Does anyone else find this offensive?

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by snoozan, Apr 21, 2007.

  1. snoozan

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    4
    For reasons that have nothing to do with anything, I somehow wandered into an internet webring/blogring/group of people into various forms of swinging and cuckolding. While I don't have a problem with people's chosen lifestyles even if I wouldn't choose to live them at this time in my life, there is one subset of this lifestyle that I fine really offensive.

    In different variations I've seen it called Queen of Spades, Mandingo, Interracial Cuckolding, etc. The basic premise is that white couples seek out black men to fuck the wife. I've found are bumper stickers and jewelry that say Queen of Spades, BBC (Big Black Cock) and other things of that ilk.

    Apparently, this sort of play is based on the stereotypes of black men's virility and supposed huge cocks. I even read a very nasty (to me) article by a white woman in one of these relationships confronting black women who don't like white women taking their men, saying, "we don't want to marry the black men, we just want sex."

    I find this interracial fetishism to be extremely racist and offensive. First, it objectifies someone based on their skin color. It perpetuates stereotypes of black men and their sexuality, the same stereotypes which regularly got black men lynched not too long ago. I also find the terms used to be offensive, specifically, Queen of Spades. Isn't spade a derogatory term for black people. Isn't mandingo another one that points to black "savagery" and/or slavery?

    What am I missing here?

    I do know that the gentleman I know that participates in this lifestyle is one of the most racist son of a bitches I've ever met. It doesn't surprise me at all that he would be involved in this because it would never occur to him that this is something based on how very racist he is. Or maybe he knows it, and he gets off on having black men do, what seems to me, something demeaning. I don't know.

    What do you all think? I know nothing about cuckolding and that lifestyle, let alone this BBC/Queen of Spades thing, so I may be way off base.
     
  2. SpoiledPrincess

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,167
    Likes Received:
    29
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    england
    I'm not keen on this, but all forms of fetishism objectify people to one extent or another. While it's purely on a sexual level that they're objectified I don't find it too objectionable, after all people into the bdsm life can go as far as to have another person as an actual slave involving collaring and even branding, as long as the way they're treating them isn't spilling over into real life it's just another sexual game.
     
  3. LemacST

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2007
    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes Received:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ca
    I am caught between what the two of you have said so far. Both good points. Hmm.
     
  4. Vestigial

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,423
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd be doing it the other way around. :p
     
  5. Athena

    Athena New Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    London
    I find it seriously weird that someone who is racist would want the object of his racism to fuck his wife. What's that all about? Perhaps this guy is a misogynist working out his hatred of women in a demeaning way; but then again maybe he'd like to fuck his wife like a black man or maybe he wants to be his wife being fucked by a black man. Maybe he needs to leave his wife out of it and confront his desires face to face. Maybe all of this is bullshit. I'm no psycho-analyst.
     
  6. blue_eyed_devil

    blue_eyed_devil New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    94
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ottawa
    From what i've heard this cuckolding is more about the humiliation of the husband, mainly having someone more virile than himself doing his wife while his dick is restrained. The strereotype about the balck men being more virile and more hung is perpetuated mostly by porn i think. So i dont think that its necessarily racist for the husband and wife to seek out a black man, just misinformed.
    MK
     
  7. tripod

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,249
    Albums:
    3
    Likes Received:
    460
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Statesville N.C.
    Hmmm... I agree wholeheartedly with you Snoozan. In the early 90's it was almost in fashion to have an interacial relationship, it seemed that all of the cool ass white chicks were fascinated by black guys and bored with white men. Then you have all of these white chicks that exclusively go for black guys and a lot of them are crass and crude about it... Hood Rats, MudSharks, Grey Girls... those are just some of the cruel names given to these white girls. In the South, there is no shortage of black folk like there is up North (except for the big cities) and a lot of white girls seemed EXTREMELY curious about black men. Most of these girls are now married to white, men some of them "went black and never came back" and some of them went on to build beautiful interacial families together.

    Queen of Spades? That is a new one for me... it is so politically incorrect I can't even make sense of it. Black guys don't mind being with a Queen of Spades and the white girls don't mind being called it. I was always under the impression that the term "spade" is a derogatory term and would NEVER use it in private or public... the word is fucking repugnant.

    The "Mandingo" myth is truly a pervasive one... it doesn't help that there are some HUMONGOUS black guys out there, some black men even have an advantage with that low flow priapism from the Sickle Cell gene that gives some of them skin bursting, crazy looking erections. Black men and women on average have naturally higher androgenic levels... which means more testosterone and estrogen circulating in their bloodstream. That makes many black folk more muscular, have a lower bodyfat, and be maybe more hornier (this has NOT been documented) which could lead to more enthusiasm in the bedroom and a better erection for men. They also aren't disconnected at the hips like a lot of white people... just watch the white people trying to "wine" during the Carnival festivals. Sex is all about hip movement and that gives black people an additional edge in the bedroom.

