Don't Ask, Don't Tell

[Kassokilleri2ff]

Yes, because that's ALL we ever think and do. For straight people, their sexuality is irrelevant and only affects bedroom activities. But us gays are on a non-stop 24-hour fuck-fest and our sexuality affects EVERYTHING we do. It affects our work, it affects our taste in music, it affects our taste in clothes, our taste in films, tv shows...

Having us in the military - and we already are in the military so DADT is a completely fucking useless anyway - would seriously affect our ability to defend (if you can call invading another country 'defense') and put the US (and the rest of the world) at risk. I'm sure if I was on a dangerous patrol everyday in the middle of a hot and dry desert, having to keep watch for roadside attacks and bombs, all I would be thinking about is how hot my commander's butt is...

I don't know why you are getting mad at me. You seem to have misunderstood my whole post.

 

[maxcok]

I'm sure if I was on a dangerous patrol everyday in the middle of a hot and dry desert, having to keep watch for roadside attacks and bombs, all I would be thinking about is how hot my commander's butt is...

I bet if you were my commander that's all I'd be thinking about. :biggrin2:

 

[JTalbain]

I also find it bizarre that Jews in the US have typically been Democrats. The Republicans and other right wingers use Israel as the home of "God's Chosen People"as their primary reason when it comes to the US providing protection and billions of dollars in aid.

People seldom accuse Jews of being stupid. :tongue:

Unfortunately, the repeal of DADT may become a non-issue after the elections this November. If the Republicans take back enough seats, well, I don't see much hope.

I think that it's more or less impossible for them to stop at this point. DADT is set to be repealed pending the results of a 9 month study that is only truly intended to allow military men and women to have a voice in the change. The most that the Republican party would realistically gain in the Senate would be about 10 seats. Even if they managed to pass a measure to halt the study, Obama would merely veto it, and they would be unable to garner the votes to override it. I think that the delay in DADT's inevitable repeal at this point may actually be calculated, giving the Democratic party something to crow about in the next presidential election. In fact, they could leverage it even further if the Republicans were foolish enough to attempt to reinstate it through legislation, branding the Republican Party as gay haters. I think the elephant is going to let this one pass.

I don't know why you are getting mad at me. You seem to have misunderstood my whole post.

I think that anger is directed more at the stereotype than you.

 

[cruztbone]

LADY GAGA FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY; GOOD BYE ROBERT GATES. if we can just get the two GOP ladies from maine to vote their conscience , we will win. thank goodness i have Boxer and Feinstein as senators; they get it.

 

[Thedrewbert]

Best quote ever regarding DADT by a straight Marine: "If a guy is going to save my ass, he sure as hell can look at it!"

 

[B_Nick8]

Despite common wisdom, there have been a number of reports stating that the majority of soldiers serving today either already know someone in their unit who is gay and/or wouldn't care if there were as long as they were a good soldier, one whom they could count on to do a good job and whom they could depend on in a crunch. Just as there are no atheists in a foxhole, no one much cares about sexuality when their life is at stake.

To a large degree, it's the leadership, the old guard, who is more concerned with this issue as regards unit cohesion and "morale". The 18 to 22 year olds who make up the majority of the men and women in uniform have grown up in an era where gays are highly visible, known and accepted in society and they are considerably more enlightened than their elders. Attitudes are changing more quickly from the bottom up than the reverse.

This is an article I thought was particularly illuminating:

http://www.advocate.com/Print_Issue/Cover_Stories/Straight_Guys_Tell/

 

[D_Rod Staffinbone]

i've written about this off and on for the past couple of years (even started a couple of threads on DADT). make no mistake both sides of the aisle in congress have kept this where it is, and both sides of the aisle have used it as a political football. obama has shown NO leadership on gay rights issues. "activist judges" are the only hope when congress and the president fail.

republicans have expressed concern over the possibility of a gag order on soldiers disagreeing with policy if the DADT repeal happened, but are soldiers allowed to be vocal for the repeal of DADT without being booted out of the military or undergoing a review of some sort?

disappointed, yes. my heart goes out to the folks at SLDN for all their hard work on this issue over the past few years.

 

[Countryguy63]

It's all but done for now

 

[gymfresh]

Cloture vote failed 56-43. Defense authorization bill is dead for now. Maybe it wasn't brilliant of Harry Reid to attach DREAM legislation to it, but the Republicans had their own warts they wanted all over it and Collins of Maine was willing to let them have at it. In the end, even Harry Reid voted 'No", in a wise procedural move to allow him to bring it up again. But that won't happen until after the November elections.

Three-quarters of Americans want DADTDP relegated to the dustbin, but the Republicans keep using it as a political football. Remember the children's schoolyard game Red Rover? Where one said taunts an opposing side player into running at them while they hold their arms together in a supposedly impenetrable wall?

This Congress is like the Republicans playing that game. "Red Rover, Red Rover, Send Barry Right Over" (or in this case, Harry). The name of the game is obstruction, not progress.

So the Republicans are willing to cut off all funding to our military, holding up paychecks, so they can grandstand on DADTDP?

And then it's on to healthcare. Repealing the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 would leave us exactly... where?

 

[Industrialsize]

"Passing DREAM and DADT would be far too popular for the Democrats leading into November, and there's no way Republicans--including Collins and Snowe--are going to let that happen. So this fight is being pushed off to the lame duck session."

Daily Kos: GOP blocks defense authorization in Senate

 

[Bbucko]

Our elected officials are cowards: all of them.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^Nothing new there...

 

[B_RedDude]

I'm starting to think that what we need to do in the Senate is get rid of filibusters altogether, or, at the very least, lower the threshold to 55 for cloture.

But, alas, changes to the Senate rules require at 2/3 supermajority, so I guess this won't be happening anytime soon.

 

[faceking]

I think of the costs.... as you'll need 4 separate quarters, vs. just two (men/women).

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

I had to duke it out digitally with someone on the Huffington Post this afternoon who claimed that letting the repeal go through is really a case of the minority faction running away with their tyranny. He said that the Marines have always been against the repeal, yet really couldn't come up with substantive reasons why able-bodied men and women (who happen to be gay and lesbian) can't do the job. Unqualified? Afraid that, omg, they're gonna look at my butt?

I don't get it, but I wish homophobia would just fizzle out already ESPECIALLY given that there isn't this mass surplus to join the Armed Forces right now, and you can't really afford to fire folks on an already-highly-taxed unit.

 

[faceking]

I had to duke it out digitally with someone on the Huffington Post this afternoon who claimed that letting the repeal go through is really a case of the minority faction running away with their tyranny. He said that the Marines have always been against the repeal, yet really couldn't come up with substantive reasons why able-bodied men and women (who happen to be gay and lesbian) can't do the job. Unqualified? Afraid that, omg, they're gonna look at my butt?

I don't get it, but I wish homophobia would just fizzle out already ESPECIALLY given that there isn't this mass surplus to join the Armed Forces right now, and you can't really afford to fire folks on an already-highly-taxed unit.

>>ESPECIALLY given that there isn't this mass surplus to join the Armed Forces right now,

Sorry DEE... you are ESPECIALLY VERY WRONG ON THAT..... enrollment is well and above. Do yer research mate.

According to Army statistics, 70 percent of soldiers eligible to re-enlist in 2006 did so — a re-enlistment rate higher than before Sept. 11, 2001. For the past 10 years, the enlisted retention rates of the Army have exceeded 100 percent.


There are various why this is so... increased bonuses (after all they are a 'public employee') and so forth... but had to call you out on that assumption you've made stating as fact.

 

[maxcok]

According to Army statistics, 70 percent of soldiers eligible to re-enlist in 2006 did so — a re-enlistment rate higher than before Sept. 11, 2001. For the past 10 years, the enlisted retention rates of the Army have exceeded 100 percent.

There are various why this is so... increased bonuses (after all they are a 'public employee') and so forth... but had to call you out on that assumption you've made stating as fact.

Could you explain the maths or provide some citation?

I'm a little confused how retention rates could exceed 100%.

I think of the costs.... as you'll need 4 separate quarters, vs. just two (men/women).

And the gay quarters will be simply fabulous!!!

And don't forget the trannies. They'll need special accommodations. And makeup tables.

 

[B_RedDude]

What separate quarters?

I think of the costs.... as you'll need 4 separate quarters, vs. just two (men/women).

 

[maxcok]

It's all but done for now

There was no hope of opening debate on this, much less passage. Attaching the 'Dream' legislation and repeal of DADT to the military authorization bill was a political move by the Democrats to fire up their base before the mid terms and shine a spotlight on the Republicans. The process is already in the works for repeal of DADT, and I'm reasonably confident it will happen early next year. Patience.

I'm starting to think that what we need to do in the Senate is get rid of filibusters altogether, or, at the very least, lower the threshold to 55 for cloture.

But, alas, changes to the Senate rules require at 2/3 supermajority, so I guess this won't be happening anytime soon.

No, it's not going to be happening. The Senate is dysfunctional and as deeply divided as ever, and frankly, most of them seem to like it that way. Terry Gross of Fresh Air recently did an interview with Greg Koger, the author of Going to the Mattresses: The History of Filibustering in Congress. It's an in-depth study of the nuts and bolts of crazy Senate rules and how they got that way. It's a good read for anyone interested in understanding the political process and why this 'august deliberative' body has become a stagnant political pool where almost nothing important gets done, and if it does, it's half-assed.

Gregory Koger, Explaining The American Filibuster : NPR

​

 

[D_Rod Staffinbone]

we are truly fucked.