Does anyone actually still believe in God?

[D_Thoraxis_Biggulp]

He didn't - He just is. According to the argument He is the "Uncaused Cause".

It is generally taken, I believe, that before the Universe started expanding there was a 'singularity' and something caused a reaction ('Big Bang' perhaps) that kicked off the whole process, a causal chain. The Cosmological argument goes that this causal chain cannot be infinite and must have a beginning - therefore there must be a something that is itself not caused by anything else; religious philosophers have argued this is what God is. But of course it isn't a uniquely Christian philosophical argument. The wiki on it isn't too bad:

And while we do have the ability to simulate a Big Bang in a closed area, we don't have the ability to control the outcome to the point of creating entire worlds capable of supporting life. Nor are we able to create an entire spacial plane of existence. We just know how to take the base primordial matter and cause it to evolve, so to speak, from the surrounding energies.

 

[B_RedDude]

Yep! True human intelligence is demonstrated below. The rest of the arguments are just a bunch of egotistical bullshit!

The thing about us humans is that we get to a point, but know there is more which we don't understand, so we call it god. It is our hubris that we can not accept that our intelligence is limited. We are not content to simply leave things beyond our comprehension without explanation. Yet.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Yep! True human intelligence is demonstrated below. The rest of the arguments are just a bunch of egotistical bullshit!

And writing in large blue letters that you (and the person you agree with) are right and everyone else is wrong is what exactly?

 

[Load Lichfield]

"People with opinions just go around bothering each other"

~ Buddha



.. It seems nobody can prove anything, yet we all demand proof of something before we believe it. Are we really all still attached to our very limited minds so much, that we can't look beyond them??

Did the 'things' prior to discovery in our history not actually exist before they were discovered?

 

[Axcess]

He didn't - He just is. According to the argument He is the "Uncaused Cause".

It is generally taken, I believe, that before the Universe started expanding there was a 'singularity' and something caused a reaction ('Big Bang' perhaps) that kicked off the whole process, a causal chain. The Cosmological argument goes that this causal chain cannot be infinite and must have a beginning - therefore there must be a something that is itself not caused by anything else; religious philosophers have argued this is what God is. But of course it isn't a uniquely Christian philosophical argument. The wiki on it isn't too bad:

Some scientists think that the processs of Big Bang and Big Crunch is infinite . So our universe was formed with matter from a previous universe and so on . Matter can't be created or destroyed it just change. Others scientists think that the Big Bang is the only and the first one . I'm agnostic but I don't buy the argument of the uncaused cause . In my opinion everything exists by a combination of causes . Even random things happen by a cause , something push random things to happen .

 

[deleted298367]

Okay, I didnt have a chance to read the whole thing. But heres my two cents:

I believe in God. For those of you that don't believe in the Big Bang or God just always being there, here's a thought: We aren't supposed to understand. Trust me, I've thought long and hard about making sense of everything. It's not possible. Perhaps (just a thought) it's a 'test' as to our faith in him. If that makes any sense.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Some scientists think that the processs of Big Bang and Big Crunch is infinite . So our universe was formed with matter from a previous universe and so on . Matter can't be created or destroyed it just change. Others scientists think that the Big Bang is the only and the first one . I'm agnostic but I don't buy the argument of the uncaused cause . In my opinion everything exists by a combination of causes . Even random things happen by a cause , something push random things to happen .

The Cosmological argument also states that everything has a cause - randomness doesn't enter into it. One can believe in an intentioned deity that steers the universe or one can believe in random cause and effect - neither are outside the remit of the theory. The theory merely states that a causal chain cannot be without a beginning. That's the bit you seem to be disagreeing with. So, if the universe is infinite and "our universe was formed with matter from a previous universe and so on" where do you think it all came from? If matter can be neither created not destroyed how did it all get here?

I'm not asking from the point of view of having a smart answer or of trying to convince you of anything. I'm just curious to know if you have a theory, or if there is a theory out there you subscribe to.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

Okay, I didnt have a chance to read the whole thing. But heres my two cents:

I believe in God. For those of you that don't believe in the Big Bang or God just always being there, here's a thought: We aren't supposed to understand.

Nonsense! Why have we evolved these big intelligent heads if we aren't supposed to understand. Of course we have to try to understand - whether you are an atheist, an agnostic or a person of faith the power to use your brain to make sense of the world around us has to be the most important thing we have. Whether we ever get there or not is almost beside the point - but don't tell people not to strive to understand!

Trust me, I've thought long and hard about making sense of everything. It's not possible. Perhaps (just a thought) it's a 'test' as to our faith in him. If that makes any sense.

We're back to the Prankster God!! Look, I understand the leap of faith philosophy. But the God I believe in would rather see me make that leap with my eyes wide open - not tight shut. Blind faith is pointless - I'd rather look, question and have doubts any day.

 

[Axcess]

The Cosmological argument also states that everything has a cause - randomness doesn't enter into it. One can believe in an intentioned deity that steers the universe or one can believe in random cause and effect - neither are outside the remit of the theory. The theory merely states that a causal chain cannot be without a beginning. That's the bit you seem to be disagreeing with. So, if the universe is infinite and "our universe was formed with matter from a previous universe and so on" where do you think it all came from? If matter can be neither created not destroyed how did it all get here?

I'm not asking from the point of view of having a smart answer or of trying to convince you of anything. I'm just curious to know if you have a theory, or if there is a theory out there you subscribe to.

