Do you know your ENGLISH GRAMMAR!?

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

There is little room for disagreement in punctuating non-dialogue, FF & Alex8. Trends in attribution, especially in fiction, have muddied the waters regarding how to punctuate dialogue, however -- e.g., whether to use the word said after every piece of dialogue (as opposed to other verbs of attribution or no attributive verbs at all) even if it's a question. FF and I both learned in our youth that the attributive verbs had to be separated by commas even if they were questions or exclamations; now we universally accept the end-punctuation of the quotation and eliminate the comma. I would disagree with any editor who wanted to put a question mark outside the quotation, however. As Alex8 astutely said, a question without a question mark is like man without a penis. Since the intent of punctuation is to recreate voice inflection, etc., from oral language to clarify and prevent confusion, I think any changes in punctuation should be universally agreed upon (unless remuneration is threatened).

Enjoyed chatting punctuation with someone. That happens rarely these days -- and for good reason.

 

[fortiesfun]

Surely that was the point, though, honeybritches?

I don't believe I've ever been called honeybritches in my whole life. This entire exchange is worth it for this appellation alone. :redface: Turns out your sword is mightier than your pen after all. Do I have to change my signature line now?

 

[fortiesfun]

FF and I both learned in our youth that the attributive verbs had to be separated by commas even if they were questions or exclamations; now we universally accept the end-punctuation of the quotation and eliminate the comma.

Of course, the universality of that solution is what I was questioning, in favor of placing a comma at the end of the quotation no matter the nature of the sentence, but I concur that the importance this discussion may be somewhat less than curing cancer.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I hesitate to split hairs with, MZ, but the comma in the sentence "I love you Bob" is necessary. If you omit it, the grammatical construction changes. Without a comma, the word Bob is in apposition and renames you; with the comma, the word Bob becomes a direct address.

Surely, John, an appositive requires a comma.

However, if one insisted on this phrasing form (because the rhythm was important, for example) I contend that most houses would insist on the comma rather than the question mark. The editor may run afoul of your exacting standards, but editors always win.

I wonder if you're right, Doc, er, Honeybritches.
I simply don't see it that often.

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

Surely, John, an appositive requires a comma.


Rubi, go back to your grammar book, and you'll see that appositives and other qualifying phrases and clauses may be with or without commas depending on whether they are restrictive or nonrestrictive. There is a huge difference in meaning between "my friend Rubi" and "my friend, Rubi." The former tells us which friend Rubi is, the latter that Rubi is my only friend. Your friend John

 

[Lordpendragon]

This thread is going to turn me into a grammatical, syntactical(,) and(or,) linguistic anarchist. Yeah, yeah, so I am half way there already - sheesh .

Please don't change the Av, honeybritches :smile:

 

[Wonderboy]

Eye downt cayr abowt grammer.

Looks kinda Welsh...

 

[Lordpendragon]

Eye downt cayr abowt grammer.

Looks kinda Welsh...

Cadwch Cymru yn lan. Danfonwch y sbwriel i Loegr! :wink:

Leibschon Lederhosen.

 

[fortiesfun]

I wonder if you're right, Doc, er, Honeybritches.

I may have overstated the point, but if I become known as Honeybritches to every smart person I know, it is worth it to get caught...

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Surely, John, an appositive requires a comma.


Rubi, go back to your grammar book, and you'll see that appositives and other qualifying phrases and clauses may be with or without commas depending on whether they are restrictive or nonrestrictive. There is a huge difference in meaning between "my friend Rubi" and "my friend, Rubi." The former tells us which friend Rubi is, the latter that Rubi is my only friend. Your friend John

John, I applaud the high wit of “Your friend John.”
Very nice touch, that absent comma.
Now, I think I failed, not for the first time, to capture my own point.
If you say, “I love you Bob,” “Bob” cannot be a restrictive appositive because the pronoun “you,” at least when not used in a collective sense, virtually never has an ambiguous referent.
So, “Bob” can only be a direct address, which, as you stated in your response to Madame Zora, would require a comma.
So there would be no case in which the absence of a comma would be correct.
Your friend Rubi.:smile:

 

[Aloha!]

Wow...I ACTUALLY made a topic that is talked in...that's never happened before...

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Wow...I ACTUALLY made a topic that is talked in...that's never happened before...

Hmmm.

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

John, I applaud the high wit of “Your friend John.”
Very nice touch, that absent comma.
Now, I think I failed, not for the first time, to capture my own point.
If you say, “I love you Bob,” “Bob” cannot be a restrictive appositive because the pronoun “you,” at least when not used in a collective sense, virtually never has an ambiguous referent.
So, “Bob” can only be a direct address, which, as you stated in your response to Madame Zora, would require a comma.
So there would be no case in which the absence of a comma would be correct.
Your friend Rubi.:smile:

In the absence of a stated antecedent, your comment is accurate. I was simply trying to make the distinction between appostives, some of which require commas while others don't. With that exciting distinction now made, do you wanna cam, Rubi?:wink:

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

In the absence of a stated antecedent, your comment is accurate. I was simply trying to make the distinction between appostives, some of which require commas while others don't. With that exciting distinction now made, do you wanna cam, Rubi?:wink:

Camera's broken, John.
But I'll watch.
Your friend, Rubi.:biggrin1:

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

Your friend, Rubi.:biggrin1:

Ha ha ha. Fuck,you.:wink:

 

[dreamer20]

Wow...I ACTUALLY made a topic that is talked in...that's never happened before...

The verb tense "is" should have been "was" and "talked in" also sounds odd. Perhaps one would use "discussed instead.:smile:

 

[B_big dirigible]

I would disagree with any editor who wanted to put a question mark outside the quotation, however.

If the question mark isn't part of the quotation, that's the only way to do it.

 

[Aloha!]

Are we still talking in it? Yeesssss? Then it's "is"

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Your friend, Rubi.:biggrin1:

Ha ha ha. Fuck,you.:wink:

Yours is a charming little comma, John.:biggrin1:

 

[D_Sheffield Thongbynder]

If the question mark isn't part of the quotation, that's the only way to do it.

Cetainly, BD. It was a question we were discussing. If the senetence itself, not the quotation, is the question, the question mark appears at the end of the sentence. Did John say, "I'm going to the store."?