YHWH properly refers to God. If one accepts Jesus as the second Person of the Trinity, Jesus would be included in that, but the name Jehovah (or Yahweh) does not specifically refer to Jesus alone.
Does anyone actually still believe in God?
- Thread starter B_HappyHammer1977
- Start date
YHWH properly refers to God. If one accepts Jesus as the second Person of the Trinity, Jesus would be included in that, but the name Jehovah (or Yahweh) does not specifically refer to Jesus alone.
Jesus being the Jehovah of the Old Testament is, admittedly, Mormon Doctrine. Virtually every mention of diety in the O.T. is referring to the Son, who led in the creation of the Earth. He is the great I Am, the Alpha and Omega. He rules the Earth, his footstool. He exists in partnership with the Father as a separate physical being, the Godhead existing of God the Father, Jehovah the Son and The Holy Ghost, not as one creature but as three distinctly separate people.
Where did God come from? Why, from a Father and Mother, of course.
Remember, the universe is infinite and has been around for a long, long time and eternity never ends.
Where did God come from? Why, from a Father and Mother, of course.
Remember, the universe is infinite and has been around for a long, long time and eternity never ends.
madame_zora
Sexy Member
Discernment and Scientific Study of Visionaries in Medjugorje
" It is extremely noteworthy that the reported apparitions in Medjugorje are
the first apparitons in history to be throughly investigated by science. Professor henri Joyeaux { an atheist } headed a team from the University of Montpellier in France. Dr.Frigerio and colleagues from Italy did further investigation. The regularity of the apparitions has made for consistent and extremely reliable data. { note there has been a 3rd international commission of international experts }
Five alleged visionaries tested were found to simultaneously look the precisely the same spot{ even though no reference point was visible } within one-fifth of a second of each other when the Blessed Virgin Mary allegely appears. Such synchronization can only be explained by some external " object " holding their gaze-but one which those around them could not see.
During the same one-fifth of a second , there are simultaneous kneeling and cessation of eye movements. There is no eye movemnt during the entire apparition { from 3 to 45 minutes - note this has happened daily since 1981 }. There is also the simultaneous raising of their heads and gazing upwards while remaining fixated on a spot moving upwards when the apparition is finishing.
Two of the alleged visonaries do not blink at all during the appariton. The eyeball normally dries when there is no regular blinking { 15-20 times a minute } to moisten the cornea, but lacrimal secretion does not seem necessary during the apparition. The other alleged visionaries blink about half the normal rate. None of them blinks in response to touching the eye during the apparition { cornea sensitivity to varying pressure is completely absent], although they blink nornally at other times.
There is no reacton to pain during the apparition. When touched with an algometer, which causes a cutaneous lesion or skin burn , there was complete absence of sensitivity. The alleged visionaries react normally to pain at other times. { as measured by instrument probably }
The interesting results of a hearing test before and during an apparition showed normal hearing but during the apparition , an input of ninety decibels { equivalent to a loud explosion } showed NO reaction. { as measured probably }. Auditory evoked potential measurement { electrical activity of the ear } indicates normal ear activity with no transmission to the inner ear during the apparition. It is a measureable inhibition of hearing that is involuntary and inexplicable physiologically. {normally hearing loss CANNOT be reversed }
Electronencephalographic { EEG } tests confirm that the alleged visionariess brain functon is nornal and healthy. EEG tests rule out the possibility of epliepsy or psychotic hallucinations. The alleged visionaries are not asleep or dreaming either. Hysterical neurotic reaction or pathological ecstasy is also ruled out the EEG testing.
What EEG testing showed was that before the appariton, the brain waves are predominantly beta rhythm interspersed by alpha rhythm { normal conscious attentiveness }. At the start of the apparition , the beta rhythm remains for a short time and then is replaced by an almost uninterrupted alpha rhythm { in 6 people }. Alpha rhythm is mos toften observed during relaxation , in a state of expectation , or engaged in mediation. It also usually requires practice to achieve such a diffuse reponse. Because most of the brain is devoted to visual processing it is noteworthy that the alpha rhythm over the entire cranium was exhibied while the alleged visionaries had their eyes wide open throughout the apparition. CLOSED eyes would expected with alpa rhythm becasue visual stimulation usually produces interference with alpha rhythm.
................
During he apparition period , another scientifically inexplicabe event takes place. The alleged visionaries voices stop during the time that they are having the vision.
Even though all the muscles involved in speech continue {all mouth , jaw and throat muscles } the larnx { voice box } shuts off. This is physically impossible. The laryngeal function cannot be physically isolated from the rest of the muscles of speech. The larynx ceases to emit sound during the apparition - excep for one exception. In unison, during the apparition the alleged visionaries will be heard simultaneously praying " Who art in heaven , hallowed be thy name ". When asked they repot Mary in leading them in the Lord's pray.
