Do you stand for the Hallelujah Chorus by Handel?

[Principessa]

Standing for it because a king did 200+ years ago? Ridiculous!

NJQT466: The article does note that New York audiences don't stand for it. Perhaps that's why you and I have never seen it happen.

True, but I think Calboner may have hit the nail on the head. The NYC metro area does tend to have a large population of practicing Jews, as compared to many other areas of the country.

 

[Calboner]

I can't remember what I did during the one time I've seen it live -- I think I stayed seated.

Either that or I was jarred from my slumber and reflexively stood up. :biggrin1:

Actually, that is one version of the story of how the custom got started—the noise roused George II from his slumber and made him stand up!

 

[naughty]

Yes I do stand. I stand because it is an inspired work and because it is tradition. If others chose not to do so then so be it. But I shall be a traditionalist.

 

[LeeEJ]

Actually, that is one version of the story of how the custom got started—the noise roused George II from his slumber and made him stand up!

I thought about that as I read the account of King George II, and it really makes sense.

Of course, these days I'd stand up because I'd think it was postlude music; we played it often enough in my brass group at church as people were leaving.

(that was the only reason I went during my last few years back home, but that's another topic.. lol)

 

[SpoiledPrincess]

It's apparently a tradition in England too when it's performed in churches, as I don't go to church except for christenings, weddings and funerals I had no idea, I'm such a heathen

 

[2322]

Hmmm.... An American standing because a Hanover did... not my cup of Boston tea party.

Yes I do stand. I stand because it is an inspired work and because it is tradition. If others chose not to do so then so be it. But I shall be a traditionalist.

 

[Bbucko]

Standing for it because a king did 200+ years ago? Ridiculous!

NJQT466: The article does note that New York audiences don't stand for it. Perhaps that's why you and I have never seen it happen.

Agreed...not a Boston tradition as far as I know, either.

I was gonna say that it sounds like an Atlanta thing...

 

[B_tallbig]

I'm not religious , so i dont attend any religious festivals.

 

[Drifterwood]

It's a very noisy piece, don't you think? A bit too shouty for me.

I'm with Jason, I don't stand. But then I wouldn't go to a performance of it.

 

[jorpollew]

It may be true that many or most people who stand for the chorus do not think of the act that way. But that does not mean that the act does not have that significance: it means only that those people act thoughtlessly, out of social conformity, and fail to think of the meaning of their actions.

I respect your opinion, but I don't understand why you bring such a high degree of passion to this matter. After all, there are many customs that most people just do without questioning its origin.

For instance, shaking hands started as a gesture to prove that men did not have a concealed weapon in their coat sleeve. A post-sneeze "God bless you" was said b/c it was believed that the person was purging demons from the body. Although people do not cater to those theories today, most still willinglly shake hands and say "God bless you" as commonplace gestures. And I guess that I'd approach the "Hallelujah stance" in the same way.

I consider myself a well-informed person that doesn't do things blindly, and at the same time I bring neither prejudice nor passion to these harmless customs; to do so would seem like "a rebel without a cause".

It was a "WTF?" moment for me when the audience rose to its feet at the "Hallelujah" chorus. When I learned that this was the custom, I resolved never to attend another performance again (or to leave before the performance got to that point). I felt utterly betrayed...

Again, I respect your right to follow your conscience. However, why deprive yourself of a wonderful musical experience?-- and for what result? Couldn't your reason for standing be to just see the performers? Or, couldn't you, the "conscience objector", just remain seated with your eyes closed. Either way, you get to enjoy the purest form of "The kingdom of this world...", which is expressly what Handel intended for you and for all of us. I don't know if Handel would care if audiences sat or stood, but I'm sure he would not want anyone to boycott the Messiah or retreat to the lobby in the middle of a performance...and for what??!!

So, given the fact that this particular custom is so inocuous, I think that you should always treat yourself to a live performance. (Damn me and all the other king's risers!)

I confess that I'm the sap who gets a charge from the trumpet solo and second strain of "King of kings, and Lord of Lords..." And there is no one-- no way, no where--that would rob me of that moment!

 

[Calboner]

I respect your opinion, but I don't understand why you bring such a high degree of passion to this matter. After all, there are many customs that most people just do without questioning its origin.

For instance, shaking hands started as a gesture to prove that men did not have a concealed weapon in their coat sleeve. A post-sneeze "God bless you" was said b/c it was believed that the person was purging demons from the body. Although people do not cater to those theories today, most still willinglly shake hands and say "God bless you" as commonplace gestures. And I guess that I'd approach the "Hallelujah stance" in the same way.

I consider myself a well-informed person that doesn't do things blindly, and at the same time I bring neither prejudice nor passion to these harmless customs; to do so would seem like "a rebel without a cause".

Go back and read what I wrote, Jorpollew, and find where I said anything about the "origins" of the gesture. My argument had absolutely nothing to do with origins. The origin of the gesture, according to a somewhat conjectural history, is in King George's standing at the wrong time and thereby requiring the audience to follow suit. My argument had absolutely nothing to do with that. It concerned the meaning of the gesture, which I accounted for in terms of the general practice of standing for a particular piece of music, such as the national anthem. You have completely missed the point.

 

[jorpollew]

The origin of the gesture...requiring the audience to follow suit. My argument had absolutely nothing to do with that. It concerned the meaning of the gesture....You have completely missed the point.

