Do YOU support the posties?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by D_Andreas Sukov, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    the postmen and women are on strike. do you support them? i do. heres why:

    Royal mail made £321 million pounds profit last year and they say they cant afford to pay workers pensions and wages. pensions which they paid into.

    So many people believe its about higher wages and i know this because ive been out getting people to sign a petition to show the goverment we wont take such crap, and ive had so many people going, "no, fuck the cunts" and "im poor, i dont care"

    so whats your view?
     
  2. Joll

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    My view is the UK Gov + EU totally fucked up the Post Office.

    They were making a big profit in 99. Then we had to implement onerous EU competition laws (design to break up monopolies, but also to create European Champions and a cross-border EU-wide postal market. grrr).

    Post Office were forced to deliver parcels for other people, whilst still having to provide a universal service, and do final mile deliveries for other people - also being subject to tighter regulation than the other companies. So basically, they had to compete with their hands tied behind their backs while other companies took their most profitable business.

    On top of this, pensions and benefit payments were no longer cashed at the PO using order books, but transferred into ppls bank accounts, further damaging Royal Mail business.

    The Post Office has suffered a huge decline due to all this, and huge loss of revenue, to the point where it's struggling to survive. Germany however, waited a full 7 years more before complying with postal regulations - giving Deutsche Post time to build up a massive lead, and become dominant in the EU postal market.

    Yes, I do feel really sorry for Postal Workers. But I also feel sorry for the once-great Royal Mail. Complying with EU rules has made service worse for the consumer, and stuffed things up for Post Office employees. :(

    We're ruled by short-sighted dickheads.
     
    #2 Joll, Oct 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2009
  3. D_Relentless Original

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    Difficult call Littlelemon, we have been regraded at work and people have lost at least 8 grand a year of their salary which has affected lifestyles and pensions and also annual leave cuts, because we are a service that supports Vulnerable people we cannot and would not strike as it is these people who have nothing to do with the actions who would be extremely affected by it.
    I can understand the Postie's action, but to be honest, its the wrong time for this, the economy is in a mess and i for one would be thankful i have a job. my opinion only though.
     
  4. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    If things are so bad it is felt a strike is warranted then yes it may be annoying and inconvenient but if the power is their to strike then i support that measure.
     
  5. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    i mildly agree with tardis. i cant be mad at "scabs" and agency workers. i would like a job too. however, it sickens me that profit is all they care about.

    i would be so fucking mad if i had worked somewhere for 30 years and all of a sudden im being fired with no pension which i paid into. thats part of the reason im doing this. i want to make a stand now. I have to admit im quite extreme in my leftist views but in my eyes the profit should be used to buff up the workers wages or pensions.
     
  6. Joll

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    I agree - there's a lot of pension black holes at the mo - my sister in law's has been affected too. It's awful to pay into something for years and not be able to benefit from it. Scandalous actually.
     
  7. D_Relentless Original

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    I agree LL, some folks have worked at my place for 30 years and have a couple of years to go to retirement to lose that much money which affects the final pension is totally out of order, but seriously, this country is that fucked up, the rich get richer and the poor shafted.
     
  8. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    Revolution anyone? :biggrin1:
     
  9. DaveyR

    DaveyR Retired Moderator
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    Sorry I may be out of touch after almost 5 years away from the UK but were the laws on pension funds not tightened up drastically following the Maxwell scandal?
     
  10. D_Relentless Original

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    Now you are talking :mad:. Lets do it before i leave this god forsaken hole LL:smile:
     
  11. D_Relentless Original

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    They always have a way around it Davey, with us, it has come from the government to regrade our salaries, take cuts, change our contracts, annual leave etc, the regraded jobs are about 8 to 10 grand less which affects how much pension is paid out in the final years.
     
  12. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    unless a major party changes anything soon, it could happen. i see people movements in the not to distant future.
     
  13. 123scotty

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    Royal mail made £321 million pounds profit last year====== hmmm what could happen to this? wouldn't be no not bonus payments to a few. why not reinvest the lot thats what deutche post have been doing. not just milking off the profit for quick fix bonus payments.
     
  14. Jason

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    Royal Mail indeed made a profit of £321m last year. This is a disaster.

    I don't think the media (or the striking postmen) realise just what a tiny sum of money this is. Indeed it might have been better if the Royal Mail had actually made a loss so that staff didn't have a delusion that there was some pot of money. As well as this profit last year the Royal Mail is sitting on a pensions defecit of £5.6b - that's billion, not million.

    The Royal Mail employs about 200,000 people. If this profit were distributed equally to the staff they would each get an extra £1,605 pa. However the staff are each sitting on a personal pension defecit of an average of £28,000. If the Royal Mail continues to make a profit (and it surely won't this year) and if it spends nothing on modernisation and if it plows this profit solely into filling the pension defecit it will take 17 years to get into the black. No private company could continue trading in such circumstances. The measures that the management and the government are presently suggesting are just for starters. There are years and years of pain ahead for the Royal Mail - and that's best case scenario.

    I recognise the hurt and pain of the posties. What they are going through is just horrible. But I think their union and the media have failed to convey to them the economic facts of life. I suppose it is possible that the government might decide it doesn't want a show-down now, but very soon there just have to be changes, and (at best) the direction of posties wage packets is going to be on a sharp downward slope. It is interesting that the RM seems to have had no difficulty in filling casual jobs on very low wages - arguably market forces do not defend the posties' wages.

    There is a lovely Irish saying "If you want to get to there don't start from here". Unfortunately that is the position that Royal Mail is in. If you want to get to profitability and decent wages don't start from a £5.6bn pensions deficit. Labour have meddled in the pensions sector (eg by taxing pension funds) to the extent that many industries have these usustainable deficits. They've meddled in much else with the Royal Mail. They've broken it. And there is no quick fix.

    I think the Royal Mail has been holed beneath the water line by government action. But there is worse. The best the posties can hope for is to work with the management they hate so that this or the next government doesn't pull the plug on a bankrupt industry. The risk is that there will be some form of privatisation which creams off profitable bits with new working contracts and sinks the rest. I think the union has the sense to realise that this is the case, and should be encouraging the posties to co-operate as the only way forward. Instead the union is sacrificing the jobs and pensions of posties on a suicidal strike. The Royal Mail is going the way of the mines.
     
    #14 Jason, Oct 28, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  15. Jason

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    Maxwell ran private companies. In these circumstances the laws on pension funds have indeed been tightened up. Basically they are all now money-purchase pensions, ie there is real money in a real pot. People in these schemes can expect a pension, though maybe not a very good one.

    Royal Mail is owned by the government. The Royal Mail has final salary pensions, which are typically excellent. These are ultimately guaranteed by the government (which is why the Royal Mail has not ceased trading).

    Final Salary pensions are common in health, education and civil service, all with black holes and all ultimately supported by government. With the state our economy is in the brutal truth is that the goverments of the future will not be able to pay. :mad:
     
  16. D_Relentless Original

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    So true ^, i know i keep harping on, but i work for the Government and the amount of pensions that are going to be affected by their actions of regrading most public sector jobs with a loss of each staff member losing 8 to 10 grand a year is downright disgusting, people who are due for retirement in the next five years have lost a hell of a lot of money on their final years, because their pay has been cut it affects the pensionable contributions of their final work pay, all the years of working and paying has amounted to alot of resentment. People who have to stay have had pay cuts and workloads tripled, yet the top bosses have managed to get pay rises on performance up to 50 grand. it's disgusting.
     
  17. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    +1. its so wrong. but ofcourse the bosses would dare cut their own wages.
     
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