Does HIV cause Aids?

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Andro Man, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. Andro Man

    Andro Man New Member

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    Deconstructing The Myth Of AIDS (Gary Null)

    Or is it just a moneymaking scam for farmaceuticals to make money, or worse giving HIVpositives drugs that might kill them even if they were/would have been otherwise healthy?

    Can it really be the case that there has never been any proper evidence of linking HIV to Aids?

    Scary....makes you wonder about the credibility of the medical establishment in general
     
  2. HotBulge

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    I don't think that a disease that wiped out a generation of gay men in the '80s and is killing thousands of heterosexuals and people in 3rd world countries, is hardly a conspiracy. It is also not a myth.

    As for the pharmaceutical companies making money off of HIV+ suffers, there is hardly a strong incentive for the companies to manufacture those drugs, especially if the majority of the suffers are in the 3rd world. (You wouldn't have people like Jimmy Carter nor organizations, such as the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, subsidizing the costs if so).

    The ignorance in your original post astounds me.
     
  3. Mem

    Mem
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    How does HIV cause AIDS?[​IMG][​IMG]En Español
    HIV destroys a certain kind of blood cell (CD4+ T cells) which is crucial to the normal function of the human immune system. In fact, loss of these cells in people with HIV is an extremely powerful predictor of the development of AIDS. Studies of thousands of people have revealed that most people infected with HIV carry the virus for years before enough damage is done to the immune system for AIDS to develop. However, sensitive tests have shown a strong connection between the amount of HIV in the blood and the decline in CD4+ T cells and the development of AIDS. Reducing the amount of virus in the body with anti-retroviral therapies can dramatically slow the destruction of a person’s immune system.
    For more information:
     
  4. Andro Man

    Andro Man New Member

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    "In 1984 we were told that HIV was the cause of AIDS. In his provocative documentary film, “Deconstructing the Myth of AIDS,” Gary Null, ... alle » Ph.D., challenges virtually every statement ever made by the American medical industrial complex on the virus - including those of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the National Institute for Health (NIH) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). While presenting the findings of Nobel Prize-winning scientists and leading virologists, the film exposes the political maneuvering, conspiracies and cover-ups that have provided obstacles to the study of this human catastrophe from the start.

    While presenting the findings of Nobel Prize-winning scientists and leading virologists, the film exposes the political maneuvering, conspiracies and cover-ups that have provided obstacles to the study of this human catastrophe from the start.

    For example, there are experts who believe that AIDS is the result of multiple factors, including drug use, stress and nutritional deficiency, but that government agencies made a politically strategic decision to de-emphasize these hypotheses and thus discourage certain researchers and their funding. Meanwhile, AZT, an infamously failed treatment for cancer, and now the primary FDA-approved approach to treating AIDS, is highly toxic and can produce the very symptoms of the illness it is prescribed to treat. "


    maybe, maybe not. Check out the video and then see if you think the same way

     
  5. Mem

    Mem
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    Are they saying that stress, nutrition and drug use is the cause of Aids, without HIV? If so people have been stressed, drugged and hungry for countless generations. Aids only appeared widely in the early 1980's.
     
  6. Andro Man

    Andro Man New Member

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    There saying that immune deficiency can be the cause of countless factors and that there is no causality between HIV and AIDS, eventhough it's been found in ppl with AIDS, they've found ppl without HIV with AIDS as well
     
  7. Osiris

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    I am still not sure, but look at Magic Johnson. He's been HIV positive for years and never once shown signs of full on AIDS and isn't really slowing down either.
     
  8. Andro Man

    Andro Man New Member

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    There was a book about it Wrongful deaths WRONGFUL DEATH: The AIDS Trial

    I haven't read it but I can infer from it that one took the medicin and the other one didn't
    Magic Johnson and Arthur Ashe - both HIV-positive.
    WHY DID ONE LIVE AND ONE DIE?

     
  9. horneyoldguy

    horneyoldguy New Member

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    Some Facts About HIV / AIDS

    Worldwide, the number of people with HIV numbers about 40 mil-lion, of that number, about 26 million lives in sub-Saharan Africa.

    Worldwide, the number of people, ages 15 to 49 living with HIV, is 1.1%, but in sub-Saharan Africa the number is 8%.

    In 2003, worldwide, the number of children under 18 orphaned by AIDS was 15 million, 12.3 million are located in sub-Saharan Africa

    HIV-1 is thought to be carried by the sub-group of chimpanzees known as Pan troglodytes troglodytes (P. t. troglodytes), which were once common in west-central Africa.

