Do you know your ENGLISH GRAMMAR!?

Which of the following is correct?

  • Ill take a order of frenchfries and a salad please.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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D_Gunther Snotpole

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"Hello there, John. Did you have a nice week?" said Daisy.

Even the above sentence could be challenged, though one might be accused of splitting hairs. But I would never write it in quite this form.:cool:
One might argue that my problem is not with grammar so much as word choice.
 

B_Stronzo

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"Hello there, John. Did you have a nice week?" said Daisy.

I wouldn't write in that form either. I agree senor rubirosa.


Were one to be absolutely precise shouldn't the end read "asked Daisy"?

Spoogesicle said:
(Et ma bête n'est pas noire.)


Est-ce que j'ai fait votre connaissance monsieur? :33:
 

D_alex8

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Stronzo said:
"Hello there, John. Did you have a nice week?" said Daisy.

I wouldn't write in that form either. I agree senor rubirosa.


Were one to be absolutely precise shouldn't the end read "asked Daisy"?

And therein lies my original challenge that all the sentences could be considered incorrect. Stylistically speaking, one should not "say" a question, one should "ask" or "enquire". :rolleyes:
 

NCbear

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alex8 said:
And therein lies my original challenge that all the sentences could be considered incorrect. Stylistically speaking, one should not "say" a question, one should "ask" or "enquire". :rolleyes:

But because it was grammatically correct, that's the one I chose.

NCbear (who can be quite a grammarian when in the mood)
 

B_Stronzo

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NCbear said:
But because it was grammatically correct, that's the one I chose.

NCbear (who can be quite a grammarian when in the mood)

Sorry for the poor copy and paste but see 1b.

It's simply one referenced online source but it presents a more all-inclusive definition other than simple regulations of sentence structure.

gram·mar

[URL="http://img.tfd.com/hm/pron.gif"]http://img.tfd.com/hm/pron.gif[/URL] (grhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/abreve.gifmhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gifr)


n. 1. a. The study of how words and their component parts combine to form sentences.

b. The study of structural relationships in language or in a language, or in a language, sometimes including pronunciation, meaning, and linguistic history.

2. a. The system of inflections, syntax, and word formation of a language.
b. The system of rules implicit in a language, viewed as a mechanism for generating all sentences possible in that language.

3. a. A normative or prescriptive set of rules setting forth the current standard of usage for pedagogical or reference purposes.
b. Writing or speech judged with regard to such a set of rules.

4. A book containing the morphologic, syntactic, and semantic rules for a specific language.

In my studies I was told that a sentence (to be grammatically correct) needed to make sense. That 'correct' sentence is incorrect in my view since it constructs a question then has the speaker state rather than ask it.

Therefore (strictly speaking) I find it grammatically incorrect.

I never voted in the poll since I knew that was the sentence implied as correct. The 'said Daisy' struck me immediately as mistaken grammatically.
 

joyboytoy79

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alex8 said:
And therein lies my original challenge that all the sentences could be considered incorrect. Stylistically speaking, one should not "say" a question, one should "ask" or "enquire". :rolleyes:

I agree, that it doesn't sound pretty. However, Daisy did make a statement. Technically, then, the sentence is not incorrect. I agree with you and Stronzo that it doesn't sound correct, and is rather cumbersome. I wouldn't word it like that. If i was proofing a paper, i would suggest the writer change the wording. If i was grading a paper, i wouldn't count it as an error. Maybe I'm too lenient!
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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Having been responsible for editing for twenty years and now teaching English, I can say with authority that the number of Americans who have mastered grammar/usage/punctuation has declined significantly in the past twenty-five years. Matters of correctness in writing seem to be passe. I think the infamous publication "Students' Rights to Their Own Language" accelerated the decline. Since then, the natural changes in usage that keep the language viable have been lumped in with a discouraging disregard for standard English. It's rare that I receive a paper free of errors.
 

D_alex8

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joyboytoy79 said:
I agree, that it doesn't sound pretty. However, Daisy did make a statement. Technically, then, the sentence is not incorrect.
Stylistically, the sentence is questionable at best.

The question we were posed in the OP was:

Okay, the poll is to see just how many people ACTUALLY know the proper way to write a sentence (INCLUDING SPELLING) in the English language. So, just click which one is correct and find out if you're right! :cool:
From this standpoint, none of the answers is correct, since all fail to satisfy the stated requirement of being the "proper way" of writing a sentence. Clumsy, cumbersome usage that is rejected by multiple posters can scarcely be considered "proper". :rolleyes: My challenge is aimed more towards linguistic purists, though, rather than seeking to be (merely) anal. But the sentence as it stood would have been altered by me without hesitation if I were readying the piece for publication, whether as author, editor, sub-editor, or ghostwriter.
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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alex8 said:
Stylistically, the sentence is questionable at best.