The church has given medjugorje a kind of provisional approval. "
" It is extremely noteworthy that the reported apparitions in Medjugorje are
the first apparitons in history to be throughly investigated by science. Professor henri Joyeaux { an atheist } headed a team from the University of Montpellier in France. Dr.Frigerio and colleagues from Italy did further investigation. The regularity of the apparitions has made for consistent and extremely reliable data. { note there has been a 3rd international commission of international experts }
Five alleged visionaries tested were found to simultaneously look the precisely the same spot{ even though no reference point was visible } within one-fifth of a second of each other when the Blessed Virgin Mary allegely appears. Such synchronization can only be explained by some external " object " holding their gaze-but one which those around them could not see.
During the same one-fifth of a second , there are simultaneous kneeling and cessation of eye movements. There is no eye movemnt during the entire apparition { from 3 to 45 minutes - note this has happened daily since 1981 }. There is also the simultaneous raising of their heads and gazing upwards while remaining fixated on a spot moving upwards when the apparition is finishing.
Two of the alleged visonaries do not blink at all during the appariton. The eyeball normally dries when there is no regular blinking { 15-20 times a minute } to moisten the cornea, but lacrimal secretion does not seem necessary during the apparition. The other alleged visionaries blink about half the normal rate. None of them blinks in response to touching the eye during the apparition { cornea sensitivity to varying pressure is completely absent], although they blink nornally at other times.
There is no reacton to pain during the apparition. When touched with an algometer, which causes a cutaneous lesion or skin burn , there was complete absence of sensitivity. The alleged visionaries react normally to pain at other times. { as measured by instrument probably }
The interesting results of a hearing test before and during an apparition showed normal hearing but during the apparition , an input of ninety decibels { equivalent to a loud explosion } showed NO reaction. { as measured probably }. Auditory evoked potential measurement { electrical activity of the ear } indicates normal ear activity with no transmission to the inner ear during the apparition. It is a measureable inhibition of hearing that is involuntary and inexplicable physiologically. {normally hearing loss CANNOT be reversed }
Electronencephalographic { EEG } tests confirm that the alleged visionariess brain functon is nornal and healthy. EEG tests rule out the possibility of epliepsy or psychotic hallucinations. The alleged visionaries are not asleep or dreaming either. Hysterical neurotic reaction or pathological ecstasy is also ruled out the EEG testing.
What EEG testing showed was that before the appariton, the brain waves are predominantly beta rhythm interspersed by alpha rhythm { normal conscious attentiveness }. At the start of the apparition , the beta rhythm remains for a short time and then is replaced by an almost uninterrupted alpha rhythm { in 6 people }. Alpha rhythm is mos toften observed during relaxation , in a state of expectation , or engaged in mediation. It also usually requires practice to achieve such a diffuse reponse. Because most of the brain is devoted to visual processing it is noteworthy that the alpha rhythm over the entire cranium was exhibied while the alleged visionaries had their eyes wide open throughout the apparition. CLOSED eyes would expected with alpa rhythm becasue visual stimulation usually produces interference with alpha rhythm.
................
During he apparition period , another scientifically inexplicabe event takes place. The alleged visionaries voices stop during the time that they are having the vision.
Even though all the muscles involved in speech continue {all mouth , jaw and throat muscles } the larnx { voice box } shuts off. This is physically impossible. The laryngeal function cannot be physically isolated from the rest of the muscles of speech. The larynx ceases to emit sound during the apparition - excep for one exception. In unison, during the apparition the alleged visionaries will be heard simultaneously praying " Who art in heaven , hallowed be thy name ". When asked they repot Mary in leading them in the Lord's pray.
The church has given medjugorje a kind of provisional approval. "
I used to tell people that I was an atheistically leaning agnostic because I wanted to leave myself somewhat open to new ideas and opinions, as opposed to most people of religious persuasion who are closed to new thoughts and/or evidence that may or may not contradict their belief system.
I am of the opinion that one of the main differences between a "believer" and an atheist is the believers need to have a convenient answer, and/or name, for unexplainable phenomena, thus obviating the need for questions as well as answers. As an atheist I am comfortable with the big bang theory, for instance, as a logical explanation of the beginning of the universe. While we may later find a better or more complete theory it is certainly more tangible than a nebulous "god" creating the earth in a mythical 6 days.
I am of the opinion that one of the main differences between a "believer" and an atheist is the believers need to have a convenient answer, and/or name, for unexplainable phenomena, thus obviating the need for questions as well as answers. As an atheist I am comfortable with the big bang theory, for instance, as a logical explanation of the beginning of the universe. While we may later find a better or more complete theory it is certainly more tangible than a nebulous "god" creating the earth in a mythical 6 days.
