do you ever feel betrayed by other women?

[Wish-4-8]

This thread is absolutly fascinating.

It is young women grabbing male sexual aggression and turning back on men, saying 'we are allowed to like this, we are allowed to be sexual too, we are not intimidated by this, we can take control of this'.

Question MB. Then should the label "slut" be taken as a badge of honor since you get to define what that word is for yourself, regardless of what other people think? Let me put this in a contex:

I used to listen to a radio talk show, The Tom Lykeys show, which was misogyny at its worse. I listened for entertainment value, but it got boring real fast. He took pride in being called an asshole for basically "pumping and dumping" and found that to be a compliment. As shallow as his viewpoints were, (and fake BTW), he tried to take a negative stigma and use it as a term for male empowerment.

I know how you all hate the word slut. But do you see what I am trying to ask?

 

[petite]

There's a difference between the women who own their sexuality like MB described, who reject the double standards and the virgin/whore dichotomy and refuse to pretend that real women aren't also complicated and sexual beings, just like men, and the women who seem to be victims of misogynistic thinking, the ones who have internalized the belief that their primary value is their beauty and their sexuality and who demonstrate that in the way that they behave. In both cases, those woman can be overtly sexual, but they're vastly different in the way that they do it.

For example, a women who is overtly sexual but who seems to be the victim of internalized misogynistic thinking might be overtly sexual, but she might act very ditzy or stupid or dumb or like a "little girl" and giggle a lot at dumb jokes or pretend not to understand condescending jokes made about her in her presence, etc. I've seen a lot of women behave this way, and I know that they aren't that dumb, they're just acting like that. I don't see that as "owning one's sexuality" but I don't blame her either. I think she's a victim of our society and the messages we tell women about what makes them valued.

 

[SilverTrain]

This thread alone redeems all the shite that's been posted on this site lately.

 

[B_crackoff]

I absolutely agree....

I agree too. BTW, congratulations on the new red corset avatar.

It's made my night!:wink:

 

[B_subgirrl]

Question MB. Then should the label "slut" be taken as a badge of honor since you get to define what that word is for yourself, regardless of what other people think? Let me put this in a contex:

Actually, in the BDSM world the word slut generally is used as a positive and complimentary word. In fact 'badge of honour' sums up this usage perfectly. I much prefer this usage of it myself.

 

[bigdog83]

Honestly? Yes - I do feel a little betrayed by those kinds of behaviour. But I try very hard not to.

It's incredibly hard to be young and female - I remember making a right hash of it myself (and indeed not just young). On the one hand you are expected to be attractive, to eschew dowdiness, to embrace the generic idea of 'feminine', on the other hand you can't 'try too hard' (whatever that means) or actually be 'too sexual' (whatever that means) or have sex with any more or less than the right number of the right men (whoever they are) in the right circumstances (whatever they are). It's an impossible balance. If you get the former wrong you're a frigid, ugly dyke - if you get the latter wrong you're a whore, a slapper, a slut.

It took me a very long time to work out that you cannot win - so I try very hard not to judge those women and girls that behave like that. They're teetering on the impossible tight rope. Trying to fit in, trying to be liked, wanted, loved. Are they letting the side down? No. Well, no more than I have, and still do, with various behaviours. But it doesn't matter because the side can't win.

The point that there shouldn't even be sides is kinda moot.

And yes, I know men face challenges too, I don't pretend for a minute that they don't. But just in a sexual context and the sexual behaviour dolfette is talking about women cannot win - I've been learning that lesson for about 30 of my 36 years.

sure you can, its called not giving a $%^@ what others think and being yourself.

 

[bigdog83]

I never feel betrayed, no. Ashamed to be a woman sometimes, yes. But then I remind myself... I'm a WOMAN. Females who act like dolfette described are not women, nor are they ladies. Chicks, girls, maybe. Not women.

This attitude fucks me right off. You think you are better than certain types of women because they don't behave they way you think they should. So much so that you deny their right to be 'women'. Who the fuck are you to say that about anyone?

If anything the ladette / 'girl power' phenomenon of women being more overtly sexual (bump'n'grinding back on the dance floor, owning and responding to a wolf whistle) is a direct consequence of feminism. It is young women grabbing male sexual aggression and turning back on men, saying 'we are allowed to like this, we are allowed to be sexual too, we are not intimidated by this, we can take control of this'.

Like I said earlier, there is no response to male sexual aggression that all of society considers 'correct'. There is no winning. There is already a backlash against the ladette that she is somehow disgusting and not 'feminine'. But, again as I said earlier, that's just one way to fall off the impossible tightrope. The best thing we could all do is quit fucking judging.

"Females who act like dolfette described are not women" - how fucking dare you!!

we can also start another topic on males. How if males feel betrayed. I think guys who give women all that attn, taking them out, never getting laid, listening to all her bs about how she cant meet the right guy......i think males like that arnt men.

water flows either way

 

[dolfette]

 

[dolfette]

I know how you all hate the word slut. But do you see what I am trying to ask?

i see it. i reject it.

 

[EllieP]

I've only felt betrayed by one woman. She was with the company before I came on. When I walked in the door the first thing she said was "Oh, great." She accused me of sleeping with her clients to get the business and all sorts of stuff. How do you defend against something like that? I wouldn't have called her that, but she was a slut. Yes, she was doing everything she accused me of doing including sleeping with the few clients I had at the time. She's gone now, and I kinda feel sorry for her.

She represented almost everything I didn't want to be as a lady. She had little use for manners, found herself more at ease with the carpenters helpers than the contractor, and yet she thought she could handle a hundred thousand dollar renovation by bullshiting her way through. I would have never accused her of doing anything unethical to get the jobs done, but in fact that's just what she was doing.

Don't know if that's where this thread was going, but it brought back that memory.

 

[fxc1100]

I feel betrayed by women who don't like other women they view as a threat. If you have a certain level of intelligence or attractiveness some feel the need to take you down a notch. It goes along with what Manly Banisters said about the impossible standard to which women have to live up to with men, but women hold eachother to the same impossible standard.

1. Be pretty, but not prettier than me (she's a slut or sh'es ugly)
2. Wear nice clothes but don't look better, or more stylish than me (who does she think she is?)
3. Be smart but not too smart ( again..who does she think she is??)
4. Be nice but not too nice (she's weak)

I am definitely generalizing but I think that women are far more harsh to each other than any man is to the average woman.

I absolutely agree....

So do you two and others believe this impossible standard that has been for women was put in place by men or women and who continues to facilitate its existence?