"Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

[kalipygian]

Wrey, very moved by your experience and your eloquence, monsterinmypants also.

DCdeep(always eloquent)a royal navy captain is four 1/2" gold stripes, the inner one with a loop, USN same without the loop.

 

[Male Bonding etc]

Seems to me that our military is stretched so thin trying to be "all volunteer" (while sucking poor National Guard and Reserve units away from their homes again and again to feed this war in Iraq) that some give is going to HAVE to happen regarding gays serving. How does it make sense to drum out so many honorable and talented people who are willing and able to serve when part of the reason we can't send more than 22,500 over there is that we simply don't have the people enlisted to send?

Please NOTE, I am in NO way suggesting it is a good idea to send more troops to Iraq! I am simply saying that those who want to send more troops would ask for more if there were more they could ask for.

On the other hand, should someone not wish to serve, even if a draft is reinstated, it remains a simple remedy to say that one is gay. Perhaps we should encourage those enlisted to out themselves as either gay or knowing that others are gay. If enough service personnel do this, two things would happen:
1. There wouldn't be enough people in the services to keep up this farce in Iraq.
2. DADT would quickly be a thing of the past.

 

[Lex]

I guess I disagree, Spoiled. Don't ask, don't tell doesn't depend on anything. It is discrimination pure and simple.

It implicitly encourages people to hide something they should not be ashamed of.
...

Exacly. Why should anyone be forced to hide who they are?

 

[Lex]

...
My teacher said that one should be able to express their feelings about a guy, but even if they were talking about a girl, I still wouldn't wanna hear it. Has nothing to do with the business or task at hand, so it's irrelevant.

...

The fact that you do or don't want to hear it should not limit anyone else's rights to talk, live or express love.

Those are your issues, not theirs.

Imagine if I limited the flowers you could plant in front of your house, or the furniture inside based on what *I* liked?!?

Doesn't that sound rediculous?


It should.

 

[NCbear]

I don't know, Lex. There's a difference between "I'm a private person and don't want to see two people sucking face in public, regardless of gender or sexuality" and "Ewww! ____ type of sex turns me off, so I don't want to see it at all or even know that it exists!" To me, the second reaction is the root of all of the DADT bullshit, while the first is similar to a lot of people's reaction: "Get a room!"

I thought playainda336's response was more the first, IMHO, considering that he's told other straight men to chill when they got upset that gay men were commenting on their pics, reminding them that they knew there were gay men on the site.

NCbear (not meaning to be contrary, just remembering a comment -- and completely understanding the difference between "Get a room!" and DADT)

 

[Lex]

Good point, NCBear. I guess my overall take is that people should not care either way. PDAs should be commonplace and not restricted. The world needs MORE Love.

 

[NCbear]

Yep. I'm waiting for the USA to catch up with other Western industrialized societies and understand that (1) people of alternative sexualities exist and (2) these people also might kiss their partners, hold hands with their partners, or otherwise show the depth of their love in public. Including people who protect our country with their skills and lives.

(Not holding my breath, of course.)

But tonsil hockey? Thrashing around on a blanket in public, clothed or not? Devouring each other? "Get a room! And make sure you take along a week's supply of condoms!" That'd be MY response.

[Well, in most cases. In some, I might say very politely, "Excuse me, but what are your names? Ages? Level of comfort with being videotaped?" :biggrin1: ]

NCbear (whose sense of humor is a little offbeat this morning, but who understands the seriousness of the bigotry at the root of the DADT policy)

 

[Lex]

Well, the entire PDA discussion is another thread. Like DADT, it speaks to people being uncomfortable.

I went to the movies with my BF a few weeks ago and we were buying popcorn (no PDA) and these straight couples were gawking and whispering. Lord knows how they would have reacted if I had stuck my hand in his back pocket.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Well, the entire PDA discussion is another thread. Like DADT, it speaks to people being uncomfortable.

I went to the movies with my BF a few weeks ago and we were buying popcorn (no PDA) and these straight couples were gawking and whispering. Lord knows how they would have reacted if I had stuck my hand in his back pocket.

Was that in DC or Balmer?

 

[Lex]

Was that in DC or Balmer?

DC. The theatre at Union Station.

 

[DC_DEEP]

DC. The theatre at Union Station.

Ah, that explains a LOT! Uh, Union Station area is not exactly a magnet for the finest that humanity has to offer. I know and understand why Union Station, but still, ya gotta expect what ya gotta expect.

For what it's worth, Tawse and I ignored the few stares we got when we went to pick up EJ at Union Station just before MAL. I have not spent much time in the shops and businesses there, though.

 

[LeeEJ]

"Boo" on Union Station. What a crappy theater they have there, too; I only go there because it's convenient (I'm only a few blocks away and can walk) and IF a particular movie isn't playing anywhere else. At least the lower level food court's renovation went relatively well.

But, enough of my lamenting...

