Does HIV cause Aids?

IntoxicatingToxin

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I am still not sure, but look at Magic Johnson. He's been HIV positive for years and never once shown signs of full on AIDS and isn't really slowing down either.

This is my brother... he's been HIV positive for about 9 years now, still no AIDS.
 

Andro Man

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No, it makes me wonder how many other misguided sheep like yourself believe every crackpot, conspiracy theory that comes down the pipe. :confused:

Osiris, darling it is possible to have HIV and have it diagnosed early, and treated but not cured. Thus Magic Johnson still being alive.

Because Arthur Ashe had progressed to the point of having AIDS and they didn't have the complicated prescription drug cocktails available then that we do now. Magic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV fairly early hence his ability to be treated and stay alive for decades.

FYI - When making grandiose and ludicrous claims it's best not to quote materials you haven't actually read.




Have you read it? if not you yourself are making assumptions, I inferred it from the context it was in.

Anyway you obviously aren't openminded enough to even watch it. If you had you would have found the scientists involved are hardly crackpots.( I certainly wouldn't call a nobel prize laureat a crackpot unless you know more than he does about his specialised field). In fact the opposite, exposing the dubious methods the so called discoverer GAllo used to 'isolate' HIV.
 

Andro Man

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I have been on the front lines of the epidemic for as long as the front lines have existed, and know more about HIV/AIDS than most because of who I am, when I was born, and how I've lived my life.

I was born in 1960, so I was a teenager in the free-wheeling 70s when drugs were iniquitous and there were no permanent, untreatable repercussions from having boatloads of sex (that we were aware of). I grew up with a sense of freedom few younger than I can imagine, and in Boston, which has always been a gay mecca.

The point they make in the documentary was that the reason why homosexuals were so much at risk was because of, as you state, sexual contacts of upwards to 2000 a year!!! This made them succeptable to a wide range of viral infections that all taxed their immune system. And because of this they were taking tons of antibiotics and thus started started to become immune from it.(the same thing is happening in the jails in Russia, coz of irresponsible use of a.b.'s diseases thought extinct like TB are coming back in epedemic proportions).
Also gays used drugs like poppers and anal nitrites that were meant to fuck up your immune system as well.



From 1977 until 1981 (the first reports of deaths from a mysterious cancer plaguing "homosexuals, hemophiliacs and Haitians"), I was a very busy young man with two relationships under my belt and hundreds of sexual experiences. I spent most of 1979 working at a gay disco and was acquainted with almost everyone in town.

AIDS first came into my life (beyond troubling news accounts) in 1983, when a guy I'd been having sex with off and on for several years tried to avoid me on the sidewalk. His face was covered with KS lesions.

By 1989, my first two lovers were dead, two others were positive and struggling. My roommate was one of the first in my circle to try AZT. I was going to more memorial services than parties. It seemed as though everyone I'd ever met was failing or already dead.

I didn't get tested because there was no way to process such information at that time, and monotherapy AZT seemed as destructive as the virus itself. I kid myself by thinking that, as a top, my risks were so minimized that I'd escaped, somehow.

This is the reason why this documentary is important. If it's true that the socalled Aidstest(western blot) is a fraud coz it identifies the 'hivproteins'. IF these same proteins can be found in alcoholics, Mspatients, leukemiapatients etc. Then there might have been a lot of falsely identified HIVpatients and furthermore.....if the medical establishment equates HIV to Aids and Aids to death and AZT actually caused the immune deficiency in otherwise healthy patients.....

In 1990 I went on a long-overdue vacation in Spain, fell in love on a beach in Sitges, and moved to Paris to be with him all in the space of a couple of months. I thought that I'd escaped the pain a death all around me in Boston, only to discover that my big love was dying too. I was his caregiver and protector for the last eight months of his life. He died at the age of 33, weighing 35 kilos, in April 1992, and it took me years to recover emotionally.

I fell ill in 1996 and tested positive. But with such terrible numbers, it's certain that I'd been infected 10-15 years previously and was a long-term slow progressor. My health has since been erratic, but is OK at the moment.

The denialist who started this thread spits on the graves of everyone I've loved and lost (I stopped counting at 60, and that was a long time ago) when he questions the science behind the causal effects of HIV in the spread of AIDS.

I'm sorry for your losses, but your anger is directed at the wrong person. At least if even 5% of the documentary is true. This info should especially be important to you.
And maybe if you'd taken these drugs you would have been dead also, 'saved' by the medical establishment
What was different in '96 when you fell ill, i presume you have been ill before, what got you worried this time?

