Does anyone really realize how f'ing scary it is now?

[faceking]

I know I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm in awe that Congress in this time of emergency squeezed in earmarks??????

Wool Research. Wool Research. Wool Research.


This should of been an emergency-only bill, we don't have time nor the risk for this shit.

New Tax earmarks in Bailout bill
- Film and Television Productions (Sec. 502)
-Wooden Arrows designed for use by children (S ec. 503)
- 6 page package of earmarks for litigants in the 1989 Exxon Valdez incident, Alaska (Sec. 504)

Tax earmark "extenders" in the bailout bill.
- Virgin Island and Puerto Rican Rum (Section 308)
- American Samoa (Sec. 309)
- Mine Rescue Teams (Sec. 310)
- Mine Safety Equipment (Sec. 311)
- Domestic Production Activities in Puerto Rico (Sec. 312)
- Indian Tribes (Sec. 314, 315)
- Railroads (Sec. 316)
- Auto Racing Tracks (317)
- District of Columbia (Sec. 322)
- Wool Research (Sec. 325)

 

[transformer_99]

I know I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm in awe that Congress in this time of emergency squeezed in earmarks??????

Wool Research. Wool Research. Wool Research.


This should of been an emergency-only bill, we don't have time nor the risk for this shit.

New Tax earmarks in Bailout bill
- Film and Television Productions (Sec. 502)
-Wooden Arrows designed for use by children (S ec. 503)
- 6 page package of earmarks for litigants in the 1989 Exxon Valdez incident, Alaska (Sec. 504)

Tax earmark "extenders" in the bailout bill.
- Virgin Island and Puerto Rican Rum (Section 308)
- American Samoa (Sec. 309)
- Mine Rescue Teams (Sec. 310)
- Mine Safety Equipment (Sec. 311)
- Domestic Production Activities in Puerto Rico (Sec. 312)
- Indian Tribes (Sec. 314, 315)
- Railroads (Sec. 316)
- Auto Racing Tracks (317)
- District of Columbia (Sec. 322)
- Wool Research (Sec. 325)

Those are the same standard earmarks that they've been trying to push thru on every piece of legislation since the dawn of time that didn't pass whatever their special interests happen to be (I'm really surprised there isn't anything in there for reparations for slavery). And as you can see, there's the 1989 Exxon Valdez incident that Daddy Bush never took care of. Now, legislation is probably drafted up in MS Word document format, so it's as simple as cut and paste to add it to the legislation. They share the document and add things at will. They wait until the deadline, then submit so that they think they're pulling a fast one on everyone else. After all the earmarks, wonder how much of this is really going to effectively be applied to the actual bailout. Retards got into trouble and are expecting retards to bail them out. Those of us that really have figured out what this is really all about have little say in it. I'm glad the House killed the legislation, Bush sure as hell wouldn't read it.

 

[B_New End]

Both Nrets and rawbone are the type of Americans the bailout cheerleaders are calling ignorant.

there are millions of us that know this bail out plan is bullshit, and the MORE bullshit they pile into it, doesn't make it any closer to chocolate. It's just getting to be a bigger, and bigger, and bigger pile of bullshit.

We know the overconsumption and credit crisis is not going to be solved with more credit and overconsumption, and we know the real problem is the lack of real production in this country.

Good essays, both of you.

 

[Nrets]

the real problem is the lack of real production in this country.

Yeah, that sums it up.

My main concern...though is that the Earth is so over populated that we need credit to fill in gaps....there may not be enough resources anymore to go back to any real form of production...which is why when this shit breaks... many people may die.

 

[B_starinvestor]

This isn't about bailing out the ludicrously rich. They are out of the equation. The credit markets, the real estate market and all of the ancillary businesses - appraisers, credit bureaus, abstractors, Home Depot, Lowes, contractors, landscapers, banks, credit unions, you name it - we are all susceptible to this. We all need to wake up and look around. We are all fucked. Schoolteachers, government workers, social workers- their lifeblood is tax revenue - bye bye.

The blame game is old news. Time to move on and fix this mess.

 

[B_New End]

This isn't about bailing out the ludicrously rich. They are out of the equation. The credit markets, the real estate market and all of the ancillary businesses - appraisers, credit bureaus, abstractors, Home Depot, Lowes, contractors, landscapers, banks, credit unions, you name it - we are all susceptible to this. We all need to wake up and look around. We are all fucked. Schoolteachers, government workers, social workers- their lifeblood is tax revenue - bye bye.

