Don't equate actions with religion

[Principessa]

WARNING:This is a patriotic, ethnocentric rant; it will most likely offend many of you.​

"Don't equate actions with religion" Sohail Mohammed, a lawyer - That's darn hard to do when you come into my backyard and try to blow it up. I don't see Unitarians, Lutherans, or Pentecostals doing this stuff. It is always radical fundamentalist Muslims.

I had an idea after 9/11/01 which I made the mistake of voicing. All my liberal friends were horrified I could think, let alone voice such a narrow-minded thing. But I think it's time has come. We need to update and re-vamp the concept of Ellis Island. We need three maybe four points of entry for all legal immigrants. These check points should be staffed by our military not civilians, not college kids, and not that joke entity Homeland Security.

Possible Ports of Entry: Syracuse, NY - Portland, OR - Miami, FL - Newport News, VA - Groton, CT - San Diego, CA - Houston, TX - Bayonne, NJ

6 Charged With Plot on Army Post in N.J.

By WAYNE PARRY, Associated Press Writer 2 hours ago

FORT DIX, N.J. - Six Islamic militants from Yugoslavia and the Middle East were arrested on charges of plotting to attack the Fort Dix Army post and "kill as many soldiers as possible," authorities said Tuesday. In conversations secretly recorded by an FBI informant over the past year, the men talked about killing in the name of Allah and attacking U.S. warships that might dock in Philadelphia, according an FBI criminal complaint.

"This was a serious plot put together by people who were intent on harming Americans," U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie said Tuesday. "We're very gratified federal law enforcement was able to catch these people before they acted and took innocent life."

One suspect reportedly spoke of using rocket-propelled grenades to kill at least 100 soldiers at a time, according to court documents. "If you want to do anything here, there is Fort Dix and I don't want to exaggerate, and I assure you that you can hit an American base very easily," suspect Mohamad Ibrahim Shnewer said in one conversation secretly recorded by a government informant, according to the criminal complaint.

"It doesn't matter to me whether I get locked up, arrested or get taken away," a suspect identified as Serdar Tatar said in another recorded conversation. "Or I die, it doesn't matter. I'm doing it in the name of Allah."

Another suspect, Eljvir Duka, was recorded saying: "In the end, when it comes to defending your religion, when someone is trying attacks your religion, your way of life, then you go jihad."

The FBI was tipped off in January 2006 when a shopkeeper alerted agents about a "disturbing" video he had been asked to copy onto a DVD, according to court documents. The video showed 10 men in their early 20s "shooting assault weapons at a firing range ... while calling for jihad and shouting in Arabic 'Allah Akbar' (God is great)," the complaint said.

Christie said one of the suspects worked at Super Mario's Pizza in nearby Cookstown and delivered pizzas to the base.

. . . The description of the suspects as "Islamic militants" renewed fears in New Jersey's Muslim community. Hundreds of Muslim men from New Jersey were rounded up and detained by authorities in the months following the 2001 attacks, but none was connected to that plot.

"If these people did something, then they deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law," said Sohail Mohammed, a lawyer who represented many of the detainees. "But when the government says 'Islamic militants,' it sends a message to the public that Islam and militancy are synonymous."

"Don't equate actions with religion," he said.

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"Don't equate actions with religion," - That is a lot easier said than done. I'm just damned sick and tired of people coming over here and starting stuff. I am not saying my country is perfect, as a Black Woman I know it's not perfect. But why can't these people hate us, from over there. If they are so religious why can't they say a prayer and light a candle? Seriously, why not say a prayer for our sinful, capitalist, sexist, racist ways? I do, it every night.

If you are even remotely familiar with our behavior on an international level you know that we rarely act; we react. The president of the United States is a jackass, we all know that. However we would not be in Iraq if we had not been reacting to the 9/11/01 attacks in this country.

Getting off course a bit, the whole Saddam Hossein and Iran thing was GWB just trying to avenge his daddy. It had nothing to do with avenging the deaths of thousands of civilians on 9/11/01.

FYI - Fort Dix Army base is a 20 minute drive from my home. I have a cousin who is a retired Air Force Reserve Master Sergeant and she lives only 10 minutes from both Fort Dix Army Base and McGuire Air Force Base. So yes, I am taking this personally.

 

[B_Christofferb]

Houston, TX is not a form of entry - it is not even on the American-Mexican border.

 

[B_Christofferb]

Another thing, you might want to do some re-search on religion. Christians were actually pretty darn evil way back in the day. You can not apply modern day practices of a certain religion to justify their actions, every religion - as well as culture, has a phase of bigotry.

I am not offended by your post, I just find it intresting how you try to prove your point. You are succesful are proving it, but why not include additional info on the differences between the wrong doings of the Muslim religion and other religions? Compare and Contrast.

