Do You Consider Withholding Or Rejecting Sex A Form Of Infidelity?

Rsechs

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I have been lurking here for a while (sorry) and I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised at the generally high quality of strong opinions thoughtfully expressed. So, here’s a question for the women (not girls, females):

Do you consider withholding or rejecting sex a form of infidelity?

I am not talking about temporary lover’s quarrels, but a long-term (months, years) refusal to have sex with a spouse or significant other. And to make the problem harder, let’s add children, mortgages, tuition and careers into the mix so that the simple answer of just ending the relationship is not a ready option.

I am asking because I think some men outsource sex in such cases (whether justly or not) as a way of preserving the good parts of a marriage without having to drop the D-bomb, including all of the collateral damage that entails. Simply labeling them cheaters seems to beg the broader question of what constitutes “infidelity” in a relationship.

This is a serious (if long-winded) question that is intended to elicit your most thoughtful responses. Thanks.
 
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Enid

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IMHO, rejecting sex is anyone's right. Nobody has to have sex if they don't want to, period.

Withholding sex? That's an issue for discussion. As to why, what can be done, etc.

Partners who outsource sexual acts without properly communicating ARE cheaters. As far as I'm concerned, anyway.

Simply put, I don't necessarily think that partners who withhold sex are being unfaithful in the way that a partner who gets blowjobs from a friend is. But there needs to be a deeply honest conversation as to why and what can be done about it, because both people's needs are important.
 

LaFemme

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IMHO, rejecting sex is anyone's right. Nobody has to have sex if they don't want to, period.

Withholding sex? That's an issue for discussion. As to why, what can be done, etc.

Partners who outsource sexual acts without properly communicating ARE cheaters. As far as I'm concerned, anyway.

Simply put, I don't necessarily think that partners who withhold sex are being unfaithful in the way that a partner who gets blowjobs from a friend is. But there needs to be a deeply honest conversation as to why and what can be done about it, because both people's needs are important.
I completely agree.

While withholding sex for long periods of time requires honest discussion, it’s not infidelity. “Outsourcing” sex, without the knowledge and consent of your partner, is cheating. Lies tend to hurt relationships. It’s not like you said the chicken tastes nice when it doesn’t. Cheating is a lie that attacks the basis upon which your partnership is formed.

I honestly don’t understand cheaters. Yes, divorce can get ugly, it’s dissolving and separating a financial and emotional lifelong commitment. But I’d rather do that than have someone cheat on me. There’s nothing worse than discovering your life is a lie, feeling humiliated and used. It’s not just “outsourcing sex”. It’s not like calling in a repair person because you can’t fix the dishwasher yourself. It is almost unbearably painful.

So yes, discussions about sexual issues are critical, even seeking therapy for those issues. But cheating? Never an excuse.
 
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I'm not sure most men "outsource sex" as a means to fulfill a need for sex in the way you describe. I think it's more accurately called cheating.

If sex were withheld for years, and there were honest conversations about it, I don't think I have a huge issue with "outsourcing sex". Those conversations would be tough. I know a couple where the man worked out of town for an extended period... and on occasion, she would say "I'm having sex this weekend... you can be here, or I'll have it without you." He always made it home. I'm not sure if she was serious, but she made her point and it worked for them.

I do 10000000% agree with Enid that sex is not an obligation. However, within a marriage, I think it is a reasonable expectation... as is fidelity, honesty, compassion, etc. etc. etc.
 

AlteredEgo

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Do you consider withholding or rejecting sex a form of infidelity?
No. It May, however, be a failure to meet expectations. "Outsourcing". That's adorable. Unless it is mutually agreed upon, cheating is cheating; no amount of dressing it up in cute language changes this. As a lurker, I'm assuming you already read this: Significant Other Uses A “suck Buddy” . Nobody is likely to have changed her tune since.
 

Rsechs

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Yes, I did read that thread, which is what led me to try to state a real-world counterexample from the male parallel universe that includes the same feelings of anger, rejection, breach of trust, etc. that many women (justifiably) feel in cases of sexual infidelity.

So, why does “I discovered my spouse was cheating, so I kicked him/her out” seem to be a reasonable reaction, whereas “My spouse has refused to have sex with me for a year, so I kicked her/him out” does not? (Both, incidentally, are grounds for divorce—at least in New York).

I think the reason is that unlicensed sexuality (cheating) is seen as threatening social and moral order, whereas a diminished or nonexistent libido is seen as just another aspect of a “for better or for worse” marriage.

I agree 100% that no one is obliged to have sex and that cheating is deceit that differs in kind and not just in degree. But a spouse who rejects sex is not told that he or she is obliged to renegotiate the covenant of sexual exclusivity; rather, the burden implicitly shifts to his or her partner either to live with the situation or to “negotiate” for more sexual freedom (which, by the way, is not a winning position before any judge, priest, or in-law).

Where you put the burden, in other words, can make all the difference. Doubt this? Look at any number of divorce/marrriage movies, most recently “A Marriage Story,” in which (male) sexual infidelity is the go-to plot device. This is an asymmetry that is quietly reinforced dozens of different ways. Richard Dawkins is said to have said that a hen is just an egg’s way of making another egg and sometimes it is worth turning ideas upside down and giving them a good shake.

Regards.

P.S., First one to say “dead horse” shuts me up. Cheers.
 

LaFemme

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I agree 100% that no one is obliged to have sex and that cheating is deceit that differs in kind and not just in degree. But a spouse who rejects sex is not told that he or she is obliged to renegotiate the covenant of sexual exclusivity; rather, the burden implicitly shifts to his or her partner either to live with the situation or to “negotiate” for more sexual freedom (which, by the way, is not a winning position before any judge, priest, or in-law).
The burden of confronting a situation is always left in the hands of the person struggling with the issue. It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about household duties or sexual issues. The person who isn’t interested in sex anymore, doesn’t see an issue; the person not cleaning the kitchen doesn’t see an issue - otherwise they would do something about it. The person struggling has to make the choice - confront the status quo, or live with it.

Confronting the issue is fraught with risk. It’s unpleasant. Partnerships need to have these unpleasant conversations. If you can’t negotiate the terms of your relationship with the person you love, what’s the point. Both people deserve to be happy. There’s a reason why some people let their sex life dwindle into nothing - physical, emotional, relationship lethargy. It takes a jolt to restart things again. But again, it’s up to the person who’s unhappy to start the process.
 

Scarletbegonia

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Refraining from sexual relations is not infidelity.
It might be passive aggressive, it might be health based, or decline of attraction based, cruel or unavoidable, but not infidelity as it is used in our society.

If the other party responds by going outside the partnership and does so secretly, hiding either the affair from the partner or the partnership from the outside person, that's infidelity.
And they know it.
It isn't outsourcing, but given my view of economics in the USA, it's just as damaging.
 

MickeyLee

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The burden of confronting a situation is always left in the hands of the person struggling with the issue. It doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about household duties or sexual issues. The person who isn’t interested in sex anymore, doesn’t see an issue; the person not cleaning the kitchen doesn’t see an issue - otherwise they would do something about it. The person struggling has to make the choice - confront the status quo, or live with it.

Confronting the issue is fraught with risk. It’s unpleasant. Partnerships need to have these unpleasant conversations. If you can’t negotiate the terms of your relationship with the person you love, what’s the point. Both people deserve to be happy. There’s a reason why some people let their sex life dwindle into nothing - physical, emotional, relationship lethargy. It takes a jolt to restart things again. But again, it’s up to the person who’s unhappy to start the process.

As always, what Ms Femme said. She is wise.

I'd only add that both folks are probably equally unhappy. A complete lack of sexual/romantic intimacy doesn't happen with happy folk. The person rejecting or with what looks like a lack of interest in sex probably misses the contact just as much. Their way of expressing dissatisfaction is just different.
 

Tight_N_Juicy

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No.

I've never heard anyone tell someone "I promise to always provide you with sexual gratification as long as we're in this relationship". In my experience that's never been an established agreement in a long term relationship.

I've seen the argument made that it's ok to have sex outside of a monogamous relationship if one party isn't providing it. I couldn't disagree more.

A lot of people say "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health" as part of their wedding vows but seem to forget that a lack of sex is the "for worse" or "in sickness" in the flesh.

If you (just a general you, not aimed at anyone specific) can't handle the idea of your partner possibly changing in one way or another, including their sex drive, maybe long term relationships aren't for you.
 

Tight_N_Juicy

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Also... As for the people reading this who are already "stuck" in a sexless marriage and don't have the means/guts to end the relationship, well, if you cheat I don't feel bad for you. I just can't.

If you don't cheat, and just live with the decisions you've made, I feel for you. I'd never leave my man or step out on him if he stopped fucking me. But I'd miss sex so much. I'd mourn it. Frustration would be something I'd have to learn to live with.
 

EllieP

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I've withheld sex exactly one time: when I found out my ex was cheating on me and before I confronted him.

Why the wait? Because I was young, vulnerable and no clue to what I was going to do next. And to be fair, he was withholding sex from me as well because he was making deposits elsewhere.

I have said before that if for some reason sex became absent from our relationship that we would have to renegotiate the agreement. I'm dead serious about that too. Sex is very important to me. I believe it's a part of a healthy pysche.

I've endured periods of abstinence to the detriment of my mental well being. Sometimes it's unavoidable (absence), and other times it's our own fault. But we now both realize how important it is, and we try to make up for loss time.

I would never accept any valid reason for withholding sex, and I cannot imagine a reason I would either, except as previously mentioned.
 
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So, why does “I discovered my spouse was cheating, so I kicked him/her out” seem to be a reasonable reaction, whereas “My spouse has refused to have sex with me for a year, so I kicked her/him out” does not? (Both, incidentally, are grounds for divorce—at least in New York).
I think the difference is that if a spouse is cheating, there is a health risk that is justifiable to end it. No one died from lack of booty. They might be hella cranky, but not giving it up isnt exposing a partner to an STD.

Beyond that, LaFemme nailed it.
 
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Rsechs

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The burden of confronting a situation is always left in the hands of the person struggling with the issue. [...]. But again, it’s up to the person who’s unhappy to start the process.

Excellent point that. Thanks.

My interest in this topic stems in part from watching an acquaintance carpet bomb her spouse (also an acquaintance) on F-book. Having some understanding of the back story from both sides, I wondered what the world would look like if our understanding of “fidelity” were different.

I think that many more men than women would put “having an available and reliable sex partner” closer to the top of their reasons for getting (and staying) married. If so, the elimination of that—for whatever reason—necessarily strikes more deeply at one side of the relationship than another. Where the rejection is intentional or punitive (as opposed to being a consequence of illness, disability, etc.), it does seem—at least to me—to be a fundamental lack of faithfulness to the relationship.

But I repeat myself. Thanks again to all who contributed and best wishes for a Happy New Year.
 

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I've withheld sex exactly one time: when I found out my ex was cheating on me and before I confronted him.

That’s all I had to read to get why you did what you did. Bravo.

Not sure this is ‘withholding sex’ ...
Protecting your own physical & mental health.....winning at life, maybe.

A friend suggested I watch Sliding Doors recently. After hearing the plot, I might. I’m glad you found your answers sooner rather than later @EllieP