    So, it is not very difficult to see why white people are so attracted to black folk, it is due to their unique culture and genetics.

    The Cuckholding thing is just modern white men feeling their way around the "Mandingo" myth and dealing with the realities of black people's sexual prowess. It is a temporary thing... and when we, as humans, begin to transcend the notions of race and culture, we will have left the Cuckhold and Mandingo fantasies behind us.

    That said... I like to watch ebony porn myself... Lex Steele, Mandingo, Shane Diesel, Byron Long, Kid Bengala, and Mr. 18 inch all work with black women on something like a 50 to 1 ratio, which is RIDICULOUS!!!! In ebony porn... the actors are not anywhere near the size of these guys. The porn industry are feeding these stereotypes in a BIG way (no pun intended) The actors in Ebony porn match white actors much more accurately in body and penis size. Blame the mafia people! lol!!!!
     
  8. HotBulge

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,180
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    216
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lowells talk to Cabots, Cabots talk to God

    Very englightened... I also believe more bi/multi-racial children will help to alleviate those 19th & 20th century notions of race.
     
  9. auncut10in

    auncut10in Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2006
    Messages:
    709
    Albums:
    2
    Likes Received:
    1,707
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    in San Francisco until April, then back sailing in
    It does go both ways however. I have had black guys want my big dick just because it was on a white boy instead of another black guy. I guess to some extent, anyone having a big dick has been objectified purely for sexual satisfaction.
     
  10. Fattycakes78

    Fattycakes78 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Southwest
    Yes, i find it offensive. The whole "We dont want your black men we just want to have sex with them." Thats just fucked up. It angers me on many levels. To answer your question though, yes it bothers me probably as much as it bothers you.
     
  11. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    2,739
    Likes Received:
    0
    Fancy that. And here I thought it was only supposed to be them dastardly "fundamentalists" who were concerned with what other people were up to in their bedrooms.
     
  12. B_chinagirl73

    B_chinagirl73 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Australia
    Your LPSG'ers sure get hung up about the craziest things.

    Sex is not vanilla. It is not "pc".

    If fetishizing black men is bad, what is your take on bondage and discipline, submission and domination etc? Everything that is not purely sensual and involves the mind fetishizes to some degree.

    I know some people are down on white chicks who fetishize black men - and also the black men who buy the stereotype and take part in this kind of sex. But as a black guy I know says...oh I'd better not say it, it is terrbly politically incorrect
     
  13. WellHung83

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,324
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    62
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    It just sounds like another spin on the whole 'wants to watch his wife/husband fuck another person and get off' scenario. Of coarse this does take into account the whole 'black men are bigger' side of things with the whole fantasy, but overall I think that it is no more bizarre than say a black man wanting to see his wife get screwed royally by a white dude.
     
  14. Nitrofiend

    Nitrofiend New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    That is some dangerous ground you tread when you bring genetics into this. Care to produce evidence of this "low flow priapism", as well as your other claims? My interest is piqued.
     
  15. gargant1978

    gargant1978 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2007
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm a newbie in this kind of things, but what I learn from this discussion is that even swinging, which some still consider a "not so normal" lifestyle, has ethical issues. There seems to be an implication here, that is, no matter how much someone declares that sex is purely sex, there's still some emotional/affection going on to certain extent. In this case, snoozan finds that the racist gentleman who is so into this lifestyle is an offense since using the black man as a "sex slave" is downgrading the integrity of the black man (correct me if I'm wrong).

    I'm also seeing that this racist gentleman sorta use the black man as a dildo or "sex toy" to his, the gentleman's, wife/girlfriend. So, I do agree with you snoozan, it's all a matter of intention, what you intend to do with the sex, whether it is to respect each other and make friends (in terms of the swinging case). But I don't know, I join this community to learn :redface: Sorry if I seem to offend anyone.
     
  16. snoozan

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    3,568
    Likes Received:
    4
    Gargant got it pretty much right, I just find that perpetuating stereotypes, in particular, by someone that regularly uses the n-word and just about every other racial slur I've ever heard on a regular basis is using someone he wouldn't be able to speak to without feeling disgusted to participate in his sexual fetish.

    I honestly don't care how individuals conduct their sex lives except that to perpetuate racism by making it acceptable because it's a fantasy or a fetish is somewhat offensive to me. In my own live, I try not to act on any racist impulses no matter what they are, and that's how I was raised.