 

[B_Think_Kink]

Religion is stupid. *end rant*

 

[Principessa]

Houston, TX is not a form of entry - it is not even on the American-Mexican border.

Christofferb, I wasn't choosing port cities. I randomly chose large cities with decent airports; since most people enter the country via plane not boat.

Perhaps I am incorrect and out of touch, but when was the last time a radical Mexican Muslim tried to blow up a US military base?

Illegal Mexican immigrants are a completely different discussion which I didn't touch on becasuse it is not mentioned in the article.

 

[B_Christofferb]

You see, the key word is "radical". Do a search on Catholics, and you will notice that their crimes were just as grotesque as the radical muslims of today.

 

[Principessa]

Another thing, you might want to do some re-search on religion. Christians were actually pretty darn evil way back in the day. Yes you are correct, The Iquisition, Salem Witch Trials, etc.; but you said it yourself, that was back in the day. You can not apply modern day practices of a certain religion to justify their actions, every religion - as well as culture, has a phase of bigotry.
Uhmm, at what point did you think I was justifying the actions of the radical Muslims in question? That was NOT my intent at all. I thought I was making my anti-jihad, anti radical Muslim stance quite clear.

I am not offended by your post, I just find it intresting how you try to prove your point. You are succesful are proving it, but why not include additional info on the differences between the wrong doings of the Muslim religion and other religions? Compare and Contrast.

Honestly, because right now, I don't care. I am too damned angry.
I said in the first line, "this is a rant." Didn't really have an interest in a compare and contrast (still don't). That would mean it was a discussion and not a monologue. :tongue:

Not for nothing dude, but you are in Houston, TX. No terrorist has an interest in bombing Houston, Atlanta, Des Moines, or Fargo.

I was a student at Jersey City State College when the first terrorist attack on the World Trade Center was made in the early 90's. Our entire campus in fact all of New Jersey north of the Raritan River was under lockdown. So having lived through not one, but two terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. I am just really sick of this shit.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Islam is the youngest of the "big three" sons-of-abraham religions. Of course, it's going through its growing pains.

Part of the problem is that Islam has more of an inroads to the "religion-before-life" line of thinking... and the freako-fringes take advantage of that. If some demented christian misinterprets the holy book and starts preaching that the bible requires that a man beat his wife, he will have a couple of followers and lots of detractors. If some demented muslim (bin Laden) misinterprets the holy book and starts preaching that non-muslims need to be killed, he will have a several followers and a few detractors.

In the Quran, murder is actually forbidden - as it is in the Torah and the Holy Bible. It gets the bad press, though, when a freak perverts it and uses it to justify evil actions.

I do not equate actions with religion - the only times you hear about religious horrors is when someone abuses that particular religion.

 

[JustAsking]

There are now about 65,000 citizens dead as a direct result of US invasion of Iraq. The country has been bombed into shambles. What would you guess would be the predominant religious affiliation of the US forces that brought this on?

 

[bobabooey69]

Puts on "proud to be an atheist" shirt.

 

[HazelGod]

Muslims by no means have this market cornered, not even in the modern age. While you're looking into contemporary human atrocities committed in the name of religion, check out Sinn Féin and the IRA.

Nothing in this world quite reaches the same level of stupidity as the majority of Western religions. Throughout history, more blood has been spilled under the banner of mythology than any other ten causes combined. I don't use the term flippantly, either...it is nothing more than mythology. Why the otherwise rational, civilized population of modern man not only tolerates, but actually continues to perpetuate this rampant idiocy is simply beyond my ken.

Well, not really...but it's frustrating to realize that society basically consists of a few intelligent individuals surrounded by vast oceans of stupidity.

 

[B_big dirigible]

The president of the United States is a jackass, we all know that. However we would not be in Iraq if we had not been reacting to the 9/11/01 attacks in this country.

You might perhaps prioritize your hates. Some things are more hateful than others.

The jackass is the only person in a position of authority on the entire planet who seems willing to address the problem of the current Islamic death-cult in anything like the terms it demands. That by itself makes him something of a modern Churchill - and to point that out isn't so much an assertion that the jackass is anything great, as an observation that too many of the rest of us effete Westerners are moral pygmies. (Don't think so? Look at the excuses and rationalizations in this thread.)

Pop-psychology speculations as to why the jackass might be doing the right thing are maybe interesting to some, tendentious to others, but in any case not very relevant. But is it the right thing? There are excellent arguments to be made that it is, but you won't read them here on LPSG.

 

[HazelGod]

The jackass is the only person in a position of authority on the entire planet who seems willing to address the problem of the current Islamic death-cult in anything like the terms it demands.

You must be joking...there's no way you typed that with a straight face.

