Do you have a spiritual life? If so what is it?

[D_Kissimmee Coldsore]

I feel like Leia speaking to Han, "If money's all that you love, then that's what you'll receive."

There is no need to equate spirituality with the supernatural nor with accepting falsity. I think the greatest part of spirituality is using mystical experience as a tool to better understand ourselves and others by revealing things that may not otherwise be apparent. Spiritual practice calms the mind, making us more aware of the world around us, and help us accept what happens to us with equanimity.

I also don't think spiritualism (not capital 'S' spiritualism) is a false creation any more than our concepts of right, wrong, justice, love, compassion, or any other human construct.

I don't think I understand this kind of spirituality then. Maybe in time I will.

 

[2322]

I don't think I understand this kind of spirituality then. Maybe in time I will.

Two things may help you understand:

Reality is subjective. If we were small enough to live in the non-Newtonian world of quantum physics, we would all agree that there are 11 dimensions readily apprehendible, that time stops when we move if we moved at the speed of light, that our world was obviously bombarded with particles which pass through anything and everything, and that our reality was composed of infinite membranes and planes. Here in the slightly larger Newtonian world, things appear to work very differently even if the non-Newtonian and the Newtonian worlds are interdependent.

Now let us also consider that we do not always know our mind. We have our conscious and the subconscious and the unconscious. We have our senses, emotions, rationality, and base functions.

Suppose for a moment that what is discussed in religion has really nothing to do with the supernatural but with what is inside our own minds. God may be a superego, angels our subconscious desires, and demons our subconscious anti-social or destructive desires.

In some religions, particularly in Buddhism, there is an acknowledgment that this is the case. Buddhism is filled with stories of demons and various practices designed to bring us closer to the good spirits while repelling the bad spirits. The thing is, there are no spirits in and of themselves in some sects of Buddhism. The gods and demons are all part of us, part of our own minds and cultivating the good ones while limiting the effects of the bad ones is what Buddhists strive for. They are not supernatural entities, but our manifestations of our own conscious, subconscious, and unconscious desires. This is part of the reason why Buddhism is of such interest to psychologists. If a Buddhist sees a demon then the Buddhist knows the demon is part of his own mind, a hallucination. The Buddhist accepts that the demon may not be ever destroyed but perhaps it can be contained and accepted as a manifestation of bad or base desires.

Buddhist enlightenment is not the attainment of heaven on earth or anything like it. It is awareness of all of one's desires and complete awareness of the world outside of us. It is perpetual awareness of who we are, where we are, and full knowledge of ourselves so that we may better function in the world, accepting what we cannot change and working to make better what we can. There is no god to cling to, no demon to frighten us because all of those things are illusions created by our own mind to deal with the world around us. When those things are gone, there is no need to acknowledge them any longer.

It's like a monster in the closet. A frightened child sees the monster in the closet, can make out its form, may even hear it rustle or rumble. The child knows the monster is there because he can see and hear it. Buddhism asks us to get out of bed and go look, not call for mommy and daddy. In the beginning of Buddhist practice, monsters like these are acknowledged because they are very common experiences to all of us, archetypes, inhabitants of the collective unconscious which we all have buried deep in our psyches. To prematurely deny their existence does not make them go away any more than mommy saying to the child, "There are no such things as monsters! Go to sleep!," makes the child worry less about the monster. The only way to dispel the monster is to confront it. Buddhism says that we will acknowledge our monsters, embrace them, identify them and know where they come from and what their weaknesses are, and only then, when we're ready, can we confront them. The child wants mommy to turn on the light and go look in the closet but Buddhism says that doesn't work. There are no mommies in the real world with special monster-dissolving powers. If you want to defeat that monster, YOU have to do it. So the intrepid child must find a weapon, maybe a ruler for a sword. The intrepid Buddhist finds a mantra or has a realization that allows him to look the monster in the eye and say, "I accept you as part of my imagination and of my psyche. I cannot destroy you because you are part of me, but I can deny you power over me." The child takes up his ruler and marches over to the closet and throws open the door, perhaps terrified, and with that the monster, as the Buddhist's demon, dissolves into nothing more than a fabrication of our own imagination. In time we become better at fighting closet monsters until we are old enough and wise enough to go to bed with the lights off and know that if we see monsters in the closet that they are only our own minds playing tricks on us. If we acknowledge what we see for what it is, no fear comes from it.

Psychologists and psychiatrists do the same thing with patients. Perhaps you've seen, A Beautiful Mind. These mental health providers cannot conquer our demons for us, only help us to conquer. A Buddhist teacher does the same thing. A good minister or priest or imam can do the same thing.

For whatever reason, mystical practices like reiki or yoga or having cards read or applying crystals can have very positive effects on our psyche for reasons which are not entirely understood, last I checked. Spiritual ritual seems to aid mood, increase natural opioids and endorphins while lowering heart rates. Perhaps these rituals recall something soothing we experienced as children or perhaps humans are just programmed to respond to gentle mysterious things with positive reactions. Whatever the reason, if you go to a witch doctor for a disease and all he does is wave bones and fetishes over you, you tend to feel better even if what he did does nothing to actually fight the disease. It is worth noting, however, that a calm and relaxed person's immune system responds to infection and bodily damage better than a person who feels worried or under stress; so, in a sense, witch doctors may not be entirely useless.

Our minds are fascinating things and to explore spirituality is to explore our own inner workings to the darkest recesses. Some Abrahamic religions have had splinter groups, most condemned as heretics, suggest that as God made us, so God is in us and to know God is to know ourselves just as surely as knowing ourselves will teach us to know God. This sort of gnostic philosophy has appeared from time to time and each time it has been repressed as a heresy. Mainstream sects of Abrahamic religions reject the idea that there is no supernatural entity floating around out there in the ether like a Platonic ideal. But if we decide that supernatural explanations are not rational, then we might just start looking for the kingdom of God within ourselves just as we might find nirvana within ourselves.

 

[JustAsking]

Jason,
I wish I could write like you do.

 

[earllogjam]

It's not a misnomer at all. Certainly the religions from which New-Age types extract a bit of this and a bit of that have traditions dating back hundreds or thousands of years. But Americans who treat those religions as "belief systems" from which to take the bits that appeal to them do not actually belong to those religions. They are like tourists bringing back bits of kitsch from Mexico, or like shoppers in a mall who buy a bit from this boutique and a bit from that one. Then they dignify their vapid consumerism with the name of "spirituality."

I've never equated New Age believers with vapid consumerism. On the contrary I think most of these belief systems avoid focusing on material wealth as a route to happiness.

I liken these New age Dabblers as trying new belief systems that "fit" or resonate with them spiritually. They are not stuck with the religions beliefs that they inherited from their childhood which often make no sense and don't hold any meaning for them.

 

[2322]

Jason,
I wish I could write like you do.

Thanks for that even though now I read it and see a whole bunch of better ways to say what I wanted. I'm terrible at editing my own work. I just want to get it up there and rarely look back. Sometimes I do.

Believe me JA, nobody complains about how you write. You're very good.

I've never equated New Age believers with vapid consumerism. On the contrary I think most of these belief systems avoid focusing on material wealth as a route to happiness.

I liken these New age Dabblers as trying new belief systems that "fit" or resonate with them spiritually. They are not stuck with the religions beliefs that they inherited from their childhood which often make no sense and don't hold any meaning for them.

I have to agree with this. What are religious sects anyway other than various assemblages of belief systems which have been hand-picked? Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and gods know Hinduism and Buddhism, all have various sects which take their tenets from various theologies. Some sects focus upon one tenet more than another, reject some tenets outright, or develop their own theologies. For each interpretation of a sacred text there seems to be a sect around to follow it. Eastern religions easily syncretize various religious beliefs and nobody has a problem with it.

Just because you like the sound of a subwoofer doesn't mean you have to buy all the other speakers in the system. Mix and match can be very satisfactory if doing so meets your spiritual needs.

 

[breeze]

Triggers of Mystical Experiences
{ in descending order}

Listening to music {classical
for the most part } 49 percent
Prayer 48
Beauties of nature
such as a sunset
Moments of quiet reflection
Attending church service
Listening to a sermon 40 percent
Watching little children
Reading the bible
Being alone in a church
Reading a poem or novel
Childbirth
Sexual lovemaking 18 percent
Your own creative work
Looking at a painting
something else
physical exercise 1 percent
drugs 0

" What is the essential indication of mystical intuition ..when it is expressed in terms of intelligence ? It is that divine love is not a thing of God : it is God himself "

 

[D_Kissimmee Coldsore]

Jason,
I wish I could write like you do.

You write very well, JA. But your sentiment is echoed. It was a very nice read. Thanks, Jason, for taking the time.

It's like a monster in the closet...

Psychologists and psychiatrists do the same thing with patients. Perhaps you've seen, A Beautiful Mind. These mental health providers cannot conquer our demons for us, only help us to conquer. A Buddhist teacher does the same thing. A good minister or priest or imam can do the same thing.

That monster analogy was very good. I just never think of 'spirituality' as covering psychological things, perhaps it's the 'spirit' word-root that stops me. But I understand what you were getting at now. As someone who has spent time with a counsellor I more than understand the benefits of such guidance and insight.

I have always been interested in the power of the mind and tapping it. In a sporting context I suppose it could be said I have even 'meditated' before matches, and always before the very best performances. So if that's my spiritual side, then there it is.

Thanks again for such a thoughful post. Sorry it required that before I cottoned on. I can be too literal for my own good.

I also liked the quantum physics reference!

 

[2322]

You write very well, JA. But your sentiment is echoed. It was a very nice read. Thanks, Jason, for taking the time.

That monster analogy was very good. I just never think of 'spirituality' as covering psychological things, perhaps it's the 'spirit' word-root that stops me. But I understand what you were getting at now. As someone who has spent time with a counsellor I more than understand the benefits of such guidance and insight.

I have always been interested in the power of the mind and tapping it. In a sporting context I suppose it could be said I have even 'meditated' before matches, and always before the very best performances. So if that's my spiritual side, then there it is.

Thanks again for such a thoughful post. Sorry it required that before I cottoned on. I can be too literal for my own good.

I also liked the quantum physics reference!

Thank you for the kind compliment. I hope it helped. Please also thank Earl. He's lead me to this among his other acts of compassion and friendship.

Spiritual practices can be beneficial for what we lack in our western consciousness. I think part of the reason we so readily dismiss spiritualism is because we're so programmed to rely upon the rational. When we westerners finally discovered that God was dead, psychiatry and psychology became the avatars of mental discovery. We gathered pills and therapies to answer what western religions could not because they too had largely dismissed and actively discouraged the mystical component of their theologies.

I think that's a mistake. Psychology is a very young science while religion is arguably the oldest. Does that sound strange? I don't think it necessarily should. Religion does share with science the desire to explain the inexplicable, offer reasons for the past and the future, predict future events, and explain why human nature is what it is and why we should influence it for various reasons. The great difference between them is that religion does not use the scientific process. Yet religion does have enormous experience in detailing human nature. I suggest reading Joseph Campbell or, at least, watching his interviews with Bill Moyers because Campbell ticks off myth after myth from completely disparate cultures all of which essentially describe the same behaviors and then Campbell explains why they do and what these cultural myths say about us. Even when divorced from the idea that one has to believe in these gods to recognize the essential truth in the stories, they still make sense and reveal much about our nature in great detail.

One of the more interesting myths is Ovid's Metamorphoses. That was retold by Shakespeare as The Tempest, and then later by poets like Shelley and Auden. One of the best interpretations easily accessible to modern viewer is the sci-fi masterpiece, Forbidden Planet where Caliban is finally reduced to being, "a monster of the id."

 

[D_Portelay Porquesword]

My father was a minister up until I left home at age 23. There were things that transpired in his church that are to much to write out here. Things that probably would be passed over as fiction or some sort of non sense.

All I know is when you are not grounded in some sort of positive belief system: the ability to be at peace around things that, for some reason, are very unsettling in your soul....it is very difficult to grab hold of that peace.

There was levitation both in church and at my parent's home (on the driveway), evil entities that took possession of people have spoken in front of me (the odor was foul), spirits have touched me several times, apparitions have walked right in front of me and I have to say....calling on Jesus ain't a bad idea when the hair on your head is standing straight up! LOL

YES I have a spiritual life and I am keeping it thank you very much!

 

[B_Nick8]

Spirituality goes to the very core primordial centrality of my being (and it's been this way since my earliest childhood). It structures my consciousness and attitudes (the psychic moments described by some of the foregoing posts are just small, low-level instances). It's not something that most people are aware of, either in themselves, others, or history, so the language and concepts to describe it are few and far between. I tend to think of the mass of humankind as existing in an autistic state, and this probably corresponds to the state of being described by the true religions that always teach of the separation of man from, and opposition to both his Creator and the rest of creation (i.e., the fall from grace in Genesis, the separation of man from the rest of the earth's living beings, save in Shambala, the need in the Native American quest religions for each man to "discover" himself and his true spirit, etc.)

The above is likely an early sign of psychosis.

Or, of cousins marrying cousins for generations.

 

[Pendlum]

What's important when someone says something like that to you is to acknowledge that it means they care about you and wish you well. Pay more attention to the intention behind the blessing and particularly so when it's heartfelt. Getting offended is not cool because then you're getting hung-up on the medium, not the message.

You're right, but I automatically react cynically to the whole thing. Don't worry, I don't yell at them or anything. I just smile and say thanks or something like it. I know it isn't the best reaction, but it is what it is. I would explain how I feel more, but I don't think it would change anyone's mind.

 

[2322]

You're right, but I automatically react cynically to the whole thing. Don't worry, I don't yell at them or anything. I just smile and say thanks or something like it. I know it isn't the best reaction, but it is what it is. I would explain how I feel more, but I don't think it would change anyone's mind.

Isn't that rather like someone thanking you in a foreign language and you becoming upset because they didn't say it in your own language?

 

[Pendlum]

Isn't that rather like someone thanking you in a foreign language and you becoming upset because they didn't say it in your own language?

No, because thanking you is just that, thanking you. With the good energy, they are saying that they are trying to manipulate my 'destiny', that they have that ability, however small it may be. Something bad could happen to you UNLESS you get this blessing from me sort of thing. It's like those stupid chain letters. Send this to 50 people are you will die! I've had people do the reverse to me too, try to put curses on me. Now I'm not going to say it was completely undeserved, but still. I was in a chat, and they don't fancy christianity and the like too well, and were talking about it. However, Wicca gets a pass, and I said that was stupid. I said it was the same thing basically, different package, different label. So some of them proceeded to curse me. Now after that I admit that I was mean to those ones, because I stuck around for like a month pointing out often enough that nothing that they tried to make happened has happened.

 

[eurotop40]

The more I attend funerals and listen to church music, the more I long for my lost catholic faith:
YouTube - W.A. Mozart: Agnus Dei (Coronation Mass in C-major K317)
YouTube - Mozart - Ave verum corpus - Vienna boys choir

 

[68306]

Kudos to anyone trying to shed light on the "Unspoken truth" of this world.

I'm trying to think of something to say that isn't an illustration of my own ignorance.

My father was a minister up until I left home at age 23. There were things that transpired in his church that are to much to write out here. Things that probably would be passed over as fiction or some sort of non sense.

All I know is when you are not grounded in some sort of positive belief system: the ability to be at peace around things that, for some reason, are very unsettling in your soul....it is very difficult to grab hold of that peace.

There was levitation both in church and at my parent's home (on the driveway), evil entities that took possession of people have spoken in front of me (the odor was foul), spirits have touched me several times, apparitions have walked right in front of me and I have to say....calling on Jesus ain't a bad idea when the hair on your head is standing straight up! LOL

YES I have a spiritual life and I am keeping it thank you very much!

Awesome.

 

[curiousvirgin]

avoid arrogance,anger,egotism, greed, & self absorption.
practice honesty, compassion and love and you will meet your spiritual self

fairly simplistic, just my take on it =)

 

[JustAsking]

Kudos to anyone trying to shed light on the "Unspoken truth" of this world.

I'm trying to think of something to say that isn't an illustration of my own ignorance.


Awesome.

Vesty,
I am not sure you could ever sound ignorant. Puzzling sometimes, but far from ignorant. I always pay attention to what you write, because it always seems to be coming from a brilliant but alien intelligence. So I am interested whether I get it or not.

 

[JustAsking]

No, because thanking you is just that, thanking you. With the good energy, they are saying that they are trying to manipulate my 'destiny', that they have that ability, however small it may be. Something bad could happen to you UNLESS you get this blessing from me sort of thing. It's like those stupid chain letters. Send this to 50 people are you will die! I've had people do the reverse to me too, try to put curses on me. Now I'm not going to say it was completely undeserved, but still. I was in a chat, and they don't fancy christianity and the like too well, and were talking about it. However, Wicca gets a pass, and I said that was stupid. I said it was the same thing basically, different package, different label. So some of them proceeded to curse me. Now after that I admit that I was mean to those ones, because I stuck around for like a month pointing out often enough that nothing that they tried to make happened has happened.

This is the great question of theodicy. This is the hardest one to answer for any believer in the post-Enlightenment world.