    I see BDSM and other pratices differently simply because they don't perpetuate highly charged social issues that are divisive and dangerous. Back when I was here a few months ago we had a thread on the "rape fantasy" that got really heated simply because rape is yet another issue that is still a real problem in our society. I don't see the two as being analagous, just that there is some room for debate on subjects like this.

    At any rate, it is ultimately up to the adults in these situations that decide if they feel it's racist/explotative/whatever or not. I just found my window on this particular subject to be slightly broader than it would have been had I not known someone that participates in it and his particular feelings on race outside the bedroom.

    Also, with the "Queen of Spades" thing... I thought "spade" was morally repugnant in our society. To me, that seems like overt racism.
     
  17. DC_DEEP

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2005
    Messages:
    9,029
    Likes Received:
    12
    The racial aspect adds to it, but I have always been somewhat repulsed by the whole "I-only-date-xyz" mindset. I only date younger men. I only date white women. I only date black men. I only date short women. (substitute "have sex" for "date", the sentiment is the same...)

    I understand that it's a little different to say "I prefer" or "I'm more attracted" or whatever, instead of "I only". Such a narrow focus seems pathological to me; if you add the racial aspect to it, it takes on a whole new spectrum of dysfunction.
     
  18. flaming infinity

    flaming infinity New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Messages:
    187
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not sure it's really racist or has anything to do with a big cock. It might just have to do with being something different in some cases. Anything different can be fun just because it's different.
     
  19. Riven650

    Gold Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,620
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    21
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norfolk UK
    I know what you mean Snoozan. We often used to see white actors on stage and film with their faces blacked up, but it went out of fashion as more and more people found it offensive. That 'Queen of Spades' thing is potentially much more offensive than the Black and White Minstrel Show.

    The cuccolding fetish is a humiliation fascet of the BDSM thing. But is it wrong for people to role play the stereotypes if all the players are volunteers and it’s being done in private? I think one way of looking at it is that in the 'Queen of Spades' thing every party involved is equally empowered (which wasn't the case with the Black and White Minstrel Show)
    ie. the black guys are played by black guys. That the white guy is depicted as being sexually inferior in this Q of S thing is perhaps the more lasting stereotype scar. I wonder if it’s the very least we deserve for putting blacks in slavery. Kind of like the perpetually reinforced (in adverts, film, etc.) myth that men are useless around the house, etc. I think we gotta expect it after all those generations of oppression of women.

    These stereotypes are deeply embedded in our society but hopefully the offensive terms will eventually lose their derogatory meaning. When I was a kid (in the 1950s/1960s it was not pc to call black people black. We English were taught to refer to them as 'coloured', but I wasn’t sure that it was right to differenciate at all, as I kind of knew instinctively that it was better to see us all, black, white, Asian, etc as a big family. The term 'nigger' has always been seen as extremely derogatory, however, black people empowered themselves when they started to call themselves black, and today some also call themselves nigger with pride. And why not? It's a great way of defusing the term.

    A few months back I became angry when some [young] guy started describing girls as sluts, and I found myself wading in and expressing my dissapproval of the term slut on the grounds that it is derogatory and offensive. I think I managed to make the guy squirm a bit. But then, just to make things complicated, I had to admit that there are plenty of women around who like to wear tee shirts with 'slut' slogans. Perhaps the term slut is losing some of its original derogatory meaning and instead starting to mean the same as ‘hot’, ‘sexy’, etc. and I just haven’t caught up with street talk. Not that the guy I reacted to was using it in a complementary way - far from it.

    The trouble is that the guy you know who’s talking loudly about the Queen of Spades cuccolding doesn’t seem to know when to keep his trap shut. But as you say, he’s a racist bastard, just like the jerk I objected to calling girls sluts is a sexist bastard. These bigots seize upon these stereotypes to reinforce and justify their prejudices. It’s best to avoid those people if you can. I’ll try to remember to use my ‘ignore’ button. You probably better keep outa the way of that guy.

    You are a good woman Snoozan. I like you :smile: and I hope you don't mind but I'm putting you on my buddy list.
     
  20. B_NineInchCock_160IQ

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    6,378
    Likes Received:
    11
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    where the sun never sets
    It objectifies. It hypersexualizes. It propogates untrue racial stereotypes. It's potentially psychologically damaging to all parties involved.

    That said.... if it makes you happy.... whatever. I don't care. It's going on behind closed doors and, aside from people who wander onto these websites, doesn't really directly affect anyone else. I can imagine some long-term ill effects of such a practice... but it's reaching... and it still doesn't feel like any of my business.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted