Do you think it's finally time?

Mensch1351

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As I listened to the President's speech last night and watched once again how closely divided the nation is on so many key issues effecting all of us I was once again reminded that the vitriole we've heard from both sides eventually must STOP. It's tearing us apart and we are a weaker nation for it. The ONLY thing that seems to unite us any more is the Olympics and the Superbowl. (At least we haven't started any wars like they have over soccer games in other places!!!!!:smile:)

The day after Bill Clinton was re-elected President in 1994, I watched (yes he had a late night TV show) Rush Limbaugh say -- and I DO quote, "America held hostage -- day one!" I was stunned -- and I was deeply appalled. I think it was THAT day that I began to truly listen to the conservative messaging in a whole new light. And then of course came the rise of Fox News.

The message, fueled and fanned by the Conservative Religious Right began to paint the opposition (the Democrats) NOT as the opposition -- but as the enemy -- the enemy! And even as a Christian, many of my conservative friends labled me "in league with the Devil" himself because my views, especially on Abortion, Gays in the military, Capitalism, etc. were more progressive. Really? The Devil huh. And my Liberal friends went on and on about the "fucking" Christians! Really?!

Bill O'Reilly, Glen Beck, Limbaugh hammering away "Feminazi's" Libtards, screaming, yelling -- I distinctly remember Limbaugh saying, "these people need to be annihilated!"

Bear with me I DO have a point here. In 2004 I watched President GW in a speech say basically, "A vote for the Democrats was a vote for the terrorists!"

I've been telling people since 1998 that we need to start thinking "like a nation, instead of a nation of individuals." I'm tired of hearing the farmers go on and on about the evil government all the while accepting farm subsidy checks. I'm tired of how we love to whine and complain instead of trying to really solve the issues we're facing AS A NATION. As a Christian my big economic concern during the Bush years was no rise in the minimum wage (not even TALKING about it!) -- and 35 million people with no health insurance (and NO proposals for resolving it -- NONE).

As a nation --- we send our troops to spread Democracy and then the world looks at how we internally practice it ourselves and we wonder why they might scratch their heads!! We are AMAZED that the moderate Muslims can't put the lid on their radicals and then tout that "freedom of Speech in America" has become an excuse for a total loss of decorum and respect. At least (not yet) we're not blowing each other up in order to annihilate one another.

It's time to stop the "thems" vs the "us's" -- on BOTH sides. If Alan West thinks there are 89 Communists in the Congress he should be called into account to NAME them and bring charges. Michelle Bachman should be asked just "who" the "not REAL" Americans are we've elected.

It's too bad that only in tragedies we come together. As a nation the people of Texas experiencing drought need the tax help of the people from Maine, just as much as the people in New Jersey need the tax help from the people of Idaho!

Are we maturing? CAN we really, truly learn to think like a nation and stop believing in our hearts and minds that people who disagree with us can still STAND with us in the issues that matter? And where there truly are deep divides can we still put PEOPLE before PARTY & POLITICS!

What do you think!??
 

rbkwp

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What do you think!??


Was a time when i was proud NOT to be an American
Yesterday changed that .. somewhat
Impressed to
see the Qs, altho also thought it was pathetic that it had to be so
impressed that the CNN comentators were respectfully calling your President
The President, in an almost affectionate tone, respectful, like days of old
has not appeared to be that way, since his term, or how it used to be.
 

tbrguy

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As I listened to the President's speech last night and watched once again how closely divided the nation is on so many key issues effecting all of us I was once again reminded that the vitriole we've heard from both sides eventually must STOP. It's tearing us apart and we are a weaker nation for it....

What do you think!??


I think you're right.

You make some very important points, maybe it's easier as an outsider to see just how broken you're society has been looking over the past several decade.

I sincerely hope you do manage to put aside all the bitterness and rancour that seems to have infected your political discourse and act for the good of the country.


(Sorry for bringing it up, but you have had a home grown terrorist, he blew up a federal building and a lot of innocent people in Oklahoma City).
 

StormfrontFL

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I agree with all your points. There was a time when Democrats and Republicans could disagree but still treat each other civilly and hopefully we will be able to do so once again. I blame Karl Rove also for the current feelings of animosity. He seemed to enjoy pushing an "us vs them" idea. That way of thinking must stop. When we work together there is nothing we Americans can't accomplish.
 