 

[DC_DEEP]

"Boo" on Union Station. What a crappy theater they have there, too; I only go there because it's convenient (I'm only a few blocks away and can walk) and IF a particular movie isn't playing anywhere else. At least the lower level food court's renovation went relatively well.

But, enough of my lamenting...

Ha, that just reminded me, all the statues atop the walls inside used to have weenies, but there were too many complaints, so every sculpture had to be "re-sculpted" to hide them with shields. It is a lovely building, though, isn't it?

 

[B_cigarbabe]

As a former serviceman,first let me say that I'm sad for anyone who was affected by DADT. As an American citizen,let me say, thank you for your service and love of country.It's a shame that people in power can't let good decent people serve honorably and faithfully.
I've met some wonderful gay and bisexual men and women on this site,and if the circumstances were right,I would have been proud to have served with anyone of you.....................Mr Ed

 

[Lex]

Ah, that explains a LOT! Uh, Union Station area is not exactly a magnet for the finest that humanity has to offer. I know and understand why Union Station, but still, ya gotta expect what ya gotta expect.

For what it's worth, Tawse and I ignored the few stares we got when we went to pick up EJ at Union Station just before MAL. I have not spent much time in the shops and businesses there, though.

Oh yeah, I know. We were staying at the Phoenix, so US was right across the street. I could careless what they thought. I should have kissed him. Heh.

 

[jfrsndvs]

first thing, I do want to thank all those who have served in the Armed Forces, regardless if they are gay or straight, I take my hat off to those men and women who do serves this country.

next thing, any man or woman regardless of their sexuality should be allowed to serve, I don't believe that anybody needs to around and blab thier mouth that they are either gay or straight, it should not matter at all.

now the one question that I do have in regards to the original post of this thread. Why would a subject like this even be brought in a Spanish class? that has absolutely nothing to do with with the subject being taught. now if this subject was being brought up after class was over that would be another situation. I can understand that teachers have thier own opinions of subjects as D.A.D.T., and they have their right to their own opinion, but that has nothing to do with learning how to speak Spanish.

I don't care what subject it is, if it's not related to that particular subject, it should not even be brought up during class time.

 

[dreamer20]

I can understand that teachers have their own opinions of subjects as D.A.D.T...I don't care what subject it is, if it's not related to that particular subject, it should not even be brought up during class time.

From what I recall, if one's class had a good rapport with a teacher we could discuss other things and even have a few laughs during classtime. Fortunately playainda336 isn't working in the rigid and static classroom environment that you envisage jfrsndvs.
Was the topic a part of conversational Spanish playa?

 

[DC_DEEP]

<...>
now the one question that I do have in regards to the original post of this thread. Why would a subject like this even be brought in a Spanish class? that has absolutely nothing to do with with the subject being taught. now if this subject was being brought up after class was over that would be another situation. I can understand that teachers have thier own opinions of subjects as D.A.D.T., and they have their right to their own opinion, but that has nothing to do with learning how to speak Spanish.

I don't care what subject it is, if it's not related to that particular subject, it should not even be brought up during class time.

He didn't mention what level of Spanish class it was (beginning, intermediate, advanced, or conversational), where he was taking it (public or private school, university, community education). Some intermediate and advanced classes use current events as conversational material and practice. It may have been a discussion of differing viewpoints in Spanish-speaking countries. It may have been entirely appropriate to discuss this issue in a Spanish class.

 

[playainda336]

Just to answer a few questions.

We talked about the Don't Ask Don't Tell thing in my Spanish class not because of the military, but my teacher considers herself an activist for gay rights. We talked about it in practical application of life, business, public places, etc.

She's not gay, she's married with three kids, but she is big on the issue that injustice in one area is injustice everywhere. There was a recent article about two women in Mexico that wanted to get married, we discussed it in class.

I am definitely of the school of "Get a room!" and not "Ewwww gay sex is nasty!" I just feel comfortable with speaking my mind without regard for how what I say is taken sometimes, I guess. (Which seems like it could be a bad thing...x_o) And I definitely tell straight guys to pull the stick out their ass when they think that gay men aren't gonna look at pics they post on the internet.

I think some people still put a stigma on me from when Stronzo labeled me as "homophobic" before. I think I still have that stigma attached to me somehow.

Also to jfrsndvs:

Discussing D.A.D.T. in class is just as bad as discussing politics in class. People have their opinions and people debate. I think only in people truely expressing how they feel on such "touchy" issues will people get over it and eventually see all people as "human".

Plus you can learn a lot from debates.

To all:

GREAT replies. I'm really liking the insight that everyone is giving and I'm learning a lot about the connotations that this theorem entails.

 

[Sklar]

When I served in the USMC (89-93) it was widely known that three or 4 of the seargants in the communications platoon were having affairs on their wives.

No one batted an eye even though everyone joked about it being against the UCMJ.

Then a rumor went around that one of the corpsman was gay and he was relieved of his duty but forced to stay in the company.

Amazing how certain rules are not enforced while others are.