from being 'open-minded' to simply 'gullible'.
 

Drifterwood

Superior Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Posts
18,678
Media
0
Likes
2,812
Points
333
Location
Greece
"Faith" as it is being used by religion/spirituality is not a virtue. Believing things on 'Faith' alone is always a bad idea. It compromises ones ability to reason.

One of the greatest challenges that some people must face is to learn to distinguish the difference between that which is Possible and that which is Fantasy. Not knowing that difference can lead one not to realize when one has jumped from being 'open-minded' to simply 'gullible'.

What I don't think that you are acknowledging is that there is a point at which your own power to reason will end.

I have found that those with real faith consider it apart from reason.

I do agree that your take on reason should be applied to all the dogmatic fluff around religions, but not necessarily faith, so long as that faith is held without and apart from the fluff.

The problem that you seem to be looking at is more to do with those whose reason is so lacking that hey cannot get behind the fluff, whilst those perhaps like yourself who have a stronger reasoning ability can, and therefore find those who can't, somewhat deluded. But again, I would stress that this is different from those who adhere to faith without the fluff.
 

Equus14

Experimental Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2005
Posts
260
Media
0
Likes
12
Points
161
Age
34
What I don't think that you are acknowledging is that there is a point at which your own power to reason will end.


No I fully comprehend that I do not have all the answers and that my reasoning ability will fail at one point because we do not have enough data to make any conclusions. But the problem is that it isn't okay to plug 'god' into the blanks either. We should learn that unanswered questions, even ones about the ultimate origins of life, are simply unanswered, and learn to live with not knowing. To make up an answer, or accept someone else's made up answer, because there is a human need to have every blank filled is not a solution, and is an impediment to real knowledge.


I have found that those with real faith consider it apart from reason.

Yes, that's called compartmentalization. For much of their life experience they can reason fairly well, but save a portion of their brain for the unreason of 'faith'. Not everyone compartmentalizes well that is why there are those who can't keep their 'faith' from influencing their reasoning ability.



I do agree that your take on reason should be applied to all the dogmatic fluff around religions, but not necessarily faith, so long as that faith is held without and apart from the fluff.

Compartmentalized well 'faith' is not really much of a problem, but human nature isn't something that we can count on to ensure this will be true for everyone. In some ways its like drinking alcohol. Some people are good at just having a drink now and then and do not let it control their lives, but others don't know when to stop. That's why I wouldn't agree that 'faith', religion, or spirituality being outlawed as alcohol has been in places and prohibited for the U.S. altogether at one point. That would not work. But discouragement as one would discourage any ideology, like we have discouraged racism and are in the process of discouraging homophobia. That's what I do.




The problem that you seem to be looking at is more to do with those whose reason is so lacking that hey cannot get behind the fluff, whilst those perhaps like yourself who have a stronger reasoning ability can, and therefore find those who can't, somewhat deluded. But again, I would stress that this is different from those who adhere to faith without the fluff.


That is true, but to espouse 'faith' is an example to others that is an imperfect example. Their version will not be the same as the original. That is why spirituality is so different as to fluffy details from person to person. It is their 'faith' that these things are true, yet cannot be proved. And no matter what a given person's example of a perfect 'non-fluff' faith might be it will not remain so when picked up by others.