The blame game is old news. Time to move on and fix this mess.

Yes, lets just give wall street $700 Billion and hope it all goes away.

 

[transformer_99]

Both Nrets and rawbone are the type of Americans the bailout cheerleaders are calling ignorant.

there are millions of us that know this bail out plan is bullshit, and the MORE bullshit they pile into it, doesn't make it any closer to chocolate. It's just getting to be a bigger, and bigger, and bigger pile of bullshit.

We know the overconsumption and credit crisis is not going to be solved with more credit and overconsumption, and we know the real problem is the lack of real production in this country.

Good essays, both of you.

Before the bailout, it was 5 lbs of bullshit stuffed into a 2 lb bag. On Monday they tried to stuff 5 more lbs of bullshit into that same 2 lb bag and the legislation the Senate voted on is another 10 lbs of bullshit they are trying to stuff into that same 2 lb bag. Now we have Congress stuffing 20 lbs of bullshit into a 2 lb bag and there's bullshit everywhere. on their hands, on the floor, everywhere but where the bullshit needs to be and that's in the bag. All this bullshit and Bush and Congress are calling it fertilizer, which promotes growth and is good. Sounds like the plan ?

THE PLAN

In the beginning there was a plan. Then came the assumptions. The plan was without substance. The assumptions were without form. Darkness was upon the face of the workers.

And they spoke amongst themselves saying: "It is a crock of shit and
it stinketh!"

And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said: "It is a pail
of dung and none may abide the odour thereof!"

And the Supervisors went unto their Managers saying: "It is a
container of excrement and it is very strong, Such that none may
abide by it!"

And the Managers went unto the Management Committee saying: "It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide its strength!"

And the Management Committee spoke amongst itself saying unto one
another:

"It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong!"

And the Management Committee gave counsel unto the Vice Presidents
saying unto them: "It promotes growth and it is very powerful!"

And the Vice Presidents went unto the President saying unto him:
"This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigor of the
company with powerful effects!"

And the President looked upon the plan and saw that it was good. And
so the plan became policy.

And that's how shit happens.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Yes, lets just give wall street $700 Billion and hope it all goes away.

You know by now that nobody is giving Wall Street $700 billion. Wake up.

 

[B_New End]

You know by now that nobody is giving Wall Street $700 billion. Wake up.

Oh, I am wide awake. I have been wide awake for years. We fuct. We been fuct for years.

 

[B_New End]

Before the bailout, it was 5 lbs of bullshit stuffed into a 2 lb bag. On Monday they tried to stuff 5 more lbs of bullshit into that same 2 lb bag and the legislation the Senate voted on is another 10 lbs of bullshit they are trying to stuff into that same 2 lb bag. Now we have Congress stuffing 20 lbs of bullshit into a 2 lb bag and there's bullshit everywhere. on their hands, on the floor, everywhere but where the bullshit needs to be and that's in the bag. All this bullshit and Bush and Congress are calling it fertilizer, which promotes growth and is good. Sounds like the plan ?

THE PLAN

In the beginning there was a plan. Then came the assumptions. The plan was without substance. The assumptions were without form. Darkness was upon the face of the workers.

And they spoke amongst themselves saying: "It is a crock of shit and
it stinketh!"

And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said: "It is a pail
of dung and none may abide the odour thereof!"

And the Supervisors went unto their Managers saying: "It is a
container of excrement and it is very strong, Such that none may
abide by it!"

And the Managers went unto the Management Committee saying: "It is a vessel of fertilizer and none may abide its strength!"

And the Management Committee spoke amongst itself saying unto one
another:

"It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong!"

And the Management Committee gave counsel unto the Vice Presidents
saying unto them: "It promotes growth and it is very powerful!"

And the Vice Presidents went unto the President saying unto him:
"This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigor of the
company with powerful effects!"

And the President looked upon the plan and saw that it was good. And
so the plan became policy.

And that's how shit happens.

:biggrin1:

very nice.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Oh, I am wide awake. I have been wide awake for years. We fuct. We been fuct for years.

Ok, well please quit streaking around the neighborhood yelling about a blank check for Wall Street.

 

[B_New End]

Ok, well please quit streaking around the neighborhood yelling about a blank check for Wall Street.