EllieP

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At some point a small faction of Americans realized that those folks inside the Beltway had the same machine cranking out the same excrement year after year which was mainly used to fuel the machine.

The rich and the poor were given cake. The healthy middle paid for the cake. And that's the way it worked for a long time.

This small faction said "hell no we're not going to take it anymore" and refused to compromise because that's what got us into this problem in the first place.

This us vs them mentality without possibility of venturing into a middle ground is where we are now. What I'm hearing from members of the defeated party this morning are "where do I go to lodge a protest?" Not "well I guess we better figure out how to move forward."

And there's the problem.

Both parties have been hijacked. The Democratic has been piled on by any left-of-center agenda toters, and frankly, some of them are whacky. The whacky are in a minority but still flavor the party with a distinctive taint that's easy pickings for the other guys.

The Republicans hesitatingly welcomed the Christian evangelicals because of their numbers, but now religion has so many planks in that platform that even the "welcomed" Jews are expected to at least acknowledge their lord and savior. That same faith doctrine dictates personal biological functions regardless of religious affiliation or lack thereof. Couple all of that with other faith-based fantasies such as trickle-down economics and you have another whacko party that alienates even more of the rational thinkers.

As a rational thinker I refuse to be labeled by a party monicker. I highly resented having to register with a party in the state of Florida. I'm serious. I cannot be a no-party voter. But I have quite a few to choose from including Florida Pirate Party, which tempted me but I chose to go independent. But which independent: the Independence Party or the Independent Party? I'm serious! Look it up!

I understand the necessity and importance of parties, but when I heard the disgraced former Speaker of the House, Tom Delay speak after his conviction, and I'm paraphrasing, "I've only done what was best for my party."

Bottom line: pledge allegiance to the party, not the country.

No one makes an oath to a party when they're sworn in, however every elected official certainly seems to act that way.
 

cruztbone

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well, mensch, now is the time for the healing to begin. what are YOU doing to help? i am talking to all my GOP friends(yes, i have some) to console them and encourage them to continue the debate on important issues, not go away angry.
 

poultrygeist

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I'm somewhere in the middle politically speaking. I'm neither liberal nor conservative, but there are views on each side of the aisle that prevent me from being a democrat or republican. So all I can do is vote the person, not the party.

That said, I've never seen a country so divided as now. I'm fearful for my country of what's happening here and don't know if there's anything specifically I can do to help.

The last few weeks in the headlines it seems that one side of the political spectrum has been nearly namecalling the other. Now that the election issues have been settled, there appears to be more of the same and I'm reading of celebrities gloating and rubbing the other candidate's face in defeat. It's embarrassing to me as an American to be making a farce of entertainment out the election.

I don't know how the ends of the political spectrum can be brought closer together. But I can say that if I were a republican legislator right now I'd be hardly willing to budge on any issue I felt strongly about even if it were based mainly on the way some of the campaign was handled.

But again, that's just my guess and hopefully both sides can mature and put aside personal feelings for the betterment of the country. Let's keep our fingers crossed!
 

dandelion

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I'm afraid I see a fundamental divide between the two parties which is unbridgeable. The republicans fundamentally have set their faces against tax rises. tax rises is the only possibly way of funding the US government if it is to maintain major social policies. a modern state cannot function without major social intervention by government. This has to be funded.

Even if there are major social cuts, the current situation is already so bad I cannot see how government finances can be balanced unless taxes rise, never mind the republican parties policies for tax cuts. Republican plans cannot work.

From where I sit democrats are right wing. I dont see how anyone who believes in the principles of a responsible government which cares for its people could accept wholesale retrenchment of such policies unless there was literally no alternative. The Us is far from that situation, it has simply chosen not to raise tax income. If the democrats are a party which concerns themselves with the good of all americans then it has no alternative but to refuse to permit the dismantling of state social services. If the dems really are this sort of party, they have already compromised as far as is possible.

