do you ever feel betrayed by other women?

Discussion in 'Women's Issues' started by dolfette, Jul 17, 2010.

  1. dolfette

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    betrayed as a woman i mean.

    like the women who encourage guys to think all women like being dry humped in clubs.
    or the ones who respond to cat calls in the street by flashing their pants.

    or do you think this kinda thinking is just sexist...expecting them to stand up for feminism just because they're female?
     
  2. B_dxjnorto

    B_dxjnorto New Member

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    Women always get to be the gatekeepers don't they.
     
  3. HiddenLacey

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    Nah, I think other women have a right to act however they want to. The issue is that men should not feel they can treat every woman the same. Just because one woman enjoys the club dry hump doesn't mean the next one will.

    Only repeated overtures from men I'm not interested in really begin to bother me. If one man is standing outside a store on his own and he gives a cat call or says "hey baby looking good.." or whatever I tend to ignore him, sometimes it makes me alittle uncomfortable, BUT sometimes depending on the guy and how he says whatever he says I may feel flattered. I'm darn sure not going to flash some strange man.

    If it's a group of guys it makes me nervous to even walk past them to get to my destination. I'm more likely to be ok with overtures if there is only one man there. When they get in groups it makes me anxious and scared sometimes and I would really rather if they left me alone.
     
  4. B_subgirrl

    B_subgirrl New Member

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    Nope. Often feel like I'm letting the side down myself though. I do feel like I should behave a little more modestly sometimes to avoid that kind of reaction from other women, but it would really be denying who I am. The best I figure I can do is to try to remember to make the 'but that's just me, can't speak for all women' claim.
     
  5. Not_Punny

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    No. People are going to be/do what they are going to be/do. Besides, I have other things to worry about -- like packing my bags for the incipient end of the world. :tongue:
     
  6. ManlyBanisters

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    Honestly? Yes - I do feel a little betrayed by those kinds of behaviour. But I try very hard not to.

    It's incredibly hard to be young and female - I remember making a right hash of it myself (and indeed not just young). On the one hand you are expected to be attractive, to eschew dowdiness, to embrace the generic idea of 'feminine', on the other hand you can't 'try too hard' (whatever that means) or actually be 'too sexual' (whatever that means) or have sex with any more or less than the right number of the right men (whoever they are) in the right circumstances (whatever they are). It's an impossible balance. If you get the former wrong you're a frigid, ugly dyke - if you get the latter wrong you're a whore, a slapper, a slut.

    It took me a very long time to work out that you cannot win - so I try very hard not to judge those women and girls that behave like that. They're teetering on the impossible tight rope. Trying to fit in, trying to be liked, wanted, loved. Are they letting the side down? No. Well, no more than I have, and still do, with various behaviours. But it doesn't matter because the side can't win.

    The point that there shouldn't even be sides is kinda moot.

    And yes, I know men face challenges too, I don't pretend for a minute that they don't. But just in a sexual context and the sexual behaviour dolfette is talking about women cannot win - I've been learning that lesson for about 30 of my 36 years.
     
  7. B_subgirrl

    B_subgirrl New Member

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    Bloody brilliant post MB. Very well said.
     
  8. Daisy

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    I feel betrayed by women who don't like other women they view as a threat. If you have a certain level of intelligence or attractiveness some feel the need to take you down a notch. It goes along with what Manly Banisters said about the impossible standard to which women have to live up to with men, but women hold eachother to the same impossible standard.

    1. Be pretty, but not prettier than me (she's a slut or sh'es ugly)
    2. Wear nice clothes but don't look better, or more stylish than me (who does she think she is?)
    3. Be smart but not too smart ( again..who does she think she is??)
    4. Be nice but not too nice (she's weak)

    I am definitely generalizing but I think that women are far more harsh to each other than any man is to the average woman.
     
  9. ManlyBanisters

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    And why do you think that is, seaside?
     
  10. DasLeezard

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    I cut out the most of it and avoid other women in general. I'm just tired of being threatened with death every time any one of my buddies gets a girlfriend, and she gets pissed because I'm hanging out with 'her man'
     
  11. Gillette

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    I feel betrayed as a woman by other women. Absolutely.

    Especially so when they are inclined to remind men that every woman is different in bed and out but then turn around pushing an agenda to make "our" life better under the misconception that "we" think alike.

    I don't find another individual's sexual behaviour betrays me in any way. Why should I?
     
  12. dolfette

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    which is pretty much why i asked.

    as mb said, it's a trap it's tempting to fall into.
    to feel like they have a duty to support the cause.
     
  13. naughty

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    Workin' up a good pot of mad!

    I definitely agree with this assessment. I think it may be because women have been told by no uncertain terms that they are less than. There are cultures where girl children are still left to die . WHen you dont feel good about yourself, you know you arent going to feel that way about others of your own kind.
     
  14. petite

    petite New Member

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    I do think it's sexist to expect just women to stand up for feminism just because their female (and because I think it's something men should stand up for also because I feel that it's the right thing to do and they are just as capable of doing the right thing as women are). From what I've seen, a lot of women are anti-feminist, and I think it's a sexist perspective to expect that just because they're female, they should be a feminist, too.

    I do get annoyed by people, male or female, who present themselves in an overtly sexual way, like you seem to be describing, or seem to only see the world through "sex glasses," people who present themselves as two-dimensional caricatures of the oversexed hunk/kitten. I can't help but roll my eyes at them, but there's a deeper part of me that feels very sorry for them. It makes me wonder why they don't see themselves as more multi-dimensional, why they have to act like they need to "seduce" everyone, why they feel that this is the best way to approach the world. I think it's a different kind of social awkwardness than shyness, but similar, like they're afraid that if people don't find them "sexy" then they have nothing else to offer, or people won't like what they see without the "sexiness" presented first.

    I've experienced this as well and I don't know the reason why it is this way. I might have more insight into the motivation if I felt the desire to do those sorts of things, but I don't. It's just plain confusing behavior to me. It's just something I've also observed some women doing to each other.
     
    #14 petite, Jul 17, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2010
  15. orangecloud

    orangecloud New Member

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    You've got to be joking. Most women are certainly not intimidated by women who are more intelligent than them. If anything, it's the opposite. They admire them and try to emulate them.
     
  16. IntoxicatingToxin

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    I never feel betrayed, no. Ashamed to be a woman sometimes, yes. But then I remind myself... I'm a WOMAN. Females who act like dolfette described are not women, nor are they ladies. Chicks, girls, maybe. Not women.
     
  17. Gillette

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    I don't feel sorry for them. Unless I'm in a long term relationship or very close friends with someone I'm only getting a snippet of their lives and if their behaviour doesn't mesh with what I like then we'll never get that close.

    Basically that oversexed display may only represent what that person felt like being at that moment. Just a snippet. I think most of us have a diverse wardrobe to go along with our diverse and sometimes perverse moods. Thigh high fuck me boot wearing me with my ass in a man's lap on a Saturday night is the same woman who will stomp the heel of said thigh high fuck me boots onto the arch of the foot of any man attempting an unsolicited grind or grope that same Saturday night. She's also the same me who wore jeans and a t-shirt liberally dusted with cat hair while she ran errands Saturday afternoon. She's the same me that wears bikinis for maximum tanning despite my mother's disapproval (You think I'm too fat and I look like a hooker? Fuck you very much.), the same me who wears a haute ball gown and jewels when I want to sparkle & the same me who sits in funky PJs (also coated with cat hair) and posts what I post on this board. Me, who I want to be at any given moment in time.

    I might feel sorry for a stepford-like woman who dressed and behaved motivated solely to please the real or imagined desires of other people. But then I'm only seeing that person in that moment. Unless she explains why she dresses or behaves a certain way I wouldn't know why so I've no reason to feel sorry for her or judge her at all.
     
  18. ManlyBanisters

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    This attitude fucks me right off. You think you are better than certain types of women because they don't behave they way you think they should. So much so that you deny their right to be 'women'. Who the fuck are you to say that about anyone?

    If anything the ladette / 'girl power' phenomenon of women being more overtly sexual (bump'n'grinding back on the dance floor, owning and responding to a wolf whistle) is a direct consequence of feminism. It is young women grabbing male sexual aggression and turning back on men, saying 'we are allowed to like this, we are allowed to be sexual too, we are not intimidated by this, we can take control of this'.

    Like I said earlier, there is no response to male sexual aggression that all of society considers 'correct'. There is no winning. There is already a backlash against the ladette that she is somehow disgusting and not 'feminine'. But, again as I said earlier, that's just one way to fall off the impossible tightrope. The best thing we could all do is quit fucking judging.

    "Females who act like dolfette described are not women" - how fucking dare you!!
     
  19. B_ILIW

    B_ILIW New Member

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    feminism comes in different strands.

    Some feminists wouldn't have a problem with women acting slutty, or being suggestive.

    I think because society now is more sexually open, it's just an extension of that trend.
     
  20. D_Sparroe Spongecaques

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    I absolutely agree....
     
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