Ok, well please quit simplifying my position into an easily attackable one. Its called a strawman, and its a logical fallacy.

 

[B_starinvestor]

Ok, well please quit simplifying my position into an easily attackable one. Its called a strawman, and its a logical fallacy.

You know 'strawman' touches a nerve.

 

[D_Bob_Crotchitch]

The coming economic earthquake has been decades in the making. The government cannot stop it. It amazes me that people are screaming to congress nonstop to prevent the bailout but few called to prevent NAFTA, the US being put in the world trade org., and the trade agreement with China.
For decades, the United States stayed ahead because of innovation. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Peeps from the USA invented the technology for vcr and dvd use. No US company would buy it. So, the Japanese bought it, and waited for the public to catch up to technology.
The same basic financial mistakes made by the US were made by the Japanese, and they are still suffering for it.
You need to pay off your debts, have a good sized emergency fund, and get real about what you can afford.

 

[curious n str8]

Anyone still scared and what scare's you mostly...besides not having the person you voted for getting elected? Please no posts about either party making things worse either...

 

[B_Nick4444]

[FONT=&quot]Wall Street's 'Disaster Capitalism for Dummies'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 reasons Main Street loses big while Wall Street sabotages democracy[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]By [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Paul B. Farrell[/FONT][FONT=&quot], MarketWatch[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Last update: 7:10 p.m. EDT Oct. 20, 2008[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (MarketWatch) -- Yes, we're dummies. You. Me. All 300 million of us. Clueless. We should be ashamed. We're obsessed about the slogans and rituals of "democracy," distracted by the campaign, polls, debates, rhetoric, half-truths and outright lies. McCain? Obama? Sorry to pop your bubble folks, but it no longer matters who's president. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why? The real "game changer" already happened. Democracy has been replaced by Wall Street's new "disaster capitalism." That's the big game-changer historians will remember about 2008, masterminded by Wall Street's ultimate "Trojan Horse," Hank Paulson. Imagine: Greed, arrogance and incompetence create a massive bubble, cost trillions, and still Wall Street comes out smelling like roses, richer and more powerful![/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Yes, we're idiots: While distracted by the "illusion of democracy" in the endless campaign, Congress surrendered the powers we entrusted to it with very little fight. Congress simply handed over voting power and the keys to trillions in the Treasury to Wall Street's new "Disaster Capitalists" who now control "democracy." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why did this happen? We're in denial, clueless wimps, that's why. We let it happen. In one generation America has been transformed from a democracy into a strange new form of government, "Disaster Capitalism." Here's how it happened: [/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Three decades of influence peddling in Washington has built an army of 42,000 special-interest lobbyists representing corporations and the wealthy. Today these lobbyists manipulate America's 537 elected officials with massive campaign contributions that fund candidates who vote their agenda. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]This historic buildup accelerated under Reaganomics and went into hyperspeed under Bushonomics, both totally committed to a new disaster capitalism run privately by Wall Street and Corporate America. No-bid contracts in wars and hurricanes. A housing-credit bubble -- while secretly planning for a meltdown. [/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Finally, the coup de grace: Along came the housing-credit crisis, as planned. Press and public saw a negative, a crisis. Disaster capitalists saw a huge opportunity. Yes, opportunity for big bucks and control of America. Millions of homeowners and marginal banks suffered huge losses. Taxpayers stuck with trillions in debt. But giant banks emerge intact, stronger, with virtual control over government and the power to use taxpayers' funds. They're laughing at us idiots!
  [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Amazing isn't it, Wall Street's Disaster Capitalists screwed up, likely planned or let happen this meltdown and recession. Yet America's clueless taxpayers just reward them by giving the screw-ups massive bailouts, control over more than $2 trillion of tax money, and the power to clean up the mess they made. Oh yes, we are dummies! [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This end game was planned for years in secret war rooms on Wall Street, in Corporate America, in Washington and the Forbes 400. Democracy is too cumbersome. It had to be marginalized for Disaster Capitalism to take over. Reagan, Bush and Paulson were Wall Street's "Trojan Horses." [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Naomi Klein summarizes the game in "Shock Doctrine: the Rise of Disaster Capitalism." This "new economy" generates enormous profits feeding off other peoples' misery: Wars, terror attacks, natural catastrophes, poverty, trade sanctions, subprime housing meltdowns and all kinds of economic, financial and political disasters. Natural (Katrina) or manmade (Iraq), either way "disaster capitalism" creates fortunes. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So you, me and the other 300 million better get out of denial. America is no longer a democracy. Voting is irrelevant. Best case scenario: We're a plutocracy, a government ruled by the wealthy, the richest 1%, the Forbes 400, the influential wealthy elite, while the other 99% are their [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]"servants." Meanwhile, the inflation-adjusted income of wage-earners has declined for three decades. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Worst case scenario: America's no democracy and as a result of the meltdown and the surrender of our power to Wall Street's new Disaster Capitalism we are morphing into what one WWII dictator called "corporatism," a "merger of state and corporate power," kind of like what's going on now with Goldman Sachs' ex-boss as de facto president. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Wolves in sheep's clothing[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes, a strong charge. But like a lot of our readers, I don't like what's happening to America. I'm a patriot. I volunteered for the Marines. Served four years. Volunteered for Korea. I don't like how our freedoms, rights and value system are being subverted in the name of greed, arrogance, self-righteous intolerance and other false gods. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We know for the last eight years disaster capitalists ignored obvious warnings of a coming meltdown. They apparently planned it. They road the bull, got very rich. Now they have the ultimate disaster capitalist weapons, trillions in tax money, virtual control of government. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That's why I fear we're on the edge of a dangerous line between Wall Street's version of disaster capitalism and a toxic "merger of state and corporate power." The wolf is in sheep's clothing. Wall Street pretends we're a democracy. Yet America more closely resembles the kind of "corporatism" that Laurence W. Britt wrote about five years ago in Free Inquiry magazine. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[B_Nick4444]

[FONT=&quot]We adapted his historical analysis of 14 key traits for today's discussion. Notice how they have a huge impact your investments and retirement: [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Wall Street rich get first priority[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think "bailout." Wall Street's greedy con game spins out of control globally. Millions of homeowners misled, lose. Who gets hundreds of billions first? Wall Street's con men. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. National security obsession [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of the expansion of executive powers in the name of national security: Preemptive wars, wiretapping private citizens, Gitmo, torture; driven by a dark wealthy neocon elite. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. Superpower with massive military [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of our $3 trillion Iraq/Afghan War. Disaster capitalists love the thrill of military power. We outspend all nations, over half the federal budget to strut before the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. Extreme nationalism [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Signs are everywhere: Flags, lapel pins, "support the troops" slogans, all to get huge military budgets passed. Challenge them and you're un-American and unpatriotic. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. Rally the masses by scapegoating enemies[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think "axis of evil," mushroom clouds, "Islamofascists," more terrorist attacks on the homeland. Propaganda creates "enemies" in the public's mind and distracts from real issues. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. Corruption and cronyism[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think earmarks, no-bid defense contracts, paid mercenaries outnumbering military in Iraq, superlobbyist Jack Abramoff, biofuels, bridge to nowhere, millions donated to campaigns. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7. Obsession with crime [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of prison-building as just another investment opportunity, rather than focusing on reforming our criminal justice system. Stoke irrational fear of criminals and extremists. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8. Labor and low wages [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think corporate earnings versus the wages paid to workers. No "trickling down," leaves more for tricklers: Rich insiders, stockholders. Wages dropping as CEO salaries skyrocket. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9. Contempt for human rights [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of abuses of habeas corpus, loss of right to trial, bogus charges, plus "demonizing" the victims, all in the name of national defense and homeland security. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10. Mass media manipulation[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of leaking false information, Joseph Wilson, Valerie Plame, Scooter Libby, Colin Powell's United Nation's testimony, Condoleezza Rice's mushroom clouds, WMDs, all to suppress the truth. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11. Obsession with sexism[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of paternalism, antigays, antiabortion, subordinate women -- then codify the system as the law of the land reinforcing a male-dominated society, punish violators. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12. Disdain for intellectuals [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of conservative intellectuals Francis Fukuyama and Bill Buckley. Contrast them to Sarah Palin and Joe Sixpack conservatism, Bush's funding cuts for arts and science education. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13. Religion in government[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of all the faith-based programs versus antiscience in drug approvals, creationism vs. evolution, Ten Commandments enshrined in public buildings, public money to churches. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14. Fraudulent elections[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Think of police and prosecutorial intimidation and threats to voters, challenging minority voters, ballots disappearing, party election officials committing outright fraud. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yes, officially America is still a democracy. We have enough signs and rituals to support that illusion. But the truth is America has become a plutocracy run by and for the wealthy. And since Wall Street's Disaster Capitalism coup de grace, we are rapidly morphing into a dangerous new government. [/FONT]

 

[B_Nick4444]

OMG Am I turning into a leftist?