While the concept of a jealous and insecure god came into the discussion early on, it seems to me that christian (maybe jewish) faith was mostly being discussed, albeit implicitly. I am not saying that all members of any group are the same as the fanatical elements, it would seem that a large number of Muslims are insecure, in addition to worshipping an insecure god. See article below:
Riot
Let me say again: if someone believes in a god and a religion that requires its faithful to do violence simply because they perceive offense, then their faith is by definition false. The above link is one example. In celebration of equality and diversity, I'll add another example: I am not saying that christianity itself is false, but the faith and god of someone who bombs a clinic (in the name of their religion) are false.
Riot
Let me say again: if someone believes in a god and a religion that requires its faithful to do violence simply because they perceive offense, then their faith is by definition false. The above link is one example. In celebration of equality and diversity, I'll add another example: I am not saying that christianity itself is false, but the faith and god of someone who bombs a clinic (in the name of their religion) are false.
To put it simply in response to the starting question, yes I believe in God and even though my life has been rather a mess at times I have never stopped believing fully. For a very brief time I drifted towards agnostic but that didn't work out and I realized when I stopped and gave it thought that I had always been taken care of even if only to the barest of levels. So, for me there is no doubt of God and several co-workers along with God who take care of the daily tasks of looking after each and every one of us.
There are those who say how can you believe in God as the Almighty considering the things I have been through. They point and say God took your leg and your dignity and blah blah blah. Maybe. Maybe my own behaviors took my leg. I know damned well my behaviors took my dignity. The upside? God gave me the gift of humility and lots of other things as well. No, I have no doubt about God existing.
There are those who say how can you believe in God as the Almighty considering the things I have been through. They point and say God took your leg and your dignity and blah blah blah. Maybe. Maybe my own behaviors took my leg. I know damned well my behaviors took my dignity. The upside? God gave me the gift of humility and lots of other things as well. No, I have no doubt about God existing.
I'm glad you have your faith to sustain you, Onslow. Funny, isn't it, how the fundamentalist atheists will screech that there is no god if things are going well, but will blame it on god if things are not going quite so welll.
I will say the same here that I say in the political discussions: you can't have it both ways. Choose one and stick to it.
Do you have a link to the study itself? I could only find people discussing the study, which proved nothing. Thus it continues to all seem pret-ty sketchy to me.
<!--QuoteBegin-DC_DEEP@Oct 22 2005, 12:00 PM
Funny, isn't it, how the fundamentalist atheists will screech that there is no god if things are going well, but will blame it on god if things are not going quite so welll.
[post=354256]Quoted post[/post]
[/quote]A true atheist could never blame anything on God because they don't believe that God exists.
That was exactly my point.
Republican or Democrat? How about neither.
[post=354294]Quoted post[/post]
[/quote]That comment had nothing to do with party affiliation. I know I will catch hell for this, but I think "party loyalty" is one of the most STUPID government ideas ever. My comment "you can't have it both ways" refers to political consistency. For instance? The bush administration claiming to support states' rights and spousal rights, then steps in when Terri Schaivo's case hit the news. If it is primarily the spouse's decision, the Florida courts had no say in the matter. When the Florida courts illegally stepped in, then the federal government illegally also stepped in, usurping the rights of both the husband and the state court. You can't have it both ways.
The link to the study is in medjugorje.org under frequently asked questions or something like that. I read it long ago. I quoted it word for word minus a spelling error or 2. I left out a paragraph or 2. { got worn out } If you can't find it send an email to the site and they will respond usually within a couple of hours. Henri Joyeaux has written a book about his experiences but as far as i know its only in french. Actually its only the tip of the icerberg regarding the evidence God exists.
Professor Joyeaux converted soon after the study. { he is a communist and was an atheist }
Professor Joyeaux converted soon after the study. { he is a communist and was an atheist }
GottaBigOne
Cherished Member
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2004
- Posts
- 1,035
- Media
- 13
- Likes
- 255
- Points
- 303
- Age
- 42
- Location
- Dallas (Texas, United States)
- Sexuality
- 99% Straight, 1% Gay
- Gender
- Male
I think the insertion on events in your life are totally irrelevent to the question of the actual existence of a god. Because you lost your leg does not mean that a god does or does not exist. It may mean that "IF" a god existed then apparently your having your leg is of little consequence to it. Also, the fact that you feel "looked after" whether you actually are looked after or not is equally irrelevant.
Also (try to help me understand) how is "humility" a gift? By this I mean first: how was it given and not attained by yourself. Second: Is humility always a good thing? i.e. how is it good if it is irrational?
Freudian slip?
Actually it's not. I checked out that website. The document you cite is a "commentary" on this study (which I still can't find) written in something called The Catholic Transcript by a Michael W. Petrides, who is (or was 12 years ago) director of the Psychiatric Outpatient Clinic's mental health services for Catholic Charities in the Diocese of Norwich, Connecticut.
