Does the thought of a Mormon in the White House scare the Shit out of you?

[FRE]

Even if they are connected, does that make them bad?

No. Faith may cause people to behave better and to support social justice more strongly. In that case, if behavior and faith are connected, it is good. The problem is that faith may also result in taking inappropriate positions. A good, but rather extreme, example is how women are treated in Saudi Arabia and in some other (but not all) Muslim countries.

Here in the U.S., faith has, in the past, resulted in laws forcing all retail businesses to be closed on Sundays which surely violates the rights of those whose faith does not require Sunday closing or who believe in observing another day, such as Jews, Seventh Day Adventists, and Seventh Day Baptists. Faith has also resulted in condemning those whose romantic interest is limited to the same sex. No doubt others could provide additional examples.

What some (but not all) people of faith fail to understand is that it is not a good idea to use the law to force one's religious beliefs on others except in cases where those religious beliefs support principals of social justice which are almost universally accepted. Thus, if one's faith opposes murder, stealing, bearing false witness, and other behaviors that are practically universally recognized as incompatible with social justice, it is reasonable to enact those principals of faith into law. But if one's faith requires Sunday observance, it is not reasonable to enact Sunday observance into law.

 

[cruztbone]

the mere thought of a MORON , i mean Mormon , in the White House makes me have my passport ready for Costa Rica. if i have to listen to the holier than thou bullshit from the Mormon church for 4 years, the US is not the place to be. Mormonism is a cult that includes hatred for those who are not white, red haired males with a bizarre story about Jesus having lived in the US 2 thousand years ago. sad and misguided. But the chances are good it wont happen. why? Obama will be tough be beat. Thank god.

 

[earllogjam]

But the chances are good it wont happen. why? Obama will be tough be beat. Thank god.

Don't bet on it. It's gonna be a very tough re-election.

 

[TheBestYouCan]

the mere thought of a MORON , i mean Mormon , in the White House makes me have my passport ready for Costa Rica. if i have to listen to the holier than thou bullshit from the Mormon church for 4 years, the US is not the place to be. Mormonism is a cult that includes hatred for those who are not white, red haired males with a bizarre story about Jesus having lived in the US 2 thousand years ago. sad and misguided. But the chances are good it wont happen. why? Obama will be tough be beat. Thank god.

Sorta like how you spew nothing but hateful rhetoric on these boards about people who don't believe what you believe? Interesting!

I don't think the religion of the President will matter, at least not to the point that he violates the rights of others because of it.

 

[wappingite]

In his defense, Romney led a vastly non-Mormon state as governor and the sky didn't exactly fall. I certainly won't be voting for him (absentee) in the general election next November, but if I had to pick one of the Repbulicans running, it would be him. Lesser of all evils.

I think the Mormon factor is more important than people let on, especially in the Bible Belt among Evangelicals. I think much of the "anyone but Romney" thing going on isn't because of his flip-flops or Romneycare, it's because he's LDS and the Evangelicals have a strong role in the GOP primary process. It's weird that such a big elephant in the room is so ignored by the media, but I'm afraid it's going to be very visible in the upcoming South Carolina primary. Even weirder for the Evangelicals is that they may need to pick between a Roman Catholic and a Mormon, both from groups that many are taught to distrust or even despise. I actually think this may lead to a third party Evangelical candidate, or many people not showing up on election day.

 

[Jason]

Does Romney believe in the doctrine of "blood atonement"? The idea as I understand it is that some sins (eg murder) cannot be forgiven through Christ but require a blood price. The doctrine is therefore a theological justification of the death penalty - it helps save the soul of the executed.

I know that not all Mormons believe in "blood atonement". But some do, and others have a cultural acceptance of the death penalty. If Romney is in either group his election would pose some serious international issues. Very many nations, including the UK, regard the death penalty - judicial murder - as a crime against humanity. Having a president of the USA who actively supports judicial murder would be a significant friction surface.

 

[1kmb1]

yeah, because the jesus christ story only becomes implausible when you throw palmyra, new york into the mix...

thats the crazy part

 

[vince]

Does Romney believe in the doctrine of "blood atonement"? The idea as I understand it is that some sins (eg murder) cannot be forgiven through Christ but require a blood price. The doctrine is therefore a theological justification of the death penalty - it helps save the soul of the executed.

I know that not all Mormons believe in "blood atonement". But some do, and others have a cultural acceptance of the death penalty. If Romney is in either group his election would pose some serious international issues. Very many nations, including the UK, regard the death penalty - judicial murder - as a crime against humanity. Having a president of the USA who actively supports judicial murder would be a significant friction surface.

Well George Bush was Governor of Texas and many British politicians got on just fine with him. Especially the PM. To date, I don't think Mr. Romney has signed anyone's execution papers.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Does Romney believe in the doctrine of "blood atonement"? The idea as I understand it is that some sins (eg murder) cannot be forgiven through Christ but require a blood price. The doctrine is therefore a theological justification of the death penalty - it helps save the soul of the executed.

I know that not all Mormons believe in "blood atonement". But some do, and others have a cultural acceptance of the death penalty. If Romney is in either group his election would pose some serious international issues. Very many nations, including the UK, regard the death penalty - judicial murder - as a crime against humanity. Having a president of the USA who actively supports judicial murder would be a significant friction surface.