So no, I see no prospect for compromise. The US system of government was designed to only operate if comsensus can be reached, Which may stop tyrants, but in this case creates deadlock. All the time the issues remain fudged by useless compromise no real choice gets made and no progress can be made. It will be interesting if republicans refuse to allow a budget and the cuts arrive, whether they can survive the resulting recession. If americans like what results, then by all means vote for them next time.
 

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End of the redneck or tea party agenda as politically relevant. America, welcome to the middle ground.

I heard Mr. Romney facing defeat and what I heard was a man telling his party that what he had fought for them was over.

The GOP will now change, because really power is what it's only about.
 
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poultrygeist

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End of the redneck or tea party agenda

Honestly, I couldn't tell you what makes a redneck or a tea party member. I do know a couple of tea party members (so they claim to be) and I don't know if I'd classify them as 'redneck'. Then again, maybe I don't know what a redneck is either. :confused:

In any event, I'm not sure why it is relevant to call people names, either individually or as groups. That's what turned me off to this election more than any other in my lifetime that I can remember.

Then again, maybe I'm out of touch. :biggrin1:
 

dude_007

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The GOP will change, no doubt. This was a huge defeat. Their whole focus for 2.5-3 years was to make Obama a 1 term president. They failed and thus they will have to change strategy.

In my opinion, Romney lost because he gave in too much to the right wing nut jobs. True, there is a lot of red counties in the country, much more than blue...but the extremists will never prevail. The Republicans need to move back to the center and start cooperating or they might even lose the House in '14.
 

Mensch1351

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The problem is that most people are ignorant morons...

Come on guy --- a little more indepth thought and analysis??? What I'm seeking are some honest ways & feedback for Americans (including the ignorant and morons because they're OUR ignorant and morons) to take American (or even global) problem(s) and find a way to rise above politicising it to find compromise practical, reasonable and innovative solutions so we can lead the world to greater co-operation, peace and stability! We have an enormous knack for "finding a way" to make stuff happen (when we ARE united).

If we're all just a bunch of ignorant morons I'd like to find a nice flock in New Zealand and become a Sheepherder!! :biggrin1::biggrin1::cool:
 

Mensch1351

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well, mensch, now is the time for the healing to begin. what are YOU doing to help? i am talking to all my GOP friends(yes, i have some) to console them and encourage them to continue the debate on important issues, not go away angry.

And I appreciate that kind of approach. In this nation, the Liberals DO need the voice of the Conservatives and their thinking. And the Conservatives NEED the voice of the liberals to raise their sights and widen their world.

When both sides have a valid point --------- affirm it (give the devil their due if it's good for America!) I've often wondered what Ike Eisenhower (or even Ronald Reagan) would say if he ran into the likes of a Grover Norquist. In my fantasy Ike/Ronnie says, "...........and you are???" ".....and you want OUR elected officials of the PEOPLE to promise what????"
 

h0neymustard

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The GOP will change, no doubt. This was a huge defeat. Their whole focus for 2.5-3 years was to make Obama a 1 term president. They failed and thus they will have to change strategy.

In my opinion, Romney lost because he gave in too much to the right wing nut jobs. True, there is a lot of red counties in the country, much more than blue...but the extremists will never prevail. The Republicans need to move back to the center and start cooperating or they might even lose the House in '14.

I think the GOP is dead. Who votes for the GOP? Mostly white males. They are, as a group, shrinking.
 

b.c.

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If the GOP dies it will be because they refuse to grow. They will not grow if they refuse to adapt. America is a different America from that which was. They have to come to this realization.

Stop letting the lunatic fringe in your party dictate policy and politics based on thinly veiled racism and bigotry. Start realizing you need to be inclusive of ALL of America's many faiths, peoples, and persuasions...that this is not "your" country, but OUR country. Adopt policies, ideology, and positions that consider the needs and concerns of our wonderfully diverse and multicultural makeup, instead of those of a narrowminded few.

Move "forward" - not back.
 
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Redwyvre

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Actually, I plan to continue to hammer away on the GOP. There is plenty of work to do. For example Michelle Bachmann was reelected!!! There is no resting on the laurel's. As long as I have the energy I have no intention of aiding this country in electing another Geo. W. Bush sort of president. Okay there I admit it I didn't vote in 2000.