Donald trump proves he is not qualified to be president on the view

Woodland

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Vinyl,

Page 1 of the survey states:

"Interviews with 1,018 adult Americans,including 335 Democrats, 398 Independents, and 285 Republicans, nducted by telephone by Opinion Research Corporation on July 16-21, 2010."

Page 2 shows a little table (which didn't copy and paste properly) It breaks dows the percentages, and for the column "All Americans", the percent indicating that they feel Obama was "Definitely born in the U.S." is only 42%, which would mean that the other 56% have SOME doubt (2% have no opinion)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

If a random poll showed the a majority of people believe in unicorns, I would argue that a majority of people believe in unicorns, whether or not I agreed with it.

I never said his religion mattered, and I wasn't the person who brought it up. He can be whatever religion he choose and can change it hourly if he so desires.

I pointed out a poll indicating a sampling of American's views on a topic. I was told that the poll was only for Republicans, but that was incorrect. Then I was told that stupid people question Obama, and that for the record "Everyone knows Obama is an American, a Christian and was born in the United States. Period", as if that would be the proof needed to end the discussion.

I get it, it is stupid to question Obama (according to this board). It is racist to question his birth place (according to Whoopi).
 

B_VinylBoy

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Vinyl,

Page 1 of the survey states:

"Interviews with 1,018 adult Americans,including 335 Democrats, 398 Independents, and 285 Republicans, nducted by telephone by Opinion Research Corporation on July 16-21, 2010."

Page 2 shows a little table (which didn't copy and paste properly) It breaks dows the percentages, and for the column "All Americans", the percent indicating that they feel Obama was "Definitely born in the U.S." is only 42%, which would mean that the other 56% have SOME doubt (2% have no opinion)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

If a random poll showed the a majority of people believe in unicorns, I would argue that a majority of people believe in unicorns, whether or not I agreed with it.

I never said his religion mattered, and I wasn't the person who brought it up. He can be whatever religion he choose and can change it hourly if he so desires.

I pointed out a poll indicating a sampling of American's views on a topic. I was told that the poll was only for Republicans, but that was incorrect. Then I was told that stupid people question Obama, and that for the record "Everyone knows Obama is an American, a Christian and was born in the United States. Period", and that would be the end of the discussion.

I get it, it is stupid to question Obama (according to this board). It is racist to question his birth place (according to Whoopi).

Well I got that portion of it wrong. Apparently, Bill Maher and some of the other news stations got that tidbit wrong as well. Regardless, it has already been illustrated and proven where Obama was born and what his religious background is. After three years of this being a phony issue by other people who ignorantly imply that a person that looks different and isn't Christian are not "real Americans", there are facts we can use in order to properly dispute the findings of any poll regardless of the source. I'm using those facts right now.

We live in a country where we give stupid people a voice on matters they know nothing about in an attempt to look objective. Again, when does logic and intellectualism come into play here? Opinions are useless if they are devoid of anything factual. Don't just shove some random poll in my face that surveys less than one thousandth of a population and expect me to accept it as doctrine. Obama is an American, a Christian and was born in the United States. Can you prove otherwise and not with fear mongered talking points that imply that he looks and talks differently? If not, then I don't care what you and the other portion of uneducated people taking an online poll think.
 
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Woodland

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As far as the "other people who ignorantly imply that a person that looks different and isn't Christian are not "real Americans".." What is the argument for McCain eligibility? He was born to two Americans, but was in the Panama Canal zone...

A Citizen, but ‘Natural Born’? McCain’s Eligibility to Be President Is Disputed by Professor - NYTimes.com

However "In April (2008), the Senate approved a nonbinding resolution declaring that Mr. McCain is eligible to be president. Why was McCain questioned? Because of his religion? his appearance?

Obama admitted to being born to a Kenyan father (British subject at the time), and Obama was adopted by an Indonesian and lived in Indonesia.

I'm sorry if someone stating "Obama is an American, a Christian and was born in the United States. Period." is not enough to remove all doubts.

We can agree to disagree. I am perfectly fine with that. I'm glad we (or I, as I don't know your whereabouts) live in a country that still allows for open discussion of "hot button" issues.

I like to debate different topics, not just politics, and not just serious ideas. However, being called "stupid" becuase I happen to disagree with a person, is not my idea of debate.
 

vince

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Vinyl,

Page 1 of the survey states:

"Interviews with 1,018 adult Americans,including 335 Democrats, 398 Independents, and 285 Republicans, nducted by telephone by Opinion Research Corporation on July 16-21, 2010."

Page 2 shows a little table (which didn't copy and paste properly) It breaks dows the percentages, and for the column "All Americans", the percent indicating that they feel Obama was "Definitely born in the U.S." is only 42%, which would mean that the other 56% have SOME doubt (2% have no opinion)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/08/04/rel10k1a.pdf

If a random poll showed the a majority of people believe in unicorns, I would argue that a majority of people believe in unicorns, whether or not I agreed with it.

I never said his religion mattered, and I wasn't the person who brought it up. He can be whatever religion he choose and can change it hourly if he so desires.

I pointed out a poll indicating a sampling of American's views on a topic. I was told that the poll was only for Republicans, but that was incorrect. Then I was told that stupid people question Obama, and that for the record "Everyone knows Obama is an American, a Christian and was born in the United States. Period", as if that would be the proof needed to end the discussion.

I get it, it is stupid to question Obama (according to this board). It is racist to question his birth place (according to Whoopi).

All of the above polling data just serves to underline the point I made earlier-
I've learned never to underestimate the stupidity of the American electorate.
 

hypoc8

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Well I got that portion of it wrong. Apparently, Bill Maher and some of the other news stations got that tidbit wrong as well. Regardless, it has already been illustrated and proven where Obama was born and what his religious background is. After three years of this being a phony issue by other people who ignorantly imply that a person that looks different and isn't Christian are not "real Americans", there are facts we can use in order to properly dispute the findings of any poll regardless of the source. I'm using those facts right now.

We live in a country where we give stupid people a voice on matters they know nothing about in an attempt to look objective. Again, when does logic and intellectualism come into play here? Opinions are useless if they are devoid of anything factual. Don't just shove some random poll in my face that surveys less than one thousandth of a population and expect me to accept it as doctrine. Obama is an American, a Christian and was born in the United States. Can you prove otherwise and not with fear mongered talking points that imply that he looks and talks differently? If not, then I don't care what you and the other portion of uneducated people taking an online poll think.

So why are these people stupid and uneducated?

Can you prove Obama was born in the US and is a Christian? I can't and I doubt you can either. All anyone can go on is what he has told us and that doesn't make it so. Sitting in church on a Sunday morning doesn't make anyone a Christian, it doesn't work that way.

I really don't see the point of calling people stupid and uneducated because they don't believe everything they have been fed through the local newspapers and the controlled news media or have the same opinion that you do.
 

nicenycdick

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Getting just slightly back to the topic of this thread: I have done business with Mr. Trump in the past. I do not consider him to be presidential material. He is very much concerned with winning at any cost, without regard to equity and fairplay. Despite his obvious success, he is a man without moral substance or a high regard for others.

If he were to run and win...I'd have to consider moving to Canada.
 

B_VinylBoy

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So why are these people stupid and uneducated? Can you prove Obama was born in the US and is a Christian?

Given the broad options a person is given in this country for spiritual enlightenment, a non-Christian doesn't voluntarily go to a Christian church for 20+ years for spiritual guidance. Also, the state of Hawaii already vouched for his birth and citizenship.

Stop injecting doubt when there is none to be had.

I can't and I doubt you can either.

I already have.

All anyone can go on is what he has told us and that doesn't make it so. Sitting in church on a Sunday morning doesn't make anyone a Christian, it doesn't work that way.

I would say that about any religion. But since it's not a requirement to be a Christian to become president in this country, whether or not anyone believes Obama is not a true Christian is irrelevant. And do keep in mind... the words you see before you come from someone who is technically a Christian. Non practicing, of course, for obvious reasons.

I really don't see the point of calling people stupid and uneducated because they don't believe everything they have been fed through the local newspapers and the controlled news media or have the same opinion that you do.

The facts are there for everyone to see, however, some treasure their flawed opinions on subject matters because they think their voice has more relevance than the facts. In that case, I will call them stupid and uneducated. I make no excuses or apologize to those socially bigoted and paranoidal people who would rather embrace conspiracy theories or illogical sentiments based on how a person looks, talks or because they may not be "holier than thou". It's all bullshit. With all of the real issues going on in this country, with Libya, the economy, job creation and the culture war against abortion, I really don't give a damn whether or not someone wants to beat their pseudo-nationalistic chest and tout about someone not being "as American" as the next. It's the equivalent of two jocks who can't get laid having a dick measuring contest. It's a non-issue.

nicenycdick said:
Getting just slightly back to the topic of this thread: I have done business with Mr. Trump in the past. I do not consider him to be presidential material. He is very much concerned with winning at any cost, without regard to equity and fairplay. Despite his obvious success, he is a man without moral substance or a high regard for others.

If he were to run and win...I'd have to consider moving to Canada.

Many people seem to forget that Trump has gone bankrupt at least three times. All this big talk about knowing how to run companies and how to make money, yet most of the well off and somewhat wealthy people I know never once had to file for bankruptcy. I sense all of his talk about running for president being nothing more than attention grabbing and grandstanding. However, if he really did try to run I could only hope that people aren't duped by the dollar signs on the television screen. Then again, we still have birthers around here so I won't hold my breath there.
 
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Woodland

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Vinyl,

You stated "Well I got that portion of it wrong. Apparently, Bill Maher and some of the other news stations got that tidbit wrong as well. "

Is this the same media that is contantly telling us that Obama IS an America? and Christian? Why is it stupid for a majority of Americans to have doubts, when even you admit that YOUR sources are wrong?
 

Woodland

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Vinyl,

Obama said he went to that church for 20 years. That is the only "proof" we have. But when the topic of Rev. Wright's controversial sermons comes up, Obama had no recolection of them. Did Obama happen to miss the ONE day Rev. Wright went off on a tangent?
 

vince

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So why are these people stupid and uneducated?
That's a subject for a whole other thread. :smile:

Can you prove Obama was born in the US and is a Christian? I can't and I doubt you can either. All anyone can go on is what he has told us and that doesn't make it so. Sitting in church on a Sunday morning doesn't make anyone a Christian, it doesn't work that way.

I really don't see the point of calling people stupid and uneducated because they don't believe everything they have been fed through the local newspapers and the controlled news media or have the same opinion that you do.
But they do believe what they have been fed. They are choosing the feed that re-enforces what they want to believe. They don't like that an intellectual black lawyer is the President of the U.S.A. and they look to and believe sources of information that try to de-legitimize his election, in spite of what the State of Hawaii, the US Congress, and the court system have said on the matter.

No one has to go on what he has told you. You can go on what the State of Hawaii, the US Congress, and the court system have told you.

They don't believe it because it doesn't suit them to believe it.
 
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B_VinylBoy

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Woodland - Give up. The doubt & concern about Obama's citizenship and religious upbringing only comes from equally bigoted people who have concerns about someone not looking, thinking and speaking like themselves. That doesn't change despite the fact that I may have made a mistake in sourcing the types of people who took an online poll.

Considering your staunch defense of a poll that basically asks if some people believe in a falsehood, I can now consider you as being one of those bigoted people as well... and I have absolutely no tolerance for intolerable people. Polls do not dictate what is true or false in this country. Your opinion on this subject matter has no factual basis whatsoever despite being a majority in a poll, therefore I don't give a damn what you think. Also at this point, I don't care if you don't like the fact that I'm using words to describe you (or your argument) that you have a problem with. The shoe fits you well.

vince said:
But they do believe what they have been fed. They are choosing the feed they re-inforces what they want to believe. They don't like that an intellectual black lawyer is the President of the U.S.A. and they look to and believe sources of information that try to de-legitimize his election, in spite of what the State of Hawaii, the US Congress, and the court system have said on the matter. No one has to go on what he has told you. You can go on what the State of Hawaii, the US Congress, and the court system have told you. They don't believe it because it doesn't suit them to believe it.

QFT! Thank God I'm not saying it because I'm sure if I did then I would be labeled a "victim" and a "racist" myself. Must be a very easy life for some people to live in the state of "denial", eh?
 
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Woodland

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"Woodland - Give up. " ? Why? Because I have doubts?

You admitted that YOUR source (Bill Maher is to be trusted as unbiased now?) was wrong.

When Bill Maher said that the CNN poll was from question ALL Republicans, did you research it? If I hadn't pointed it out to you, how long would you have continued to use Bill Maher's opinion as YOUR fact?

I'm bigoted, stupid, and hate people who aren't just like me...because I don't take Bill Maher and other "media outlets" as irrefutible fact?
 

B_VinylBoy

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"Woodland - Give up. " ? Why? Because I have doubts?

You admitted that YOUR source (Bill Maher is to be trusted as unbiased now?) was wrong.

He's not my one and only admitted source. I said that Bill Maher and other news sources got that wrong. Here's the link to my original statement for you to remind yourself. Don't ever distort my comments to fit your bigoted beliefs again.

I'm bigoted, stupid, and hate people who aren't just like me...because I don't take Bill Maher and other "media outlets" as irrefutible fact?

The irrefutable facts have been presented by the State of Hawaii and the US Congress... not a political comedian who also points out the fact that people like you are stupid for believing the propagated nonsense spoon fed to you by other bigoted people in power. I know you hate being called bigoted and stupid... but ya ARE, Blanche! :rolleyes:
 

nicenycdick

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...Many people seem to forget that Trump has gone bankrupt at least three times. All this big talk about knowing how to run companies and how to make money, yet most of the well off and somewhat wealthy people I know never once had to file for bankruptcy. I sense all of his talk about running for president being nothing more than attention grabbing and grandstanding. However, if he really did try to run I could only hope that people aren't duped by the dollar signs on the television screen. Then again, we still have birthers around here so I won't hold my breath there.

In his defense (a postion I'd never like to truly find myself in), Mr. Trump has never personally declared bankruptcy. Each bankruptcy proceeding was in the name of some business entity to which he provided visibility and promotion. His typical routine is to contribute his name, connections and some developmental responsitilities to a project (never any funds or economic liability) and take a small but substantial percentage for his input. When the project fails (as any project can), he is never on the line financially and, hence, he is never forced to seek bankruptcy protection.

Slippery kinda guy...
 

hypoc8

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That's a subject for a whole other thread. :smile:

But they do believe what they have been fed. They are choosing the feed they re-inforces what they want to believe. They don't like that an intellectual black lawyer is the President of the U.S.A. and they look to and believe sources of information that try to de-legitimize his election, in spite of what the State of Hawaii, the US Congress, and the court system have said on the matter.

No one has to go on what he has told you. You can go on what the State of Hawaii, the US Congress, and the court system have told you.

They don't believe it because it doesn't suit them to believe it.

Oh, so this is a racial issue. I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. Damn, I guess I must be one of those stupid and uneducated people out there.

Just to let you know where I stand on this issue I'm on the fence. The birth certificate in my opinion is questionable. His being\not being a Christian doesn't concern me, in fact those that walk around thumpimg their chest telling everyone they are usually the ones to look out for. Just an observation from working with those types that do.
 

B_VinylBoy

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Oh, so this is a racial issue. I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. Damn, I guess I must be one of those stupid and uneducated people out there.

"Stupid" was the operative word here. So sorry if you don't like the adjectives used in its place.

Just to let you know where I stand on this issue I'm on the fence.

So you think the US Congress and the State of Hawaii are lying to you?

The birth certificate in my opinion is questionable.

Why? Because it's not one you've never seen or touched before? It doesn't look like yours? Don't like how it's worded? The State of Hawaii defend it. Again, you think they're lying?

His being\not being a Christian doesn't concern me, in fact those that walk around thumpimg their chest telling everyone they are usually the ones to look out for.

Nobody would ever have to go around proving that they are something if there weren't people continually accusing them of being something else. I'm sure Obama doesn't want to keep reminding anyone that he's an American and a Christian. However, if the polls continue and people are dumb enough to fall for the nonsense he has no choice but to defend himself. Obama never made this an issue. Birthers, some teabaggers and other religious & social bigots did for now a third year. And since more people want to listen to these illogical loudmouths instead of the US Congress and the state of Hawaii, it's up to those who aren't so paranoid of government to remind the rest of the lunatics that some things are not worth obsessing over... like how "American" our president is.
 

hypoc8

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"Stupid" was the operative word here. So sorry if you don't like the adjectives used in its place.

Well, Ive been called worse.



So you think the US Congress and the State of Hawaii are lying to you?

Possibly, wouldn't be the first time we'd been lied to.


Why? Because it's not one you've never seen or touched before? It doesn't look like yours? Don't like how it's worded? The State of Hawaii defend it. Again, you think they're lying?

1. It isn't a copy of a birth certificate. It was created on a modern printer.
2. I find the wording for his fathers race of "African" to be somewhat odd in my opinion. I would think that the term "Negro" would be more the norm back in '61. African is no more a race than American, German or Italian.
3. Why does it say in the lower left hand corner "Revised 11/01"? What was changed and why?
4. Why are there no records of his mother giving birth in any hospital in the Honolulu area? Does this not seem a little odd?
5. Why has Obama spent $2 million dollars in legal fees avoiding this simple task of publicly displaying his birth certificate?



Nobody would ever have to go around proving that they are something if there weren't people continually accusing them of being something else. I'm sure Obama doesn't want to keep reminding anyone that he's an American and a Christian. However, if the polls continue and people are dumb enough to fall for the nonsense he has no choice but to defend himself. Obama never made this an issue. Birthers, some teabaggers and other religious & social bigots did for now a third year. And since more people want to listen to these illogical loudmouths instead of the US Congress and the state of Hawaii, it's up to those who aren't so paranoid of government to remind the rest of the lunatics that some things are not worth obsessing over... like how "American" our president is.


Maybe, maybe not.
 

B_VinylBoy

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1. It isn't a copy of a birth certificate. It was created on a modern printer.

That proves nothing. I wouldn't expect most organizations to have xerox copies of documents more than 50 years old ready to photocopy. As long as the state validates it, it passes as an acceptable document. Your need to see an old document in shoddy condition to imply its age is not relevant.

2. I find the wording for his fathers race of "African" to be somewhat odd in my opinion. I would think that the term "Negro" would be more the norm back in '61. African is no more a race than American, German or Italian.

Wow. LOL!!!!
Completely ignoring your thoroughly illogical attempt to appear colorblind, you think his father not being referred to as a negro makes it questionable? Ain't it grand how you think you should be able to approve how a person identifies themselves? And you REALLY don't want people to think that this issue has no racist sentiments embedded within it? Don't ever complain about someone using the r-word again to describe this bigoted issue. You just proven why so many people who disagree with you says that it is.

3. Why does it say in the lower left hand corner "Revised 11/01"? What was changed and why?

It appears that context is not your strong suit. To revise doesn't mean that something has been changed factually. In most instances, something that is "revised" is done so to make corrections, improve, or update the original source. Again, just because you're too untrusting and paranoid doesn't mean that there's a nationwide crisis worth speaking about. The "certificate of live birth" is not the original document, so it's required of them to let people know that. The state of Hawaii validates it as well as the US Congress. Unless you want to press charges or have anything beyond what has already been said, this case is closed.

4. Why are there no records of his mother giving birth in any hospital in the Honolulu area? Does this not seem a little odd?

No. Nearly 10 million U.S. citizens live abroad and have children in their current home country. A child born in a foreign country with one U.S. citizen parent is entitled to American citizenship. There are other grey areas to this rule, but one thing is for certain... there is no law that says that a child has to be born on U.S. soil by two parents who are U.S citizens to be eligible for president. That's a faulty interpretation used by the bigoted to suit their own beliefs. Is Your Child a U.S. Citizen if Born Abroad? | LegalZoom

5. Why has Obama spent $2 million dollars in legal fees avoiding this simple task of publicly displaying his birth certificate?

Because some people continue to bring lawsuits against him and use sources who are just as bigoted as they are to get through the court system to require action. Are you through, or do you want to continue making an idiot of yourself? Obama is a Christian, American citizen born in the United States. Deal with it.
 
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hypoc8

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That proves nothing. I wouldn't expect most organizations to have xerox copies of documents more than 50 years old ready to photocopy. As long as the state validates it, it passes as an acceptable document. Your need to see an old document in shoddy condition to imply its age is not relevant.

This whole document doesn't prove anything and no, it doesn't have to tattered and torn to be real.



Wow. LOL!!!!
Completely ignoring your thoroughly illogical attempt to appear colorblind, you think his father not being referred to as a negro makes it questionable? Ain't it grand how you think you should be able to approve how a person identifies themselves? And you REALLY don't want people to think that this issue has no racist sentiments embedded within it? Don't ever complain about someone using the r-word again to describe this bigoted issue. You just proven why so many people who disagree with you says that it is.

Cheese & crackers, wtf are you ranting about? All I said was I found it odd that they had African as his race. African is not a race, period! Why you feel this is racist is beyond me.



It appears that context is not your strong suit. To revise doesn't mean that something has been changed factually. In most instances, something that is "revised" is done so to make corrections, improve, or update the original source. Again, just because you're too untrusting and paranoid doesn't mean that there's a nationwide crisis worth speaking about. The "certificate of live birth" is not the original document, so it's required of them to let people know that. The state of Hawaii validates it as well as the US Congress. Unless you want to press charges or have anything beyond what has already been said, this case is closed.

I'm not paranoid, just asking the question. It could be innocent, then again maybe not.



No. Nearly 10 million U.S. citizens live abroad and have children in their current home country. A child born in a foreign country with one U.S. citizen parent is entitled to American citizenship. There are other grey areas to this rule, but one thing is for certain... there is no law that says that a child has to be born on U.S. soil by two parents who are U.S citizens to be eligible for president. That's a faulty interpretation used by the bigoted to suit their own beliefs. Is Your Child a U.S. Citizen if Born Abroad? | LegalZoom

I have no clue why this was brought up. I've never questioned his mothers citizenship. I said that there are no records of her giving birth in any hospital in the Honolulu area where he is supposidly to have been born.

Because some people continue to bring lawsuits against him and use sources who are just as bigoted as they are to get through the court system to require action. Are you through, or do you want to continue making an idiot of yourself? Obama is a Christian, American citizen born in the United States. Deal with it.

And just how do you know that these people are bigots and racist? Have you any real proof or is this another one of your opinions that because you believe it it must be so?

I am far from being an idiot, I like many other voters in this country do have legitiment questions and concerns and have a right to ask them. Just because you believe everything that you have been told and read about Obama is true and swallowed it hook, line and sinker does not give you the right to label those that have doubts about this man as idiots, uneducated and the like.

And you sir can DEAL WITH THAT!