    HIV-2 corresponds to SIVsm, a strain of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus found in the Sooty Mangabey (also known as the green monkey), which is indigenous to western Africa. SIV is also found in red-capped mangabeys and the greater spot-nosed monkeys and it is believed that chimps contracted SIV after they hunted, killed and eaten the two smaller species of monkey.

    It is now generally accepted that HIV is a descendant of a Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV). HIV-2 corresponds to SIVsm, a strain of the Simian Immunodeficiency Virus found in the sooty mangabey (the green monkey), which is indigenous to western Africa and the more virulent strain of HIV, namely HIV-1, is a close counterpart to SIVcpz, the SIV found in chimpanzees. So the current theory is that HIV is a descendant of a Simian Immunodeficiency Virus because certain strains of SIVs bear a very close resemblance to HIV-1 and HIV-2, the two types of HIV. The most commonly accepted theory is that of the 'hunter'. In this scenario, SIVcpz was transferred to humans as a result of chimps being killed and eaten or their blood getting into cuts or wounds on the hunter.

    Researchers state that normally the hunter's body would have fought off SIV, but on a few occasions the virus adapted itself within its new human host and become HIV-1 and the fact that there were several different early strains of HIV, each with a slightly different genetic make-up (the most common of which was HIV-1 group M), appears to support the hunter theory because every time it passed from a chimpanzee to a man, it would have developed in a slightly different way (mutated) within his body, thus producing a slightly different strain.

    Three of the earliest known instances of HIV infection occur in Africa. The evidence comes from a plasma sample taken in 1959 from an adult male living in what is now the Democratic Republic of Congo. A 1998 analysis of the plasma sample from 1959 has suggested that HIV-1 was introduced into the human population between the 1930s-40s, but no later than the early 1950s, However, there are some scientists who think that it may have entered the human population as early as the end of the 19th century.

    It is believed that transmission outside of the African population occurred during the Guinea-Bissau’s war of independence from Portugal (1963-1974) because the first European cases of HIV-2 were discovered among Portuguese veterans of the war, many of whom had received blood trans-fusions, shared needles or syringes for injections following an injury, or had contact with African prostitutes in the region.

    There is apparently a human gene mutation, "CCR-5-delta-32", which prevents the AIDS virus from taking over human cells. This discovery occurred when historians examined the reason why some individuals survived the Bubonic Plague during the Middle Ages. After collecting DNA samples from survivor descendents of the Plague, it was discovered that they all carried the CCR-5-delta-32 gene, a gene which prevents the plague bacteria from infecting the individual’s cells.

    It appears that the Black Death strongly modified the European gene pool, increasing the frequency of CCR5-delta 32 because survivors of the Black Death had a higher frequency of the CCR5-delta 32 mutation.

    Research on high-risk, HIV-negative individuals indicates that if they carry the CCR5-delta 32 gene from both parents, there is the possibility that they are immune to the disease. However, further research showed that that if a high risk HIV individual carries the gene from only one parent, they eventually came down with the HIV virus.

    DNA samples from around the world show the presence of the CCR5 - delta 32 gene is highest in Europe (about 10% if the population are descendants of plague survivors) and in America, which was, for the most part, settled by European plague survivors. Only 2% of Central Asia’s population carries the gene and it is appears to be completely absent among East Asians, Africans, Latin Americans, and Native Americans.

    I found all of this information on the web from a variety of sources.
     
  10. simcha

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    Is the Pope Catholic?
     
  11. D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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    You're right, and eating crap and lack of exercise doen't cause obeseity. What an idiot. Go out and contract HIV and see what happens then come back and tell us.
     
  12. Osiris

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    Oh man! I forgot about Arthur Ashe. I never thought of that.
     
  13. Principessa

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    No, it makes me wonder how many other misguided sheep like yourself believe every crackpot, conspiracy theory that comes down the pipe. :confused:

    Osiris, darling it is possible to have HIV and have it diagnosed early, and treated but not cured. Thus Magic Johnson still being alive.


    Because Arthur Ashe had progressed to the point of having AIDS and they didn't have the complicated prescription drug cocktails available then that we do now. Magic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV fairly early hence his ability to be treated and stay alive for decades.

    FYI - When making grandiose and ludicrous claims it's best not to quote materials you haven't actually read.
     
  14. Osiris

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    Thank you for the clarification. I will admit I am not as well versed in this arena. I probably should be, but I basically worry about educating my kids to be safe.
     
