Does Tragedy/trauma Beget Forgiveness?

Sagittarius84

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I think there are many permutations in these type of scenarios that are going to get a range of differing responses from different women, so Im interested to see what type of answers and/or explanations go into this particular thread.
My sister in law is in a relationship with a guy. I don't much care for him, but to his credit he does dutifully provide for their family unit, and no matter how we perceive his treatment of her, he definitely has endeared himself to her, so what ever makes her happy.. He just recently had a health scare that required immediate drastic action(amputation of a digit) and so is currently in the hospital recovering and in need of support when he gets out....during his stay the sister in law happened to find evidence in his phone of possible cheating or at least attempts to do so...obviously she was emotional about it upon finding out, but has resolved to stay with him.
So.my question is, is there a limit to your forgiveness or at least a temporary overlooking of whatever trangresssion in the midst of trauma/recovery or does said transgression nullify any expectation of support? Do you feel subject to the same, as in do you feel your spouse/SO should forgive or at least temporarily overlook a transgression found after the fact of your particular trauma?
 

rtg

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It depends on the situation. For me, if I discovered my SO was cheating or potentially cheating I would not let that fly. The only time I might would be if he had just lost a close family member (not an elderly one). But I would bring it to once things have settled down a bit.... I’ve never been in such a situation though so can’t really say for sure.... but I hope that’s what I’d do.
 
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I'd still help the guy, but I would't let the issue slide. If it was "just" flirting, I'd probably try work through it and see if I wasn't meeting his needs or if he's a dawg that needs attention. If it was actual cheating, I'd be done because he's shown me who he is/how important I am (or am not, in this instance) to him.
 
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Sagittarius84

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I'd still help the guy, but I would't let the issue slide. If it was "just" flirting, I'd probably try work through it and see if I wasn't meeting his needs or if he's a dawg that needs attention. If it was actual cheating, I'd be done because he's shown me who he is/how important I am (or am not, in this instance) to him.
What's the difference really? When all things are considered what separates the flirter from the cheater aside from the third party's willingness to engage with them or more opportune scheduling?
 

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Maybe if we remove self from the equation...I think the common personal stance on infidelity around is either going to universally proclaim "doneness" with the cheating spouse, or preclude the possibility one could be the cheating spouse in that situation
Ok lets picture a similar scenario except: your brother/son in law calls you one day, frantic about how your sister/daughter was assaulted(heaven forbid and knock on wood for you all). You obviously console him and motivate him to be a supportive and loving spouse to your sister/daughter. He takes said advice and goes about being said supportive spouse in wake of your sister's/daughter's recovery.. A couple days later he calls back asking for your advice, as he has just found evidence of your sister's/daughter's infidelity, either in actual physical terms or at least the intention was made clear from the evidence he came across inadvertently. What then do you advise him as far as dealing with your sister/daughter?
 

Sagittarius84

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It depends on the situation. For me, if I discovered my SO was cheating or potentially cheating I would not let that fly. The only time I might would be if he had just lost a close family member (not an elderly one). But I would bring it to once things have settled down a bit.... I’ve never been in such a situation though so can’t really say for sure.... but I hope that’s what I’d do.
When you say "not let that fly" what are you meaning?
 

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Maybe if we remove self from the equation...I think the common personal stance on infidelity around is either going to universally proclaim "doneness" with the cheating spouse, or preclude the possibility one could be the cheating spouse in that situation
Ok lets picture a similar scenario except: your brother/son in law calls you one day, frantic about how your sister/daughter was assaulted(heaven forbid and knock on wood for you all). You obviously console him and motivate him to be a supportive and loving spouse to your sister/daughter. He takes said advice and goes about being said supportive spouse in wake of your sister's/daughter's recovery.. A couple days later he calls back asking for your advice, as he has just found evidence of your sister's/daughter's infidelity, either in actual physical terms or at least the intention was made clear from the evidence he came across inadvertently. What then do you advise him as far as dealing with your sister/daughter?
I don’t understand why you are asking this as your initial post was in regard to our personal feelings and experiences. I can’t answer a hypothetical scenario truthfully unless I’ve actually experienced something like that. Your question that I’ve quoted too is confusing with the interchangeable sister/daughter. I also have neither.

ETA: if I had a sister or daughter, my loyalty would lie with her regardless of what happened (unless she assaulted someone if it wasn’t in self defence for example).
 

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I don’t understand why you are asking this as your initial post was in regard to our personal feelings and experiences. I can’t answer a hypothetical scenario truthfully unless I’ve actually experienced something like that. Your question that I’ve quoted too is confusing with the interchangeable sister/daughter. I also have neither.
Well given where I asked and the subject matter, it wasn't until after I posted and the initial response came in that I realized that no answer is really going to deviate from the absolutely no infidelity stance most women take towards their male partners within this forum...so I was trying to frame the question in a way where one wouldn't overlook their possible pasts or apply their personal rules in trying to answer.
It's really easy for women to gang up on and have solidarity against cheating men(no matter the circumstances that generated the infidelity), probably infinitely moreso amongst a population of women within a forum like this, so I switched up the premise a bit to get the question to be a little less closer to home.
You can substitute the daughter/sister with any relative or close friend the question would still be, in the wake of a trauma, or tragedy, one that requires the support of a significant other/spouse, if said significant/other spouse comes across evidence of infidelity by your relative/close friend, do you advise them in the same manner you would presumably conduct yourself, or does your vested interest in the recovery and happiness of your relative/close friend impell you to advise the spouse/significant other to take a gentler appraoch than if you had found the evidence against your own significant other?
 
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Depends on the relationship. An established relationship and say, a life threatening condition? I would stick a pin in it. Regardless of how angry or betrayed I feel, I don't want anyone to die with my words of anger ringing in their ears. I don't instantly stop loving someone who hurts me and wish them suffering. I'm not letting it slide, I'm not discussing it, full stop at that point in time.

Until he's ok. At which point, I'm probably dumping him lol.

I've had someone betray my trust and their sibling died the day after I found out. I was there for him because... Priorities. I just wouldn't discuss the future at that time and ultimately it was still over.
 

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ETA: if I had a sister or daughter, my loyalty would lie with her regardless of what happened (unless she assaulted someone if it wasn’t in self defence for example).
Would you mind expounding on this a bit? I happen to have both a daughter and a sister and I don't think it's necessarily disloyal to advise one of their prospective or existing SO/spouse to go ahead and leave them sooner rather than later if evidence of infidelity is found..
Are you saying in the face of evidence you're just going to deny and/or advocate for your sister's/daughter's innocence on her behalf?
 
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Scarletbegonia

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Would you mind expounding on this a bit? I happen to have both a daughter and a sister and I don't think it's necessarily disloyal to advise one of their prospective or existing SO/spouse to go ahead and leave them sooner rather than later if evidence of infidelity is found..
Are you saying in the face of evidence you're just going to deny and/or advocate for your sister's/daughter's innocence on her behalf?

Are you saying you would side with the “in-law” but not have it out with your origin family member?

in that situation, I’d be advising my sibling or spawn to get their head out of their rectum and get their life right.

In the OP situation, it would depend on the depth of the relationship, the likelihood that casual flirting would evolve to something, and honestly, who it was. If it was someone who triggers jealousy, I’d have a big fat issue with it.
Trying to correlate, if my guy had a health crisis, I’d be there for him.
If I saw suspicious activity on his phone, we would be having some uncomfortable discussions.
If there was proof, I’d walk from the relationship, but I might be there as his friend.
 
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I think I couldn’t temporarily overlook the transgression. Knowing myself, I’d give my partner the choice on whether he wanted me there through the tragedy and put off discussions of the potential cheating until he had the ability to discuss it. But I wouldn’t be able to hold it in. I could stay there through it, though. I love this person.

And despite how I feel about cheating, I do believe a marriage can survive it. But so much depends on the cheating partner’s willing to work on rebuilding trust, examine the reasons for cheating, and be willing to attend couple’s therapy, if not individual therapy as well. I have seen marriages come out stronger, with better communication, better sex, but the work was intense and both partners had to be deeply committed to it.

But if after all that? If he’s not able or unwilling? If he violates the terms of ‘working on it’ together? I’m done. Walk away. I will not be somebody’s fool.
 

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Would you mind expounding on this a bit? I happen to have both a daughter and a sister and I don't think it's necessarily disloyal to advise one of their prospective or existing SO/spouse to go ahead and leave them sooner rather than later if evidence of infidelity is found..
Are you saying in the face of evidence you're just going to deny and/or advocate for your sister's/daughter's innocence on her behalf?
Look dude, I said straight up that I’m having difficulty answering such hypotheticals. First of all, I would never tell a family members SO to leave them. Ever (except when concerning domestic violence). That’s not my place. But your scenario would clearly have many different things to consider and it’s not as simple as being on one persons side vs the other. These situations usually aren’t black and white. And then it would also depend what kind of relationship I had with my hypothetical daughter or sister and their SO. I can’t answer this.
 
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AlteredEgo

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What's the difference really? When all things are considered what separates the flirter from the cheater aside from the third party's willingness to engage with them or more opportune scheduling?
That's not necessarily so. I flirt with lots of people with no intention to act. In fact, that has gotten me backed into a corner a few times, and I've had to look those men in the eye, and tell them, "We were just having a little racy fun. In actuality, I'm flirty, but happily married. I thought that was understood. I apologize if you feel led on." You know. Or I vanish. If somebody on the internet takes things too far, I just block them.
 

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That's not necessarily so. I flirt with lots of people with no intention to act. In fact, that has gotten me backed into a corner a few times, and I've had to look those men in the eye, and tell them, "We were just having a little racy fun. In actuality, I'm flirty, but happily married. I thought that was understood. I apologize if you feel led on." You know. Or I vanish. If somebody on the internet takes things too far, I just block them.
Yeah I’m a huge flirt. I think sometimes I take banter too far so it turns into unintentional flirting, even with girlfriends. But not in a creepy way. I’m comfortable enough around my friends and vice versa for it not to be an issue.
 
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My nephew's mother has proof that my brother has done some things that I'm too ashamed of to even admit to here. So shameful. I don't want my little brother to be one of those men. It's gross. He's still my little brother, I still love him, and I'd probably still hide bodies under a new gazebo for him, but dayum, Son!

So yeah. I supported her decision to give up on their relationship. He's not worthy of her, or any woman right now. To be clear, she didn't ask me if she should leave. She said she wanted to. I said I would still be a sister to her, and an auntie to her sons, INCLUDING the one not actually related to me, forever and ever, Amen. I asked her to arrange a monthly FaceTime with me so that we would not grow apart as a family.

With my brother? I told him he had dishonored himself, his sisters, the mothers of his sons, and his own mother. I told him what he had done was probably illegal, DEFINITELY immoral, and that he needed to decide RIGHT NOW, right now, precisely what kind of man he wanted to be, and what kind of men my nephews should be. I told him to apologize to his ex, and to mean it. I told him to put his entire life in order. His job is okay, but he has two sons and an additional one he's been a father to for the past 6+ years. He needs a higher income, better benefits, and a sound fiscal plan for his retirement years, and a sound fiscal plan for educating these people. I told him he could no longer rest on being attractive and fun, stylish and resourceful. The time has come for him to focus on his personal development, because frankly, despite her flaws, he was never good enough for that woman, and he squandered every chance she gave him to be on a winning team. I told him all of that. In the past, whenever she got tired of his shit, wary of his suspicious behavior, I always encouraged him to go get her back. Not this time. He went too far.

And on top of the terrible things he did, the things I'm too ashamed to spell out, he cheated on her with an old friend. His lady has proof of that, too.

She is driven, focused, a good mother, and would have made an excellent wife had she not decided to break off the engagement. She pressed him to pursue his education, to advance (okay, begin) his career, and inspired him to really begin to shoulder his responsibilities. She made him want to do better for himself, and guided him so that he could. She was a real team player, pocket Aces, the bomb. She gave him a taste of the middle class world she and I came from, when he really only ever knew poverty and dream deferment. She complained to me a lot over the years, but I always encouraged her to work things out before making any hasty decisions. But after he betrayed her, and let us all down, I knew there was nothing to work out.

So, yes. If my relative is fucking up, my relative is fucking up. I never advise his women to leave. I just understand when they want to. Sometimes I encourage them to have an objective look, to try to isolate emotion and prioritize what matters and how much. I suggest if they think the future looks better apart, they discuss with him why. I suggest if they have unmet needs, or have discovered boundaries, they make these clear, and carefully negotiate the terms of reconciliation. When it comes to the two mothers of my nephews, they aren't women I would have chosen to befriend, but they are family, and I let them know they always will be.

This is how I deal with the women my brother chooses. Carefully. Compassionately. I try not to choose sides.