Do You Like a Flutter?

[HazelGod]

Craps. Loads of fun, any usually the best player odds in the house.

Also, the only time anyone is likely to hear me say, "Coming out!"

 

[dong20]

Horse racing isn't as brutal as it is made out to be. What the national horses go through isn't any harder than what the cross country horses have to do at the Olympics (and yes I use to do eventing). No one says that that is cruel. Me and my boyfriend are trainers. My boyfriend is also a professional punter. Horse racing also doesn't involve rigging every race and has become quite honest in recent times. With that many camera angles, the stewards don't miss much.

I used to be a horse owner and by and large I agree with you. Whether the animals actually enjoy the event is questionable of course, we merely delude ourselves into believing they do. But....my point was that such behavior is atypical for horses the Grand National being an overt example of this exploitation for the sake of a public media circus.

Eventing is indeed harsh, much harder on horses that a 3 mile gallop on the flat, the injury rate is high (approx 1% per event - motorcycle racing being 0.25%) for horses and riders.

I never participated (wasn't good enough) but knew plenty who did (and still do). I suspect if more people were aware of the rigors that animals were put through in the name of 'entertainment', (the national being a media spectacle, eventing being a niche sport which perhaps in part explains why 'no one' thinks it's cruel) they may reconsider. Most simply turn a blind eye.

I think such events are a fine line between mutual co-operation and outright exploitation, naturally it's humans who tend to determine where that line falls, though I have had enough scares, bumps and bruises over the years to be reminded that it's not such a one way street!!

 

[Curious Gal]

Yes, but you can't blame (I don't think you are, but anyway) horse trainers/owners who have sub standards of care (as in view horses as pure money making machines and they will get that last cent out of them no matter what or how) and lump them into a cover-all category of racing people and say it is cruel.

Its funny, I use to be an animal rights activist until I heard all the crap they spin on horse racing. There was no-way I was going to help or support these people that were making statements and didn't have a clue lol. 99.9% of them couldn't tell a horse's head from its tail!

Eventing horses are by and large fitter than steeplechasers, who after all are just long distance gallopers (a lot switch to flat racing in the off season or in Australia alternate between runs for example) which is why (for them) competing in a 3DE is a lot easier than the horses that go around in the National and other long distance steeple chase type events.

 

[dong20]

Yes, but you can't blame (I don't think you are, but anyway) horse trainers/owners who have sub standards of care (as in view horses as pure money making machines and they will get that last cent out of them no matter what or how) and lump them into a cover-all category of racing people and say it is cruel.

No you can't. But then of course as you say, I wasn't.:smile:

Its funny, I use to be an animal rights activist until I heard all the crap they spin on horse racing. There was no-way I was going to help or support these people that were making statements and didn't have a clue lol. 99.9% of them couldn't tell a horse's head from its tail!

Oh hell, a significant % of animal rights talk is meaningless, sentimental twaddle. You mean the sort of people that say, for example; "well, a horse wouldn't jump a ditch it would walk 5 miles to get around it, (which, it's true most would) so making it jump is therefore cruel and thus show jumping should be outlawed". They make me mad too.

Certainly, racing isn't a typical activity for horses, being fundamentally lazy creatures. The question of whether training an animal to so something it would seldom or never do in nature is cruel per se is rather debatable. After all, one could argue sheep dog behaviour is purely a matter of training, hence atypical and cruel.

Eventing horses are by and large fitter than steeplechasers, who after all are just long distance gallopers (a lot switch to flat racing in the off season or in Australia alternate between runs for example) which is why (for them) competing in a 3DE is a lot easier than the horses that go around in the National and other long distance steeple chase type events.

Very true, for a horse to be competitive at eventing, especially cross country eventing it needs to be incredibly fit, as does its rider. If both are not then horse and rider risk serious injury over and above what would be expected anyway.

 

[Curious Gal]

While a welsh pony isn't bred to run for example, thoroughbreds and standardbreds are. So I would say that racing IS a typical activity for them. That is what they are bred to do. Heck, we have a foal out the back that as a 3 day old free-legged paced and kept up with his galloping mother. It's like saying greyhounds are fundamentally lazy (which they are) which means it is not a typical activity for them to run. But it is. You can have the whole predator-prey debate, but I don't think that that is what at point here.

You also said that eventing is much harder on a horse than a flat 3 mile gallop in your first post, to which I disagreed because an eventing horse is a lot fitter and copes a lot better (even over a harder workout) than a steeplechase horse because they are no-where near as fit. But then yiu agreed with me lol. I am confused.

The only cruel thing I see about the National is that trainers don't have their horses fit enough for it. And if none of the horses had riders on their backs there probably wouldn't be any falls either, 90% of the time if you watch it closely horses come down due to rider error, whether they were unbalanced or reefed the in the mouth. They should take note on how the Japanese jumps jockeys ride, they rarely interfere at all with the horse and look -shock horror- they hardly have any falls either.

 

[B_ScaredLittleBoy]

Sometimes I also play a game called Bullseye...basically a general knowledge game. Won £3 on it tonight. I'm known as "Brains of Britain" :redface:

I don't do that often though, its not a frequent enough win and some questions are really hard like who drinks the most water per head out of New Zealand, USA, Peru, UK, Argentina...

 

[2322]

What is a flutter?

 

[dong20]

While a welsh pony isn't bred to run for example, thoroughbreds and standardbreds are. So I would say that racing IS a typical activity for them. That is what they are bred to do. Heck, we have a foal out the back that as a 3 day old free-legged paced and kept up with his galloping mother. It's like saying greyhounds are fundamentally lazy (which they are) which means it is not a typical activity for them to run. But it is. You can have the whole predator-prey debate, but I don't think that that is what at point here. [/quote[

I suppose that's reasonable, though what I meant was that put a horse in a field (and mine was a Thoroughred gelding) they generally don't run around racing one another. Heads down is the predominant activity as I recall! Breeding them for being good at something doesn't necessarily make that thing they're good at natural, it just makes them good at it.

You also said that eventing is much harder on a horse than a flat 3 mile gallop in your first post, to which I disagreed because an eventing horse is a lot fitter and copes a lot better (even over a harder workout) than a steeplechase horse because they are no-where near as fit. But then yiu agreed with me lol. I am confused.

Me too.... I think it is harder on a eventer than a steeplechaser, that's why the training and fitness standards are higher, or rather, different in order to minimise injury and maximise performance. In other words because an eventer will be pushed harder it needs to be fitter. Being fitter doesn't make it less hard on the animal, just makes the animal better able to cope with a harder workload. I suppose it depends on how you define 'hard'. Maybe I worded what I said badly. If so, sorry!

The only cruel thing I see about the National is that trainers don't have their horses fit enough for it. And if none of the horses had riders on their backs there probably wouldn't be any falls either, 90% of the time if you watch it closely horses come down due to rider error, whether they were unbalanced or reefed the in the mouth. They should take note on how the Japanese jumps jockeys ride, they rarely interfere at all with the horse and look -shock horror- they hardly have any falls either.

I agree with the underlying cause of injuries but that doesn't remove the cause being people asking horses to do something they generally wouldn't do if left to their own devices. Cruelty is somewhat subjective though, I'll grant you, and I simply don't support the race any more. Until animals can tell us if they enjoy it, I doubt it will stop any time soon based on a balance of probabilities and it remains a moneyspinner!

 

[DaveyR]

I admit to enjoying a flutter. :wink:

When we went to Vegas we decided in advance how much we were prepared to lose on gambling and kept that money separate. We came away more than $2000 up.

On the same holiday we were on a short cruise from Los Angeles to San Diego, Catalina and Mexico. On the last night of the cruise we decided to gamble $20 each in the casino before bed. Immediately I won enough to settle our onboard account with a couple of hundred left over so I quit whilst I was ahead :wink:

 

[submit452]

Me too, but only in England so I could bet on the Oscars, its the only thing I can Handicap.

 

[simcha]

OK, this is double and the explanation is below. All of a sudden after ten minutes this appeared. WTF?

 

[simcha]

This silly board eliminated my post and I don't know why...

Anyway, SP, when I was reading your title to this thread I thought it was going to be about Atrial Flutter. I had a couple of Atrial Flutters removed when they were attempting to ablate an Ectopic Atrial Tachycardia in my heart. The two surgeries proved unsuccessful at treating the EAT focus and I live with it while being managed on medications that keep my heart rate in the high 60's lower 70's beats per minute.

Is "Flutter" British slang for gambling?

 

[Yorkie]

I used to bet on horses regularly but I haven't done for a few years now.
I lost interest when I had a long losing streak but I had some good wins occasionally.I backed Red Rum the last time he won the National.

 

[Yorkie]

Is "Flutter" British slang for gabling?

No,it's British slang for gambling. :smile:

 

[simcha]

No,it's British slang for gambling. :smile:

LOL! Spelling corrected.... Damn these wide fingers of mine! :tongue:

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

I didn't know they removed atrial flutter by surgery, I thought it was treated with medication. Eh, what they can do these days is marvellous, you'd think they could manage to stick and extra two inches on someone's dick easily

 

[Not_Punny]

Oh there are plenty of men longing for the day when that can happen... :biggrin1:

 

[Curious Gal]

Alright dong20, nice yapping to you!

Since it is my business it is always a bit of a sore spot for me, if people in anyway have qualms about racing etc, since so many do (and so many don't have a clue either).

We have horses that LOVE to run, but they are probably only about 1/4 of the ones we have. 1/2 of them don't really care either way, but I must admitt that the last 1/4 hate being racehorses, but they keep winning good money and are looked after to the absolute hilt, so we pursue with them.

 

[dong20]

Alright dong20, nice yapping to you!

Indeed.

Since it is my business it is always a bit of a sore spot for me, if people in anyway have qualms about racing etc, since so many do (and so many don't have a clue either).

It was only ever an expensive 'hobby' for me. I don't have serious qualms about racing per se, except when it's pushed too far, for the wrong reasons.

We have horses that LOVE to run, but they are probably only about 1/4 of the ones we have. 1/2 of them don't really care either way, but I must admitt that the last 1/4 hate being racehorses, but they keep winning good money and are looked after to the absolute hilt, so we pursue with them.

Mine used to like run too, usually when he wanted to as opposed to when I did or so it sometimes seemed! Horses may not be the sharpest tools in the box, but they're not without cunning, intuition and thus a well developed sense of when exactly to be contrary in order to (often) achieve the result they want.

I love 'em to bits, and miss mine - but I don't miss the bills!!