  15. D_Cunningham Cumshipper

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    Just to be clear, there is no formal scientific test to define AIDS.

    AIDS is a syndrome not a specific disease with specific symptoms. It can vary with each person. The common thread is the autoimmunodeficiency.

    AIDS is defined by a low CD4+ (<200 per microliter) or the presence of opportunistic infections (Kaposi's sarcoma, PCP, toxoplasmosis, PML, etc) with a positive HIV test.

    So by definition you have to be HIV+ to have AIDS.
     
  16. Bbucko

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    I have been on the front lines of the epidemic for as long as the front lines have existed, and know more about HIV/AIDS than most because of who I am, when I was born, and how I've lived my life.

    I was born in 1960, so I was a teenager in the free-wheeling 70s when drugs were iniquitous and there were no permanent, untreatable repercussions from having boatloads of sex (that we were aware of). I grew up with a sense of freedom few younger than I can imagine, and in Boston, which has always been a gay mecca.

    From 1977 until 1981 (the first reports of deaths from a mysterious cancer plaguing "homosexuals, hemophiliacs and Haitians"), I was a very busy young man with two relationships under my belt and hundreds of sexual experiences. I spent most of 1979 working at a gay disco and was acquainted with almost everyone in town.

    AIDS first came into my life (beyond troubling news accounts) in 1983, when a guy I'd been having sex with off and on for several years tried to avoid me on the sidewalk. His face was covered with KS lesions.

    By 1989, my first two lovers were dead, two others were positive and struggling. My roommate was one of the first in my circle to try AZT. I was going to more memorial services than parties. It seemed as though everyone I'd ever met was failing or already dead.

    I didn't get tested because there was no way to process such information at that time, and monotherapy AZT seemed as destructive as the virus itself. I kid myself by thinking that, as a top, my risks were so minimized that I'd escaped, somehow.

    In 1990 I went on a long-overdue vacation in Spain, fell in love on a beach in Sitges, and moved to Paris to be with him all in the space of a couple of months. I thought that I'd escaped the pain a death all around me in Boston, only to discover that my big love was dying too. I was his caregiver and protector for the last eight months of his life. He died at the age of 33, weighing 35 kilos, in April 1992, and it took me years to recover emotionally.

    I fell ill in 1996 and tested positive. But with such terrible numbers, it's certain that I'd been infected 10-15 years previously and was a long-term slow progressor. My health has since been erratic, but is OK at the moment.

    The denialist who started this thread spits on the graves of everyone I've loved and lost (I stopped counting at 60, and that was a long time ago) when he questions the science behind the causal effects of HIV in the spread of AIDS.

    These people did not die because they were stressed, or because they did drugs (many did not) or because they lacked the skills to feed themselves properly. They died because they lost the fight raging between their immune systems and HIV. I am still alive because, for whatever reason, my immune system has kept the upper hand (so far). As far as I know, I am the last of my very broad circle from that time and place.

    I am a senior and highly respected member of AIDSmeds.com, a support/information online community for those living with HIV. I get all the latest information, where it is picked apart by folks who specialize in such things. The one sacred rule there, the one that can never be broken by a member, is to reject denialist propaganda and it's (ultimately evil) proponents.

    They are as uninformed and anti-science as your average creationist, PhDs notwithstanding.

    Arthur Ashe died before the decent meds came on line. Magic Johnson receives the finest medical care in the world. If one of his meds would start to cause his cheeks to hollow out as it drained all the fat from his face (it's called lipoatrophy), he can certainly afford the best cosmetic surgeons available to have his face filled. As he has become, essentially, a career PWA (person with AIDS), any caustic side effect would be detrimental to his cause, so it's no surprise that you'll never hear about any of his days spent on the toilet or sweat-soaked sheets.
     
  17. davec94

    davec94 Member

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    it's somewhat interesting that the efficacy of these treatment regimes (or perhaps just the perception of their effectiveness) has, in just a handful of years, led to a situation where people actually deny that the disease exists.
     
  18. Bbucko

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    The "post-AIDS" and "HIV-lite" mindset are products of the marketing departments of big pharma and the wishful thinking of the newly-diagnosed. Anyone who has actually been ill from an opportunistic infection would never think that way.

    BTW- Protease Inhibitors became generally available in 1996. Until then we really didn't have workable treatment options.
     
  19. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    I feel it is completely inadequate but there's nothing I can say other than, thank you.















     
  20. simcha

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    Bbucko, again I'm blown away by your sharing. Thanks so much for having the courage to share what you share.
     
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