Do You Have Any Or Know Anybody Who Have Born Again Christian Friends?

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I don't have any friends who are born again. But my parents do. My Dad's close friend is and tried to convince him not to have surgery because "God would fix him if he just believed"
I'm sure you don't, but just in case, please don't think we're all that way. Your dad's friend sounds like the guy who was standing on his house roof as flood waters were rising. He prayed for God to rescue him. A boat came by and the guy in the boat asked the guy on the roof to get into the boat. The guy on the roof refused and said God was going to rescue him. The guy in the boat went on by. A second boat came along. Again the guy on the roof declined and said God was going to rescue him. Next a helicopter came along and again the guy refused. Finally the water got too deep and the guy drowned. He got to heaven and asked God why He didn't come rescue him. God said, "Are you kidding? I sent you two boats and a helicopter!"
God can send rescue by any means He chooses. That includes surgery.
 
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1225108

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Yes. My aunt. Lovely woman.
She does talk a lot when we speak. Oh well.
 
6

622675

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that you agree to disagree with but still are good friends?


Yes

Some of my friends are straight, some are gay, many are Christian

I also have friends who are not Christians.

I go to one of the most conservative churches in the area. Five years ago they would avoid any topic that touched on the topic of sexuality. This pass summer I met once a week with a room full of fellow church members who have gay neighbors, workmates, friends, brothers, sisters and children (along with themselves). They are struggling but they are making progress.

Too bad so many in the gay community are not working with an equal effort to know more about the Christian faith.
 

englad

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Too bad so many in the gay community are not working with an equal effort to know more about the Christian faith.

Well, when the religion oppresses you for 1700 years, it can make a fair few of us a tad wary.
 
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[QUOTE="levi101, post: 16888091, member: 62

Too bad so many in the gay community are not working with an equal effort to know more about the Christian faith.[/QUOTE]

So far, the christian extremists have not apologized to me, or other people like me, for all the awful, hateful things you've said about us. When you're ready to apologise and make amends let me know and I'll think about whether I wish to forgive you.
 

chancesare

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[QUOTE="levi101, post: 16888091, member: 62

Too bad so many in the gay community are not working with an equal effort to know more about the Christian faith.

So far, the christian extremists have not apologized to me, or other people like me, for all the awful, hateful things you've said about us. When you're ready to apologise and make amends let me know and I'll think about whether I wish to forgive you.[/QUOTE]

I attended the same very conservative church for over 20 years. Never once did anyone say anything awful or hateful. Misguided, yes. Hateful, no. However, while I was in the closet, I got plenty of awful, hateful things said about Christians from gay people, including good friends. There is this concept of justified hate in our world, as if you hate the right people, it's ok. Hate is hate, and I never felt it from churches.

I never said anything hateful, but I am sorry things were said to you to make you feel broken or bad or hated. I came to terms with my sexuality finally about two years ago. I always felt loved in my church, but I also did feel broken. It's not the same as feeling hated, but it does mess with your mind. I am sorry for what ever you experienced. Screw the church and just look for God. I go to gay friendly churches now.
 
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Well, when the religion oppresses you for 1700 years, it can make a fair few of us a tad wary.

Hear hear!

Every (monotheistic) religion seems to have a problem with sex between people of the same gender.
Those religions proclaim that a god created us.
So growing up and finding out you lust after and can fall in love with another guy...
That's odd, isn't it?

Unless that god is a sadist or just mean playing a trick like that - "I give you the capacity for joy but you must never do it" - logically there are at least two explanations:
- God is dead or has never existed; or:
- Religion has gotten it all wrong.

Christendom takes the view that all homosexual acts are sinful; Catholicism categorises these feelings as 'disordered';
The nicest thing I've read is we need to be treated with compassion.

FUCK their compassion.

Making people believe there is anything wrong with your feelings although they don't hurt a soul...
That's hurtful.
It's hateful.
Besides that it can feel belittling, insulting and condescending.

Offering love and compassion after being hurtful... Thats not being nice.
That's a sick form of powerplay.

And right now, as a grown - and Gay - man I can appreciate Muslim fundamentalists for at least being very clear and honest about their views. A beheading or getting thrown off a building is violent but at least that won't fuck with my mind. It doesn't tough the core of my heart or my soul.

All you religious folk that this applies to:

- Stop thinking about what I do with my dick, or my ass for that matter.
You perverts!

And especially to the ones that have children:

- Please be mindful of all of your kids that are going through puberty and realise they are lesbian, queer, gay, bisexual etcetera.

They need to love themselves and as their parents it's your job to teach them or help them if needed.


And yet I'm on good terms with my Born Again Christian aunt.

Sorry for this rant.
I'm passion out about... well... passion.
 
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622675

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Hear hear!

Every (monotheistic) religion seems to have a problem with sex between people of the same gender.
Those religions proclaim that a god created us.
So growing up and finding out you lust after and can fall in love with another guy...
That's odd, isn't it?

Unless that god is a sadist or just mean playing a trick like that - "I give you the capacity for joy but you must never do it" - logically there are at least two explanations:
- God is dead or has never existed; or:
- Religion has gotten it all wrong.

Christendom takes the view that all homosexual acts are sinful; Catholicism categorises these feelings as 'disordered';
The nicest thing I've read is we need to be treated with compassion.

FUCK their compassion.

Making people believe there is anything wrong with your feelings although they don't hurt a soul...
That's hurtful.
It's hateful.
Besides that it can feel belittling, insulting and condescending.

Offering love and compassion after being hurtful... Thats not being nice.
That's a sick form of powerplay.

And right now, as a grown - and Gay - man I can appreciate Muslim fundamentalists for at least being very clear and honest about their views. A beheading or getting thrown off a building is violent but at least that won't fuck with my mind. It doesn't tough the core of my heart or my soul.

All you religious folk that this applies to:

- Stop thinking about what I do with my dick, or my ass for that matter.
You perverts!

And especially to the ones that have children:

- Please be mindful of all of your kids that are going through puberty and realise they are lesbian, queer, gay, bisexual etcetera.

They need to love themselves and as their parents it's your job to teach them or help them if needed.


And yet I'm on good terms with my Born Again Christian aunt.

Sorry for this rant.
I'm passion out about... well... passion.


I like your passion or at lest your willingness to speak your mind.

But from what I can tell much of it is misdirected. You make a number of good points, but you are allowing evil to win if your comments are confrontational and inaccurate.

For example in Your Comment:
And right now, as a grown - and Gay - man I can appreciate Muslim fundamentalists for at least being very clear and honest about their views. A beheading or getting thrown off a building is violent but at least that won't fuck with my mind. It doesn't tough the core of my heart or my soul.

This view makes it clear that you have not considered the plight of a gay guy trapped in a Muslim culture. It gives reason to believe that none of your observations have real world credibility.

So is this passion or petulance.
 
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1225108

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I like your passion or at lest your willingness to speak your mind.

But from what I can tell much of it is misdirected. You make a number of good points, but you are allowing evil to win if your comments are confrontational and inaccurate.

For example in Your Comment:
And right now, as a grown - and Gay - man I can appreciate Muslim fundamentalists for at least being very clear and honest about their views. A beheading or getting thrown off a building is violent but at least that won't fuck with my mind. It doesn't tough the core of my heart or my soul.

This view makes it clear that you have not considered the plight of a gay guy trapped in a Muslim culture. It gives reason to believe that none of your observations have real world credibility.

So is this passion or petulance.

Thanks for liking my passionate words and I'm happy to learn a (religious) member of this site read my 'rand' with interest and took the time to respond. Some things I feel I haven't been able to make clear. Apparently my text needs some further explanation.
I'll give it a go:

Taking your retoricaI question at the end as a point to start:
I don't feel it's so much petulance as plain anger. I was pissed off when writing this. Anger because I DO know that there are kids out there today, growing up and still being taught that being attracted to their own gender is intrinsically wrong. This includes gay guys living within the influence of an Islamic religion. I've read back what I wrote - typos and all - and I'm underlining the lines from the end - where I feel I was VERY clear that I mean ALL people within a religious sphere and ANY religious sphere WHEN they make a distinction between same-sex and opposite-sex attraction:

"All you religious folk that this applies to:
- Stop thinking about what I do with my dick, or my ass for that matter.
You perverts!
And especially to the ones that have children:
- Please be mindful of all of your kids that are going through puberty and realise they are lesbian, queer, gay, bisexual etcetera.
They need to love themselves and as their parents it's your job to teach them or help them if needed.
"



So to make it clear:
* I was also thinking about "a gay guy trapped in a Muslim culture" just as much as of any non-straight person within a Christian culture.