I don't have a new theory or claim to have one . Some scientists belief that the big bang is the only and the first one others belief that the process of the big bang and the big crunch is infinite without beginning and without end . If matter can't created or destroyed it only changes that means that matter always existed and will exist forever but it will change. In another words the chain of causation is infinite . I'm agnostic but I'm more inclined to agree more with the multiple big bang idea . Of course with the single big bang idea comes the question of what push it to happen and deists use the idea of god as the first cause.

 

[invisibleman]

Ok, a veritable hornets nest could well brew here!

Does anyone actually, really, still believe in God and/or 'a higher being'?

I think that we are all a part of the collective conscience of God. Maybe God is working through our lives--good or bad-- to teach us all lessons about living.

I ask, simply because it amazes me that with billions and billions of years of conclusive evidence to prove that a god just does not exist, millions of people still put their faith a book and a feeling.

Is it 'filling a hole'?

Maybe it is indeed all mind control.
Is it fear of not going to heaven?

We all go to heaven...and whatever you do in life and your life experience determines which layer.
Is it brainwashing?

I think all organized religions are brainwashing
Is it all of the above?

Yeah.

 

[ManlyBanisters]

I don't have a new theory or claim to have one . Some scientists belief that the big bang is the only and the first one others belief that the process of the big bang and the big crunch is infinite without beginning and without end . If matter can't created or destroyed it only changes that means that matter always existed and will exist forever but it will change. In another words the chain of causation is infinite . I'm agnostic but I'm more inclined to agree more with the multiple big bang idea . Of course with the single big bang idea comes the question of what push it to happen and deists use the idea of god as the first cause.

I know - I told you that. :wink:

OK - so let's agree for a moment that "our" big bang is just one in an infinite chain of bangs and crunches ad nauseum - that still leaves the question where did matter come from. How did it get here? Doesn't it require an explanation?

 

[Axcess]

I know - I told you that. :wink:

OK - so let's agree for a moment that "our" big bang is just one in an infinite chain of bangs and crunches ad nauseum - that still leaves the question where did matter come from. How did it get here? Doesn't it require an explanation?[/quote

If matter can't be created or destroyed it changes that means it always existed .

 

[ManlyBanisters]

If matter can't be created or destroyed it changes that means it always existed .

Then the question becomes why? (please don't say 'why not?' - that's a cop out)

 

[D_Carroll Condomripper]

I don't, and I've never seen any reason to.

 

[Axcess]

Then the question becomes why? (please don't say 'why not?' - that's a cop out)

I don't know why or can't answer that question . I don't have all the answers . Maybe because that's the nature of the matter ?

 

[quarrel]

Then don't people that believe in god owe us an explanation of how god came to be?

No, becuase I am speaking specifically of people who are insulting and demeaning to those who believe in God, as if they are claiming that the sky is pink. I'm saying that anyone who is that certain needs to explain how they can be so sure.

 

[timincm]

This is for some, self fulfilling. A dog would come up with explanations for and comprehension of its environment that are relative to dogness.

The thing about us humans is that we get to a point, but know there is more which we don't understand, so we call it god. It is our hubris that we can not accept that our intelligence is limited. We are not content to simply leave things beyond our comprehension without explanation. Yet.

Religion is a rather blunt instrument to explain all things. The age of enlightenment allowed for people to seek explanation beyond the pulpit. I have no doubt that humanity has benefited greatly as a result.

Wonderful!!! Finally a thinking man, someone who has looked at the concept of limited human perspective and the use of metaphor to explain the unknowable.

Your argument is almost a poem. It is compassionately clear and concise. It neither professes to know any "Truths" nor does it seek to expose any "Lies," just, simply and economically and rather beautifully, I think, states a different, logical, point of view.

 

[jack65]

If the "1st parents" had not stuffed up we would have no bible or conflict over it, the bible came much later on as a account of what had happened before, you could say the bible is the book of consequence.

A god made from spirit says " I made every thing that is spirit and physical" our science fellows say there was nothing then a big bang then we have matter shooting out from one point and this is what the stars and so on are made out of.

God said "the very heavens are being stretched out because of you" or for your sake,long before we believed or could understand it.
God said " the world is held up upon nothing " long before we believed that to be the case.
There are many many things in the bible that say in a simple terms what we are just starting to understand in more detail.

but the bible was not made to account for all the wondrous things that we are just understanding now, but rather to explain in terms we can understand one thing.
That we were and still are to young to understand the effects on the spiritual person from living in a physical state.

I think that one must realize the world we live in now was not what god wanted at all, it was us who in our wisdom decided that we should have the things we now have and it is us that continue to proclaim it by using.
Lastly ( for now any way )
I'd like to ask the Christians this, what punishment did the disciple get when he said that he would not believe until he sore the holes in the Christ?

These are my views only.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Wonderful!!! Finally a thinking man, someone who has looked at the concept of limited human perspective and the use of metaphor to explain the unknowable.

Your argument is almost a poem. It is compassionately clear and concise. It neither professes to know any "Truths" nor does it seek to expose any "Lies," just, simply and economically and rather beautifully, I think, states a different, logical, point of view.

Seems like a poor reading of what the guy said.

He said there is no God... that we made him up to explain the things we didn't understand... and that as our understanding has grown, the need for a God to explain things has shrunk.

Pretty much the exact same thing I, and others, have been saying...


That there is no God... that we invented God to comfort us by allowing us to pretend we understood that which we did not...
And to pretend we could influence those things we could not by praying to the imaginary sky daddy to intercede...

 

[JustAsking]

.... Perhaps (just a thought) it's a 'test' as to our faith in him. If that makes any sense.

Why would God want to test our faith?