These people did not die because they were stressed, or because they did drugs (many did not) or because they lacked the skills to feed themselves properly. They died because they lost the fight raging between their immune systems and HIV. I am still alive because, for whatever reason, my immune system has kept the upper hand (so far). As far as I know, I am the last of my very broad circle from that time and place.
I am a senior and highly respected member of AIDSmeds.com, a support/information online community for those living with HIV. I get all the latest information, where it is picked apart by folks who specialize in such things. The one sacred rule there, the one that can never be broken by a member, is to reject denialist propaganda and it's (ultimately evil) proponents.
They are as uninformed and anti-science as your average creationist, PhDs notwithstanding.

If you'd even watched the video as stated, these people are/were (after they started publishing their findings weren't anymore) highly respected scientist nobel laureats.

They're not denying Aids exists, it obviously does, what they're stating is that there's absolutely no evidence that HIV causes AIDS. Why has the medical establishment not saved a single life with there drugs and caused more harm than good...? That to me is evil, being on the wrong track and banishing all the scientists that don't agree that HIV causes AIDS and death.




Arthur Ashe died before the decent meds came on line. Magic Johnson receives the finest medical care in the world. If one of his meds would start to cause his cheeks to hollow out as it drained all the fat from his face (it's called lipoatrophy), he can certainly afford the best cosmetic surgeons available to have his face filled. As he has become, essentially, a career PWA (person with AIDS), any caustic side effect would be detrimental to his cause, so it's no surprise that you'll never hear about any of his days spent on the toilet or sweat-soaked sheets.

Actually
The year after Magic's news conference, tennis great Arthur Ashe made a similar stunning announcement and he died 10 months later.
So Magic had HIV. And he was going to die
 

Osiris

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I have been on the front lines of the epidemic for as long as the front lines have existed, and know more about HIV/AIDS than most because of who I am, when I was born, and how I've lived my life.

I was born in 1960, so I was a teenager in the free-wheeling 70s when drugs were iniquitous and there were no permanent, untreatable repercussions from having boatloads of sex (that we were aware of). I grew up with a sense of freedom few younger than I can imagine, and in Boston, which has always been a gay mecca.

From 1977 until 1981 (the first reports of deaths from a mysterious cancer plaguing "homosexuals, hemophiliacs and Haitians"), I was a very busy young man with two relationships under my belt and hundreds of sexual experiences. I spent most of 1979 working at a gay disco and was acquainted with almost everyone in town.

AIDS first came into my life (beyond troubling news accounts) in 1983, when a guy I'd been having sex with off and on for several years tried to avoid me on the sidewalk. His face was covered with KS lesions.

By 1989, my first two lovers were dead, two others were positive and struggling. My roommate was one of the first in my circle to try AZT. I was going to more memorial services than parties. It seemed as though everyone I'd ever met was failing or already dead.

I didn't get tested because there was no way to process such information at that time, and monotherapy AZT seemed as destructive as the virus itself. I kid myself by thinking that, as a top, my risks were so minimized that I'd escaped, somehow.

In 1990 I went on a long-overdue vacation in Spain, fell in love on a beach in Sitges, and moved to Paris to be with him all in the space of a couple of months. I thought that I'd escaped the pain a death all around me in Boston, only to discover that my big love was dying too. I was his caregiver and protector for the last eight months of his life. He died at the age of 33, weighing 35 kilos, in April 1992, and it took me years to recover emotionally.

I fell ill in 1996 and tested positive. But with such terrible numbers, it's certain that I'd been infected 10-15 years previously and was a long-term slow progressor. My health has since been erratic, but is OK at the moment.

The denialist who started this thread spits on the graves of everyone I've loved and lost (I stopped counting at 60, and that was a long time ago) when he questions the science behind the causal effects of HIV in the spread of AIDS.

These people did not die because they were stressed, or because they did drugs (many did not) or because they lacked the skills to feed themselves properly. They died because they lost the fight raging between their immune systems and HIV. I am still alive because, for whatever reason, my immune system has kept the upper hand (so far). As far as I know, I am the last of my very broad circle from that time and place.

I am a senior and highly respected member of AIDSmeds.com, a support/information online community for those living with HIV. I get all the latest information, where it is picked apart by folks who specialize in such things. The one sacred rule there, the one that can never be broken by a member, is to reject denialist propaganda and it's (ultimately evil) proponents.

They are as uninformed and anti-science as your average creationist, PhDs notwithstanding.

Arthur Ashe died before the decent meds came on line. Magic Johnson receives the finest medical care in the world. If one of his meds would start to cause his cheeks to hollow out as it drained all the fat from his face (it's called lipoatrophy), he can certainly afford the best cosmetic surgeons available to have his face filled. As he has become, essentially, a career PWA (person with AIDS), any caustic side effect would be detrimental to his cause, so it's no surprise that you'll never hear about any of his days spent on the toilet or sweat-soaked sheets.