Well okay then: origin of the gesture versus meaning of the gesture. Regardless of the semantics (and my alleged mis-interpretation of your posts notwithstanding), I DID NOT MISUNDERSTAND WHEN YOU SAID:

It was a "WTF?" moment for me when the audience rose to its feet at the "Hallelujah" chorus. When I learned that this was the custom, I resolved never to attend another performance again (or to leave before the performance got to that point). I felt utterly betrayed...

My issue with you is:
For whatever reason, origin or meaning there is, one should not deny his/herself expereincing something that s/he enjoys, especially when there is no beneficial outcome or harm.
Some people deny themselves chocolate and fast food in order to lose weight. Others stop impulse shopping to save money. Yet, you don't go to live performances of "The Messiah" for the purpose of....? Or, is the conviction of your silent boycott more important/satisfying to you than the music? That is certainly your perogative. But why "throw out the baby with the bath water"?

To some extent, you and I are on the same page here. I like the music, and so do you. I merely wanted to present a point of view that would "open concert doors" for you to again fully experience and enjoy "The Kingdom of this world...". Your personal conviction and passion for the music earn you the right to tear-up everytime you hear that phrase-- LIVE!! And I wholeheartedly purport and defend that! Peace.

 

[YourAvgGuy]

I always stand, if I am performing with my choir or another group singing it (yes, I am being a smartass!). I've never stood during this performance; I go against the grain. My wife, however, does stand when we hear it. Like some of the others here, I question the "why should I?" unless I am deeply moved. If it is a great performance, then at the conclusion I will stand.

And, on a side note... it would be difficult to hit those tenor notes and soprano notes sitting in full voice. WHOA!!!!

 

[Calboner]

My issue with you is:
For whatever reason, origin or meaning there is, one should not deny his/herself expereincing something that s/he enjoys, especially when there is no beneficial outcome or harm.
Some people deny themselves chocolate and fast food in order to lose weight. Others stop impulse shopping to save money. Yet, you don't go to live performances of "The Messiah" for the purpose of....? Or, is the conviction of your silent boycott more important/satisfying to you than the music? That is certainly your perogative. But why "throw out the baby with the bath water"?

I do NOT enjoy being among an audience that rises to its feet for the "Hallelujah" chorus. Yes, I can sit and stew while everyone else rises, but the whole business makes it impossible for me to pay wholehearted attention to the music anyway, so there is no point in my being there. If a church or other religious organization wants to offer a performance of Messiah as part of a religious observance, I don't begrudge it the privilege. Let them rise for the "Hallelujah" if they want to: it's no skin off my nose, because either I shan't be there or, if I go, I shall go in the same spirit as I might go to observe a church service, and rise or seat myself as the congregants do. What I object to is making a secular event into a religious and specifically Christian one after you have brought the public in, and that is what people do when they rise for the "Hallelujah" chorus.

 

[SSBrownBear]

I do NOT enjoy being among an audience that rises to its feet for the "Hallelujah" chorus. Yes, I can sit and stew while everyone else rises, but the whole business makes it impossible for me to pay wholehearted attention to the music anyway, so there is no point in my being there. If a church or other religious organization wants to offer a performance of Messiah as part of a religious observance, I don't begrudge it the privilege. Let them rise for the "Hallelujah" if they want to: it's no skin off my nose, because either I shan't be there or, if I go, I shall go in the same spirit as I might go to observe a church service, and rise or seat myself as the congregants do. What I object to is making a secular event into a religious and specifically Christian one after you have brought the public in, and that is what people do when they rise for the "Hallelujah" chorus.

Calboner - My experience is that "Messiah" is almost always a secular event and rarely performed as part of a religious observance although I see it excerpted all over the place for church services. Usually, if it's performed in a church, it's usually just another venue for the concert rather than part of the church's religious practice. I truly believe that standing for the "Hallelujah" chorus honors a tradition which is not religiously informed.

And it is, decidedly, a Christian work - wherever the location of its performance. The texts and the sources of the texts make it that way. However, its secularization in performance has taken most of that away and left in its place a beloved masterpiece that speaks to most in a musical language that has nothing to do with religion except as the listener chooses.

I'm a professional singer/chorister in the Washington, DC, area. I've performed and or attended many performances of "Messiah" over almost 25 years in all kinds of venues. Concert hall, high school lunch room or sanctuary/church, the audience generally rises at the opening bars of the "Hallelujah" chorus. I attended a "Living Christmas Tree" performance last evening (what we do for our parents...) which concluded with the "Halleujah" - I was taken completely off guard when everyone around me stood up. I had not noticed that it was listed in the program - the audience had risen before the music began. Interestingly, this was not the kind of audience I would have pegged to have been in on what is essentially a "classical" tradition.

I guess I'm in the it's a charming old tradition camp. I do know that in many years of professional music-making, I've not yet participated in or attended a performance of "Messiah" where the tradition was not observed.


SSBB

 

[LeeEJ]

As I sit here and ponder deeply on this subject...

I think the best reason is to wake yourself up and get the blood flowing through your legs again.

:biggrin1:

 

[Not_Punny]

Never had the opportunity, but if everyone else was standing, I would. (Hate to look weird)

Generally speaking, I only stand up for the National anthem and for pregnant or little old ladies on a train or airport bus.