I don't think it's very fair of you to quote three lines from the middle of my argument - and out of context - and then question the credibly of my observations on the basis of that.
* Obviously in these lines where I compare Christian faiths with Muslim fundamentalists I used cynisme as a way to make a point.
* When one quotes this part out of context that person might - unintentionally or not - make it seem like my meaning was literal.
* I also used exaggeration. A debating technique I think is acceptable when presenting an argument or a line of thought.


Was I being confrontational?
* Yes, absolutely.
By stating you feel it's "too bad [that] so many in the gay community are not working with an equal effort to know more about the Christian faith" that gives reason to believe your are being presumptuous, self-righteous and would like members of the gay community to convert to Christianity.
At the very least you were making a broad generalisation and imposing your values on someone else.


If I understood you correctly, you feel I don't know enough about Christendom to judge.
* I feel I do know enough about what it's like to grow up as a gay guy in a Christian culture to do just that.


Christian faith is oppressive to gays, lesbians and bisexuals unless and untill it teaches that inherently:

1. It makes no difference if you love either a man or a woman;

2. It makes no difference if you have sex with either a man or a woman;

3. It makes no difference if you want to spend one moment or a lifetime with a man or with a woman.


If you can absolutely argue your own Christian church teaches all these three points and without any reservation I will apologise when I've offended you. I'd be grateful to your church for teaching the lesbian, gay and bisexual kids in your community they are EXACTLY of the same worth as anyone else. Anything less just won't do.

So in stead of telling me I'm letting evil win and misquoting me, prove me wrong. I dare you to.
I have only three questions that need to be answered with a firm YES.
That's all it will take.

Best of luck.
 
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So in stead of telling me I'm letting evil win and misquoting me, prove me wrong. I dare you to.
I have only three questions that need to be answered with a firm YES.

I am guessing you are young and have been brought up in a culture different than mine. And I can guess that the last things you would like to hear are some stories from “the good old days”. However: ---

I have been on this site since around 2010. If you read back through some of my post you will notice that I am not a prude when it comes what guys should be free to do with each other.

I am in general agreement with your three statements and have been busy working in an effort to make these real options. But the three statements are much more complicated that you might think. And in each case it does make a difference. But that difference is the story that needs to be worked out in our culture.
============
1. It makes no difference if you love either a man or a woman;
2. It makes no difference if you have sex with either a man or a woman;
3. It makes no difference if you want to spend one moment or a lifetime with a man or with a woman.
===========================================
Just consider that for the first twenty years of my life it was illegal to even talk about same sex attraction. Reach out and touch something and you could be put in jail or a psych ward. And this impacted everyone’s thinking from cradle to grave

You should also know that this “gay oppression” was not from just religious groups. It came from places that had nothing to do with religion or Christians. Rather it came from a culture that enforces highly heteronormative rules. Without thinking or understanding what they are doing the world’s human population (nearly 85 percent) live and govern with a vested interest in seeing that no one breaks the rules set up to protect the heterosexual culture.

For at least 40 years of my life I could have lost my job for being gay. The powers that existed would have prevented me from getting and using my professional degrees. Hospitals and social programs would have ignored me if I needed their assistance and any documentation collected on me by the state, military, or civil system would have found some way to code me as gay and penalize me for it.

Bottom line is that heterosexuals (as a group) are highly bigoted against homosexuals. The reason is because we (gays) experience the world in different ways than they do. Religion represents just one part of our culture that has picked up on this and has used sexual difference to mandate their particular view of how people should act.

Professional sports are another area for homophobia. Also consider public education, the military, the family-- along with just about every other human endeavor. Each has allowed the overwhelming impact of heteronormative thought to use sexual attraction as a whipping boy. Not only are they afraid of gays, but they also like using select sexual issues as a way to make his/her self appear more closely aligned to the power structure (the good old boys).

If there is any question about humans being “broken” in thought and deed, the confused and inaccurate treatment of sexual choice should stand as a grand example.

It’s going to take a lot of work to convince many in the Christian faith that they hold the views they do about sexual choice, because "the devil" makes them do it.

**Religion: something you get when faith and reason have been corrupted.

101 Heteronormative Christianity.jpg