The question we were posed in the OP was:


From this standpoint, none of the answers is correct, since all fail to satisfy the stated requirement of being the "proper way" of writing a sentence. Clumsy, cumbersome usage that is rejected by multiple posters can scarcely be considered "proper". :rolleyes: My challenge is aimed more towards linguistic purists, though, rather than seeking to be (merely) anal. But the sentence as it stood would have been altered by me without hesitation if I were readying the piece for publication, whether as author, editor, sub-editor, or ghostwriter.

Alex8, when you edit, do you find yourself often changing stylistically awkward phrasing? I am beginning to feel a twinge of guilt for imposing my voice on others while trying to get them to understand subtle language issues. Usually, I end up settling for correctness.
 

madame_zora

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While I love grammar, I would not suggest that I am anywhere near as qualified as some of our other members to analyse the finer points, but this much I do know with regard to the following sentence:

"Hello there, John. Did you have a nice week?" said Daisy.

Daisy first makes a statement, but then asks a question. In order to be in agreement, the last part of the sentence, the most recent thing said should be addressed, and that is a question. You can't "say" a question, so that is wrong. Word choice IS a part of grammar- we are all familiar with the awful Churchill suggested line. If it sounds horrible, then it is wrong. If the parts of the sentence do not agree, it is wrong. While there is room for debate, I would choose the first, "I love you Bob", as it is impossible not to understand. While the addition of a comma would be preferable, I'm not sure it's actually "wrong" without it because the meaning is clear enough as it is. There are some schools of thought that believe less is more.
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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madame_zora said:
While I love grammar, I would not suggest that I am anywhere near as qualified as some of our other members to analyse the finer points, but this much I do know with regard to the following sentence:

"Hello there, John. Did you have a nice week?" said Daisy.

Daisy first makes a statement, but then asks a question. In order to be in agreement, the last part of the sentence, the most recent thing said should be addressed, and that is a question. You can't "say" a question, so that is wrong. Word choice IS a part of grammar- we are all familiar with the awful Churchill suggested line. If it sounds horrible, then it is wrong. If the parts of the sentence do not agree, it is wrong. While there is room for debate, I would choose the first, "I love you Bob", as it is impossible not to understand. While the addition of a comma would be preferable, I'm not sure it's actually "wrong" without it because the meaning is clear enough as it is. There are some schools of thought that believe less is more.

I hesitate to split hairs with, MZ, but the comma in the sentence "I love you Bob" is necessary. If you omit it, the grammatical construction changes. Without a comma, the word Bob is in apposition and renames you; with the comma, the word Bob becomes a direct address.

It just occurred to me how pathetic it is that I am writing about commas on a big-dick site.:rolleyes:
 

D_alex8

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COLJohn said:
Alex8, when you edit, do you find yourself often changing stylistically awkward phrasing? I am beginning to feel a twinge of guilt for imposing my voice on others while trying to get them to understand subtle language issues. Usually, I end up settling for correctness.
The same people keep coming back to me when they want their pieces to be 'retouched' prior to publication, so I have to consider that I'm doing the right thing. Stylistically, I'm all for altering clumsy formulations, or at least - where students have been involved in the past - letting them see what more efficacious collocations and expressions may be available to them. Eradicating clumsiness is surely legitimate.
 

D_alex8

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COLJohn said:
It just occurred to me how pathetic it is that I am writing about commas on a big-dick site.:rolleyes:
You could always put a picture of your huge semi-colon in the gallery instead, if that would help. :rolleyes:
 

madame_zora

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COLJohn said:
I hesitate to split hairs with, MZ, but the comma in the sentence "I love you Bob" is necessary. If you omit it, the grammatical construction changes. Without a comma, the word Bob is in apposition and renames you; with the comma, the word Bob becomes a direct address.

It just occurred to me how pathetic it is that I am writing about commas on a big-dick site.:rolleyes:

Not pathetic at all, I love you for it!

As I said, I'm underqualified to address it from a purely linguistic standpoint, but it IS understandable.

I really never got the difficulty with the "Churchill quote" either. "That is something up with which I shall not put" could be easily rewritten to read, "I simply will not put up with that". Punctuation and grammar are tools to make clear the intention of the sentence, when they accomplish that they are doing their jobs to an acceptable level.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html
 

D_Sheffield Thongbynder

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madame_zora said:
Not pathetic at all, I love you for it!

As I said, I'm underqualified to address it from a purely linguistic standpoint, but it IS understandable.

I really never got the difficulty with the "Churchill quote" either. "That is something up with which I shall not put" could be easily rewritten to read, "I simply will not put up with that". Punctuation and grammar are tools to make clear the intention of the sentence, when they accomplish that they are doing their jobs to an acceptable level.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/churchill.html

I never argue with Mr. Churchill in language issues. No one, IMO, could use the language better than he. Even without the benefit of editing himself, he could come uip with zingers to put down anyone who crossed him. He had good taste in brandy, too, from what I've heard.:cool:
 

fortiesfun

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I'm surprised that no one is questioning the internal question mark in the quotation. While contestable, there are certainly many house stylebooks that would rule such punctuation outmoded. At that point, the difference between "said" and "asked" becomes important.