You can't seriously believe that the "terms it demands" includes using divisive labeling in the basest of terms ("axis of evil" anyone?) whilst using the same despicable tactics under the banner of a different religion. Nor can you believe that it includes the unmitigated application of violence, which history has demonstrated time and again only breeds further violence. Let's not forget that this jackass has embarked upon, pursued, and stayed this idiotic course of action despite broad-based disapproval from a majority of both legislators and citizens alike. Government of and for the people, remember? Except when those people don't agree with jackass George, apparently.

I won't even go into the duplicitous machinations that precipitated our presence in Iraq...

Sorry, but the notion that someone gets kudos for just doing something is just stupid. If you don't understand the why of this, I've got some gasoline futures I can short you...

 

[B_Christofferb]

Honestly, because right now, I don't care. I am too damned angry.
I said in the first line, "this is a rant." Didn't really have an interest in a compare and contrast (still don't). That would mean it was a discussion and not a monologue. :tongue:

Not for nothing dude, but you are in Houston, TX. No terrorist has an interest in bombing Houston, Atlanta, Des Moines, or Fargo.

I was a student at Jersey City State College when the first terrorist attack on the World Trade Center was made in the early 90's. Our entire campus in fact all of New Jersey north of the Raritan River was under lockdown. So having lived through not one, but two terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. I am just really sick of this shit.

It does not matter if it was back in the day - it still happened. Just because you and the rest of the world is dealing with people who misinterpret their Holy book, does not make it more evil. It does not matter where you live - the attacks on the World Trade Center did impact me. Muslims did not attack the World Trade Center, they were not Muslims - they were not practicing the true Muslim religion.

I do have sympathy for you having to go through the outcome of the attacks, but realize this - do not allow yourself to put in a position of hatred and anger; you are only allowing these radicals to win.

 

[losangelestim]

that's right, don't confuse actions with religions! hell, most religious action is confusing enough.

finding the scape-goat is the easy part.

btw: i blame protestants for everything, then women, then whomever last left the room. it doesn't make me right.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

I refuse to believe Islam and its followers are fundamentally evil, or, at least, any more so than any other group. I do fear that many, many Muslims have lived for generations locked in a cycle of tribal warfare, hate, vengeance, oppression under political and religious tyrants, poverty, marginalization, rage and despair that some of them will inevitably turn to violence. Violence against themselves and against convenient outsiders.

 

[dreamer20]

You might perhaps prioritize your hates. Some things are more hateful than others.

The jackass is the only person in a position of authority on the entire planet who seems willing to address the problem of the current Islamic death-cult in anything like the terms it demands. That by itself makes him something of a modern Churchill ...

Sadly he is no Churchill and Claire Talon addressed G.W.Bush's so called "war on terror" here:

Lately I've come to a very good conclusion, I guess. It was while I was watching TV, and saw the coverage of the umpteenth declaration of the good ol' "War on Terrorism" speeches of Bush. Here's what I thought.

I saw that all arrests and successful investigations of latest acts of terrorism came from countries where these investigations were handled by police forces, while military is never, or hardly involved. On the other hand, we (the US) have employed a lot of military forces and come up with a lot of nothing.

This made me think that the term "war on terrorism" is not a matching metaphor. While war implies that you have a concrete opponent, a clear objective, and clear conditions that make you a winner or vanquished, the struggle against terrorism isn't so easy. Therefore, anyone who expects to win this "war" is misled, moreover, this so-called war must be considered as a permanent struggle against an abstract opponent, which will never be won. A "victory" in this case will mean that terrorism is only subdued for some time, forced to hide and remain inactive because of a lack of possible targets, and the increased danger of the terrorists' plans being uncovered through agents infiltrating into the terrorist networks. History proves this, as terrorist organizations which have been infiltrated by the police and intelligence agencies usually grind to a halt, and are very limited in their operations.

 

[SpeedoGuy]

That by itself makes him something of a modern Churchill - and to point that out isn't so much an assertion that the jackass is anything great, as an observation that too many of the rest of us effete Westerners are moral pygmies. (Don't think so? Look at the excuses and rationalizations in this thread.)

I imagine GWB loves being portrayed as the re-incarnation of Winston Churchill by his dwindling number of supporters. The steadfast bulwark holding fast during dark times and all that. However, I think Czar Nicholas II makes a better historical analogy for GWB: A bumbling, incompetent aristocrat surrounded by nefarious sycophantic advisors. Nicholas, like Bush, watched events spin out of control around him and believed his peasants loved him right up until the end.

 

[madame_zora]

Muslims by no means have this market cornered, not even in the modern age. While you're looking into contemporary human atrocities committed in the name of religion, check out Sinn Féin and the IRA.