 

[1BiGG1]

You tool.

the problem was NOT in Fannie and Freddie... it was in the triple A bond rating given to these ridiculous loan packages.
Those packages did not originate in Fannie and Freddie. Fannie and Freddie BOUGHT them, based upon the triple A rating.
They also sold them to other nations based on a bogus triple A rating.


10 years of republican rule.
YOU CAN NOT ESCAPE RESPONSIBILITY.

Yeah, and neither can the liberals but that fact doesn’t fit in with your narrow-minded conspiracy theories now does it there Phil LOL!

 

[ledroit]

It's interesting to see the guys on this site who are still using the same old tactics that got us into the mess in the first place. First tactic is to brand people as "leftists," "liberals," "socialists" and all that crap, based on identity politics. You set up a straw man, then attack the hell out of him--as though that is really going to help.

Second tactic is to think emotions will solve the problem. Get people to hate government, hate democrats, hate anybody who threatens to regulate or tax. (This is actually a variation on the first tactic.) Brand govt as the enemy.

This stuff makes the attacker feel all big and powerful. It does absolutely nothing either to solve the problem, or help keep people focused on the real issues.

Alan Greenspan admitted he made a mistake. He admits his "belief" that markets could be completely self-correcting on their own was wrong. He chose to be blind. But it wasn't an innocent blindness. He chose to prop up the Bush administration by ignoring the warning signs, since they would have required him to go at odds with the fantasies that brought Bush into power in the first place.

Two years of fairly severe global recession are not going to be easy for anybody. But they are going to make it very difficult for anybody except the old die hard GOP cheerleaders to keep their heads buried in the sand.

The rest of the world is awake. The financial systems are awake. There is a serious revaluation going on in economies world-wide. Part of the panic is fueled by jittery investors, and not on a small-scale, either. Gulf states are panicked, especially the UAE. The UAE has been building a huge Las Vegas in Dubai & Abu Dhabi, imagining that oil revenues would keep pouring in to finish construction and bring the well-heeled from Russia, India, Africa, Arabia, and live high on the hog. They basically did with an entire country what flip-around folks did with their homes: build something big and fancy, assuming somebody would have the cash to buy it, or keep it running.

They basically took the same mentality we saw in the US starting with Reagan and continuing through Gingrich's "Contract with America": make money off other people. Think of all the college kids in the US who stopped studying science, math, humanities--everything except business, and who imagined they would be managers, taking a cut and making a profit off other people's work, whether workers were immigrants in the US or peasants in China & India.

Those are the "beliefs" that are now facing a big reality check. Some people see it, some don't. The ones who rail the loudest now, and want to attack straw men like liberals, dems, "big govt" with all that crap are the ones who are pissed at the reality check. But if there is ever a conflict between these "faith-based" political beliefs and reality, reality wins.

The GOP has been wrong on what really drives the economy for 30 years. It is in fact the middle class, 95% of the US, that is the engine of our economy. Turn the heat up on them 0.05% and you will see an impact. Turn up the heat 100 degrees on the 1% at the top, and you will see virtually nothing, unless it is in their interests alone.

Keeping people blind to how health care needs to be managed to keep US workers competitive, for example, keeping them blind to how education needs to be focused to keep US workers competitive, blind to how govt at all levels needs to function well in order to keep workers competitive--all of that has been the backbone of GOP politics. It has seriously weakened the country's ability not just to come together in a decent, responsible way to solve common problems, but has now also had a ripple effect, spreading this virus out to other countries and cultures thanks to globalization.

People in the GOP need to do what Greenspan, Powell, and others who still have a sense of patriotism are doing: admit their mistakes, change course, and get focused on the fundamentals again. They need to lead the Republican party back to where it was 100 years ago, and get rid of the cowboy, redneck, right-wing religious nutcases who hijacked the party and the country itself, all to make themselves look good and feel good.

Making yourself look good and feel good at someone else's expense is unethical and indecent. It's also un-American.