It's rare that someone shares so openly and moves me so deeply. I lost someone very close to me about 18 years ago to this disease. I learned enough to be dangerous, but after her passing, tuned it all out and stopped listening and protected me and mine.

Thanks you Bbucko for teaching me and getting me thinking.
 

D_Cunningham Cumshipper

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And because of this they were taking tons of antibiotics and thus started started to become immune from it.(the same thing is happening in the jails in Russia, coz of irresponsible use of a.b.'s diseases thought extinct like TB are coming back in epedemic proportions).

This is the reason why this documentary is important. If it's true that the socalled Aidstest(western blot) is a fraud coz it identifies the 'hivproteins'.

They're not denying Aids exists, it obviously does, what they're stating is that there's absolutely no evidence that HIV causes AIDS. Why has the medical establishment not saved a single life with there drugs and caused more harm than good...? That to me is evil, being on the wrong track and banishing all the scientists that don't agree that HIV causes AIDS and death.

Actually
The year after Magic's news conference, tennis great Arthur Ashe made a similar stunning announcement and he died 10 months later.
So Magic had HIV. And he was going to die

(1) Please try reading what other people write before you respond to their posts. The point they made about Ashe/Magic was that Ashe died because of the lack of efficacious drugs at the time.

(2) I noticed you didn't try to disagree with any of my points because you don't have any scientific knowledge on the subject.

(3) Please try to use at least halfway decent grammar. Right now, it's so bad that it makes your argument even worse if that is possible.

(4) I'm assuming you are using "a.b's" to stand for antibiotics. Antibiotics can cause an increased incidence in certain illnesses (like C. diff), but I have never heard anybody with any knowledge suggest that it could cause an increase in Mycobacterial infections. TB is spread in jails because of the crowded living conditions not the use of antibiotics.

(5) They don't just use the Western blot for AIDS detection. They also use an ELISA. I'd explain it, but that gets into issues like sensitivity and specificity and I'm going to assume that would go way over your head.
 

Principessa

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(5) They don't just use the Western blot for AIDS detection. They also use an ELISA. I'd explain it, but that gets into issues like sensitivity and specificity and I'm going to assume that would go way over your head.


Boston1983, Never enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. :biggrin1:
 

Principessa

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(5) They don't just use the Western blot for AIDS detection. They also use an ELISA. I'd explain it, but that gets into issues like sensitivity and specificity and I'm going to assume that would go way over your head.


Boston 1983, you should know better than to enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed man.:tongue:
 

JustAsking

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AIDs deniers are some of the most evil people on the planet. By affecting public policy in such places as Africa, they will soon be responsible for more deaths than The Holocaust. If he has been at it for some time, this man has gallons of blood on his hands. Stop talking to this evil bastard and let him go back under the rock from which he came. This man is a murderer.
 

Bbucko

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AIDs deniers are some of the most evil people on the planet. By affecting public policy in such places as Africa, they will soon be responsible for more deaths than The Holocaust. If he has been at it for some time, this man has gallons of blood on his hands. Stop talking to this evil bastard and let him go back under the rock from which he came. This man is a murderer.

Word.
 

Whopper-lee

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"....credibility or conspiracy...."
HIV / AIDS = NO JOKE in this world and time!
BEWARE...DEATH is it's end results!

" Let not the young be misled,
for common sense, is not so common...if not said"

Think with your head...not your ass (sorta speak...no pun intended)
 

basque9

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Quote The denialist who started this thread spits on the graves of everyone I've loved and lost (I stopped counting at 60, and that was a long time ago) when he questions the science behind the causal effects of HIV in the spread of AIDS.These people did not die because they were stressed, or because they did drugs (many did not) or because they lacked the skills to feed themselves properly. They died because they lost the fight raging between their immune systems and HIV. I am still alive because, for whatever reason, my immune system has kept the upper hand (so far). As far as I know, I am the last of my very broad circle from that time and place.Quote Bbucko

Bbucko, all of your poignant story resonates well with me! How I escaped infection is one of God's own mysteries. I too am the last survivor from my own very broad circle from that time in my own big city place! I have never taken a full count of all of those who left me behind, but there is not one iota of doubt in my mind concerning the mechanism whereby they were taken from me! My heart reaches out in support to you!:smile::smile::smile::smile::smile:
 

Bbucko

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Thanks, DB9-

But if their deaths truly meant anything to you, then it is your responsibility to fight the OP's message head-on. Think of it as ACT-UP 2007.
 