In 2005, as Massachusetts governor, Romney introduced a death penalty bill in the state House of Representatives. Here is what he said:

“From my perspective, there are two main camps when it comes to the death penalty. On one side, there are some people who believe there are certain crimes that are so offensive… so reprehensible…. so far beyond the bounds of civilized society that they demand the ultimate punishment. In the other camp are well-meaning people who believe that it is immoral for government to ever take a life. In the middle, I believe, are others who could support the death penalty if it is narrowly applied and contains the appropriate safeguards. It is with that group in mind that we have brought forward the death penalty bill before you today…
"The appropriate response of society to terrorism carried out around the world or within the Commonwealth’s borders is to apply the death penalty. That is why the legislation I filed in April accounts for terrorism, along with a small number of other crimes, including the assassination of a law enforcement officer, judge, juror or prosecutor, for the purpose of obstructing an ongoing criminal proceeding. My legislation would also allow juries to consider the death penalty in cases that involve prolonged torture or multiple murders, as well as cases in which the defendant has already been convicted of first-degree murder or is serving a life sentence without parole.”

​

No mention of "blood atonement," though I doubt he would have dared bring it up even if it were a factor in his thinking.

In other news, I grew up in a community that was perhaps 30 percent Mormon. I can easily believe that there is no more risk of Romney having more allegiance to his religion than to his oath of office than was true, say, of JFK and his Catholicism.

 

[Klingsor]

What *really* scared me was Nixon and that whole Quaker thing. :wink:

 

[houtx48]

What *really* scared me was Nixon and that whole Quaker thing. :wink:

Nixon did not prove to be a very good Quaker now did he? Wife beating paranoid alcoholic and friend of China.

 

[Jason]

Amnesty has figures for number of judicial murders carried out by nation in 2010. The ten worst nations (in order) are:

China
Iran
North Korea
Yemen
USA
Saudi Arabia
Libya
Syria
Bangladesh
Somalia.

The USA badly needs a president who will get rid of judicial murder and the shame this brings on the people of the USA. A man who has proposed a death penalty bill is not a good choice for the USA. More concerning still is a man whose obnoxious cult provides a justification for what amounts to ritualised sacrifice because they believe Christ's Grace is not sufficient to save the souls of people who have committed terrible crimes.

 

[ConanTheBarber]

Nixon did not prove to be a very good Quaker now did he? Wife beating paranoid alcoholic and friend of China.

He was certainly paranoid.
Friend of China? Well, he opened things up between the U.S. and China ... which many people consider the crowning achievement of his presidency.
Alcoholic? He got into the suds during Watergate, but you call him an outright alcoholic. Any justification?
And wife beating? Any proof of that?

 

[ConanTheBarber]

More concerning still is a man whose obnoxious cult provides a justification for what amounts to ritualised sacrifice because they believe Christ's Grace is not sufficient to save the souls of people who have committed terrible crimes.

Church officials have said that blood atonement does not apply in today's world.
There is good reason to think that the doctrine was widely held in the early years of the Mormon Church.
It is still said to be operative among fundamentalist Mormon sects.
But there is no reason to think that Mitt Romney believes in it.

 

[upone]

What *really* scared me was Nixon and that whole Quaker thing. :wink:

Excuse me. I grew up as a Quaker. Nixon's MOTHER was a Hicksite Quaker from Indiana. Her family, the Milhous family, was mentioned in The Friendly Persuasion, written before Nixon was elected to anything.

Nixon never was a Quaker and never had any connection to the Society of Friends; when he was elected as president about 20% of the members of Quaker churches were arrested for trespassing in a series of demonstrations at the White House to express our dis-association from him and his lies.

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That being said, am I afraid of a Mormon president? Not at all. Willard Romney, on the other hand, terrifes me.

 

[B_Craiggers]

No, I do not worry about a Mormon in the white house.

I do worry about this particular Mormon, but it's nothing to do with his faith.

 

[CUBE]

Yep, they have taken a vow to take over the world in their religion. Mitt has already shown that by having a large brood of children. He will do everything in his power to push his agenda. A very dangerous man

 

[ConanTheBarber]

No, I do not worry about a Mormon in the white house.

I do worry about this particular Mormon, but it's nothing to do with his faith.

Yeah, I don't get that he would be an inspired or inspiring president at all.

 

[Sklar]

N, but the thought of Rick Santorum in the White House does.

Sklar

 

[Hoss]

It's surprising that none of the talking heads are mentioning Romney's religion but it's probably the one reason why he ain't doing so good with the evangelicals who regard Mormonism akin to devil worship. It's very scary if their brand of morality be imposed on our nation.

It would be a huge financial windfall for the LDS Church if they get to tithe Romney's salary as Pres and all the thousands of Mormons he appoints to run our government. *shudders*

Back in 1960 people had trouble with Kennedy because he was a Catholic.

Since there isn't a lot of evidence that Romney only hires Mormons it's more than silly to think that's all he'd hire if he became President.

Romney's salary as President will be a lot less than he most probably is currently raking in from various places so that wouldn't be that big a boost to the Church of LDS. Even if he gave the entire 4 year run of salary it's basically a drop in the bucket to their organization.....especially while they still have all those Osmonds.:biggrin1:


I don't care that much about the religion of a President I am more concerned with what they actually do or don't do as leader of the country.