Nothing in this world quite reaches the same level of stupidity as the majority of Western religions. Throughout history, more blood has been spilled under the banner of mythology than any other ten causes combined. I don't use the term flippantly, either...it is nothing more than mythology. Why the otherwise rational, civilized population of modern man not only tolerates, but actually continues to perpetuate this rampant idiocy is simply beyond my ken.

Well, not really...but it's frustrating to realize that society basically consists of a few intelligent individuals surrounded by vast oceans of stupidity.

What's even more frightening to me is that it seems so subjective as to who is which. Several people can see the same things happening, and come to completely different conclusions about it. NO ONE who is not from the US of A sees bush as anything other than a complete moron. Big Dirge does- draw your own conclusions. I almost cried when I read that post, I was trying like hell to believe that "conservative" didn't mean bush supporter, but now I know. It means science denier, it means reducing taxes to the near-extinction of social programs (who gives a fuck about the poor and mentally ill anyway?) and it means turning a blind eye to corporate theft of the people, OR getting your own hands dirty yourself.

I'm finding it less and less possible not to hate conservatives, for what they really are.

To the topic posted, exactly how many American Christians have killed exactly how many Muslims? I'm sure that nomatter whose stats you read, WE are the big murderers here, not the Muslims. Jesus told his apostles to lay down their arms- I guess that part wasn't so much fun to read. I'm sick of STUPID assholes who can't READ using their religious misinterpretations to kill people they don't know for reasons they don't understand, so that the people in power here and keep the wheels of the war machine greased long enough to Make.Money.Fast.

To anyone too young to remember, war is good for the "economy" if you post the artificial stats that include the military among the employed. It's also great for investors in low-tech industries (like Haliburton and Carlyle)
Who will undoubtably be the only players big enough to win the contracts for guns, tanks, steel, coal to run outdated factories and all the things that serve in no way to advance our civilisation as a whole- just kill people. Big joke when the "war" is over, but that will be the next president's problem, hopefully a democrat, so you can laugh at them for losing all the fake ground of an artificially "strong" economy. I know all politicians and all PEOPLE lie, but the degrees to which this administration has just done it so blatantly is shocking and insulting.

To anyone dumb enough to believe that ANYONE in our government gives a SHIT about either the life or death of your sons and daughter, sisters and brothers, or your dear friends- wake up! This irrational ideology is only what's being presented to us, the reality is that we're all just batteries feeding the war machine, we're only here to generate profits for a few greedy fucks who are the REAL people who think life is meaningless. Americans. We get so mad about Islamics saying that, but OUR OWN leaders act on this very principle. I guess it's better because they're smart enough to lie about it.

 

[Gillette]

WARNING:This is a patriotic, ethnocentric rant; it will most likely offend many of you.​

"Don't equate actions with religion" Sohail Mohammed, a lawyer - That's darn hard to do when you come into my backyard and try to blow it up. I don't see Unitarians, Lutherans, or Pentecostals doing this stuff. It is always radical fundamentalist Muslims.

Of course you don't. They and other Americans are blowing shit up in someone elses backyard and if it's not your yard why should you care?
America has been treating less technologically developed countries' backyards like their own personal playgrounds for years. The first time the U.S. was in Afghanistan it was only there so the Ruskies couldn't have it for themselves. Too bad they left so many of their toys behind.

Also, you're conveniently forgetting the orange and the green. Basically two Christian sects that have been at each others throats since before America was a recognized country and have been in violent conflict for decades most recently erupting in 2001.

Was Timothy McVeigh a radical fudamentalist muslim?
Wake the fuck up! "Always", my ass!


If you are even remotely familiar with our behavior on an international level you know that we rarely act; we react. The president of the United States is a jackass, we all know that. However we would not be in Iraq if we had not been reacting to the 9/11/01 attacks in this country.

Getting off course a bit, the whole Saddam Hossein and Iran thing was GWB just trying to avenge his daddy. It had nothing to do with avenging the deaths of thousands of civilians on 9/11/01.

I've highlighted in red why you never should have bothered posting. You admit that 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq when in your previous statement you call America's actions there a justified reaction.

Neither your post nor America's presence in Iraq is logical. Unless you want to compare America's "reaction" to a child who's just been bullied turning on the next smaller kid and beating him just because he can.

Just a few suggestions before you make you're next rant.
1. Turn off your predigested news source and look at the big picture, not just the part that stroked your trigger today.
2. Reminding everyone, once again, of your minority status will not excuse your bigoted bullshit.
3. Try not to contradict your own points in a single post. If your arguments clash, hit delete and ponder why.

And finally, because you've just tripped my trigger,

4. Stop fucking with the fonts just to get attention! You're opinion isn't more important or valid because you supersized it.