ActionBuddy

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To honor my 160+ loved ones, friends, heroes and acquaintances, who died of AIDS, every single one of them diagnosed as HIV Positive... I will not engage in this thread, further than this long sentence... in order to dishonor the pseudo-science of it's delusional OP.

Onan
 

snoozan

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I want to address a point about the credentials of the Nobel Laureates who are championing this cause. James Watson of Watson and Crick fame is a Nobel laureate, but if you read some of the ridiculous things that he's been spouting since then, you'll see that even Nobel laureates are fallible and not all knowing, even in the fields they made themselves famous with. Most scientists are very well trained but know a very narrow area of their specialty to an expert level. It does not follow that any Nobel laureate just because they won the prize is an expert in Infectious Disease medicine and specifically, HIV and AIDS.

This anti-HIV theory has been around for years. The most vocal proponent has been Peter Duesburg, who has volunteered on many occasions to inject himself with HIV but has never done so. I think this is telling. Also, for every Duesburg out there, there are thousands of scientists and medical professionals who have studied and seen HIV and AIDS from every possible perspective who agree that HIV causes AIDS.

Yes, HIV causing AIDS is just a theory, the same as gravity is. At the moment, it's the best that we've got and the life of people with HIV has undeniably been extended with the advent of working medication.
 

dan6109

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Ignorance is bliss. In South Africa for instance, the President a number of years ago. publicly announced that there is no evidence to link HIV+ status to Aids. As a result 100s of 1000s of people have died. The health minister in this country supported these views and recommended a diet of beetroot and garlic. Many more have died because of this view. Yet, both the President and the Health Minister are still in power and sticking to their stories.
 

HotBulge

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I'm just baffled that someone would try to dismiss AIDs being caused by HIV+ virus as "a myth". One can disagree about a specific scientific mechanism or the degree of correlation between HIV+ and AIDS, but to dismiss it as a myth all together is stupefying. It's as ridiculous as dismissing the Jewish/Gay Holocaust of WWII as a myth.

Why not look at the "mythmaker", who denies the preponderance of scientific/observable/documented evidence, and wonder what the "mythmaker's" motive is?
 

basque9

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Deconstructing The Myth Of AIDS (Gary Null)

Or is it just a moneymaking scam for farmaceuticals to make money, or worse giving HIVpositives drugs that might kill them even if they were/would have been otherwise healthy?Can it really be the case that there has never been any proper evidence of linking HIV to Aids Scary....makes you wonder about the credibility of the medical establishment in general

It's ok to inform yourself about this denialist dogma Andro Man...but as an educated and informed individual...make certain also to open your eyes to the overwhelming evidence which demonstrates the true mechanism of HIV/AIDS transmission and which demonstrates effective methods for treating same! You owe this to yourself and to all of those you love and cherish! Your very survival could be in the balance!:smile:
 

Wrey

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Oh my god, this thread has got me so pissed off!

First, I watched your little video. Ridiculous. Nothing but posturing and side stepping legalese not even fit for a courtroom. Your ‘Noble Prize Laureate’ is simple displaying stung pride at not getting the mention or credit. The argument is nothing more than a search for loopholes in order to put the search back on the table so that names can go down in the annuls of medical history.

Second, your ignorance, and disrespect are in the poorest of taste. People living with HIV and with AIDS are an Autonomous Fact.

What is an Autonomous Fact, you say? It is something that exists regardless of opinion. It cannot be changed by simply changing one’s viewpoint.

I have HIV.

That is an Autonomous Fact.

I was diagnosed in 2001 and I am certain as to the very date that I was infected. I did not start medication of any kind until I was four-years-in to my situation.

When I was diagnosed I weighed 150 lbs. Normal for me.

When I started medication (Sustiva & Combivir) I was down to 121 lbs, my VL was over 150,000 and my CD4 count had dropped to 140.

Within one month of starting my meds my VL was less than 400 and my CD4 count was rising. Within three months my VL was undetectable and my CD4 count was still rising.

As of today my VL remains undetectable and my CD4 count hovers between 700 and 800.

I do not require the esoteric paper publishing and other brouhaha that your video opines necessary for HIV and AIDS to be taken as fact.

I myself am the fact. I myself am the proof.

Does a body liquefy from Ebola because a research paper says it does?

You have obviously been tested and come up positive. You are either old enough to remember the ‘80s and are scared shitless or you are too young to remember the ‘80s and so you are ignorant.

I pray, truly I do, that you wise up before your mother and father have to watch a 75 lb skeleton of a man, who was once their son, take his last breath before their eyes.

You disrespect everyone who has suffered. You disrespect everyone who has lovingly sat at a bedside, both family and medical professional. You disrespect every aspect of this fight with your denial. You confuse the issue with words and circular arguments.

Dude, you piss me off. :mad: