double standard racism

[2322]

Yet another clusterfuck. I'm deeply disappointed by just about everyone involved and most disturbed that political correctness has triumphed over substantive argument backed by reason. LPSG has lost a great deal of what has made it dynamic and truly intellectually stimulating and, instead, descended to mob mentality. Madame Recamier would have kicked this place out to the curb.

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. -John Stuart Mill[/FONT]
​

 

[deleted15807]

We are ALL biased and we ALL stereotype. Its human nature and its how we survive... There can not be a situation where people do not categorizes and evaluate experience.

In our ancestral evolution it's how we determined hostile tribes and threats.We could look at someone and tell they were not of 'us' and presented a potential threat. Unfortunately it has carried over into modern times were how someone 'looks' does not necessarily indicate a threat. And it takes thought and reason to understand just because someone doesn't look like us that they are not a threat.

FYI. All anyone has to do is watch the original Star Trek to understand it all.

It is obvious to the most simpleminded that Lokai is of an inferior breed."
"The obvious visual evidence, Commissioner, is that he is of the same breed as yourself."
"Are you blind, Commander Spock? Well, look at me. Look at me!"
"You're black on one side and white on the other."
"I am black on the right side."
"I fail to see the significant difference."
"Lokai is white on the right side. All of his people are white on the right side." - Bele,Spock, and Kirk

 

[SilverTrain]

Yet another clusterfuck. I'm deeply disappointed by just about everyone involved and most disturbed that political correctness has triumphed over substantive argument backed by reason. LPSG has lost a great deal of what has made it dynamic and truly intellectually stimulating and, instead, descended to mob mentality. Madame Recamier would have kicked this place out to the curb.

​

[FONT=georgia, bookman old style, palatino linotype, book antiqua, palatino, trebuchet ms, helvetica, garamond, sans-serif, arial, verdana, avante garde, century gothic, comic sans ms, times, times new roman, serif]The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. -John Stuart Mill[/FONT]
​

Love the quote. As a tireless defender of the right to dissent (expended a LOT of energy on that from 2001-2004), I agree with the quoted sentiment entirely.

I'd posit that last night was not about squashing dissenting opinion, but rather about addressing an ugly and indefensible attitude.

 

[Supersized]

NJQT is suspicious not racist. Your quote of her does not substantiate your claim. Calling somone racist is not racist. Get it?

 

[Principessa]

Racism .....:frown1: I have only one thing to say on the subject MY NAME IS ....... AND I AM A RACIST if anyone has any comment please read this before doing so John 8:7

Honey, you know I love you, but you don't have a dog in this fight. Racism in America is a centuries old problem. We didn't invent it; but sadly, we seem to have perfected it. :frown1:

You choose your words lightly Jason. Goddess, worshiped, come on now man.

Wouldn't comments like smart thoughtful considerate be more meaningfull then something someone couldn't possibly live up to.

Thank you Deno, it's been a while since anyone on here noticed that I am often smart, thoughtful, and considerate. :smile:

You know exactly what he meant and your being literal doesn't prove whatever point you were trying to make, assuming you had a point and weren't just talkin' out the side of your neck.

All hail Queen NJ! Bow before the throne!

Oh NO! I am not a Queen of this site or any other! Nor do I want to be. I am neither infallible nor omnipotent. Believe me when I tell you the mods probably laugh at or ignore my antics and statements as much as the rest of y'all.

dont really want to get into it too much, but to kinda sum it up I

think that sometimes white people who express and opinion or slight bias (to use the poster above me's terms) are accused of being racist, when they arent. but other ethnicities are free to express such opinions without comment.

Really? I have seen that happen in the workplace but not so much on this site. The problem is that there is a very fine line between being pro-white or ethnocentric and being anti everyone else.

I guess the screwball factor went up while I was away. Well, not that I could have helped. B

ette has lost any respect I could have had for her. Jason Dawg is still a little shrill. Marley often over reacts.

A lot of us have attitudes, sometimes the anger boils out in the wrong way. I am not really sure what caused all this nonsense, but I'm sure NJQT isn't responsible. She flexes many arenas, and sometimes people don't know what make of her. She isn't a queen, let alone a BAP.

It's weird how I became the center of a fight I didn't start. You are half right, I am not a queen but my dad has called me a BAP since I was in ruffled ankle socks. Don't think of that horrible movie with Halle Berry, they got it all wrong. A true BAP is just a darker skinned version of a Jewish American Princess.

Hi ZOS - apologies for being thick, but whats a BAP ?

BAP=Black American Princess

I'd posit that last night was not about squashing dissenting opinion, but rather about addressing an ugly and indefensible attitude.

That was my take on it as well, though I may be wrong. :redface: That does happen occassionally. :tongue:

 

[marleyisalegend]

I'd posit that last night was not about squashing dissenting opinion, but rather about addressing an ugly and indefensible attitude.

AMEN. There's absolutely NOTHING to be gained by allowing such speech to continue, because of the attitude behind what's being said. You can give it all the cutesy explanations you want, but the proof is in the pudding. Two members tried reasoning and got nowhere because 2 other people were dead-set in their blatantly anti-black and anti-gay sentiments.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

In our ancestral evolution it's how we determined hostile tribes and threats.We could look at someone and tell they were not of 'us' and presented a potential threat. Unfortunately it has carried over into modern times were how someone 'looks' does not necessarily indicate a threat. And it takes thought and reason to understand just because someone doesn't look like us that they are not a threat.

That is a very narrow take on such a pervasively critical mental function.

Rapidly Identifying patterns is essential to every aspect of human mental activity.

Its how we make sense of the torrent of stimuli we are faced with.


Its is not merely for seeing others as potential threat... it is also for identifying friends, for forming cliques, for broadcasting your own affiliations, attitudes and opinions.


There is nothing necessarily racist about generalizing or stereotyping. ( although many racist attitudes ARE forms of stereotyping.)

I can group girls into those I find attractive and those I don't.
I can stereotype call salesmen as untrustworthy liars I have to watch out for....

This is not something I do out of threat only... its mostly something we do so that we can BETTER control events in our favor.

Stereotyping is how I can tell a hippie from a wino, a preppie from a hip hopper.


As much as people decry it... there is not a single soul on earth, nor will there ever be, who does not do it .



If it denigrates other by racial category, its racist.
If it denigrates by gender category , its sexist.

But there is a difference between being discriminating... and discriminating against someone.

I can discriminate between the rich and the poor.
It doesn't mean I feel the rich are better people...

 

[deleted15807]

But there is a difference between being discriminating... and discriminating against someone.

Yes but is the average human brain that can so quickly and efficiently discriminate understand with equal deftness and efficiency when it's doing it to the detriment of another? It takes a trip over to the logic and reasoning side of the brain and that's a long long trip for a lot of people.

 

[deleted15807]

But there is a difference between being discriminating... and discriminating against someone.

Yes but is the average human brain that can so quickly and efficiently discriminate understand with equal deftness and efficiency when it's doing it to the detriment of another? It takes a trip over to the logic and reasoning side of the brain and that's a long long trip for a lot of people. And for some there is no such destination.

 

[Xcuze]

I clearly have an average human brain coz I have no clue what you two are babbling on about.

Damn Ive missed another execution! Id almost grown to enjoy bitchslapping ucunt1234 too. Such an easy target with his clumsy provocations. Bring him back!

 

[2322]

I'd posit that last night was not about squashing dissenting opinion, but rather about addressing an ugly and indefensible attitude.

Attitude consists of opinions expressed in word and action on the part of whoever holds them. I counter that regardless of the label we give it, this situation remains unchanged. The greatest gains in combating bigotry come from open, sometimes bitter, dialog.

AMEN. There's absolutely NOTHING to be gained by allowing such speech to continue, because of the attitude behind what's being said. You can give it all the cutesy explanations you want, but the proof is in the pudding. Two members tried reasoning and got nowhere because 2 other people were dead-set in their blatantly anti-black and anti-gay sentiments.

Pretending something does not exist by censoring it does not make that something cease to exist. For someone with so many opinions, you seem to lack the reason to back them with anything more than the paper tiger of moral outrage. What the banned members now have is the very confirmation of their opinions which banning them sought to address. They can now say that they tried to debate the issue but were forced to stop when they were banned. Who is afraid to defend their position? They or the people who tried to and succeeded in silencing them?

When Nelson Mandela and the ANC took over South African government, one of the first things they did was pass a constitution which enshrined free speech knowing full well that it would give voice to the pro-apartheid factions. Mandela, as other civil rights leaders, recognized that confrontation and debate were the only ways to convince others of the righteousness of their position.

Nothing makes an idea so seductive as the refusal of others to even discuss it.

 

[deleted15807]

They were nothing but trolls completely uninterested in debate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/03/magazine/03trolls-t.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=troll&st=cse&oref=slogin

 

[MovingForward]

Heh... only one comment here.
If you want to look at everything on the surface and not dig for any logical reasoning beyond the statements, then the answer is clear. It is racist.

However, your problem may not only be racism. It's also bigoted.
Why don't we take one of your comments and compare the two:

gay guys just love to dream about converting straight men it seems...
i know i will get "flamed" for this (no pun intended lol) but personally, i cant stand all the gay content on here, theres too much, its large penis support group, i understand that will attract lots of gay men, but theres just too much..soemtimes it seems more like gay men support group, than large penis support group, sorry to anyone that took offense to that somehow like i saiad the other night, us straight guys dont flood the forums with threads about every good looking girl we see online.. its ridiculous, im tired of thread after thread about some gay guy that doesnt even have a big penis! i have nothing against gays, to each his own, but stop ramming your homoerotic material down our throats! i too have seen enough of the threads about gay guys wondering if they can convert striaght guys, wondering what makes you gay, wondering if straight fguys will suck dick,e ct ect ect

You need to get it in your mind that most gay men do not sit around, dreaming about converting straight men. The majority don't need to recruit. There are PLENTY of openly gay men to choose from, so you can take off that sign on the seat of your pants that says "Exit only". Ask yourself, what do you REALLY have that a gay man wants? And please, a dick photo comparing yourself to a V8 doesn't cut it because we can find 10 more gay men doing the same thing. You also need to realize that any man who enjoys looking at someone else's dick is engaging in a homosexual act. You don't have to be in the action of having sex in order to be indulging in one. The extended stare is all it takes.

Trust me. Being worried about NJ's racist attitude is the least of your worries.

HA HA ,

Converting straight guys are my favorite pass time

 

[SilverTrain]

Attitude consists of opinions expressed in word and action on the part of whoever holds them. I counter that regardless of the label we give it, this situation remains unchanged. The greatest gains in combating bigotry come from open, sometimes bitter, dialog.

We could have a long debate about the semantics of this. I can come up with all sorts of definitions too! :tongue: I don't want to argue.

But I stand by my initial statement. While respecting yours.

 

[marleyisalegend]

Pretending something does not exist by censoring it does not make that something cease to exist. For someone with so many opinions, you seem to lack the reason to back them with anything more than the paper tiger of moral outrage. What the banned members now have is the very confirmation of their opinions which banning them sought to address. They can now say that they tried to debate the issue but were forced to stop when they were banned. Who is afraid to defend their position? They or the people who tried to and succeeded in silencing them?

That's the dumbest shit I ever heard. Atleast they whole-heartedly believe this crap. Either you do too, or this is your pathetic attempt to intellectualize and romanticize their obviously prejudice ranting.

It's almost cute, if not so pathetic, the way you're trying to defend them under free speech. Free speech DOES NOT EXIST! If you don't believe so, fly on an airplane and yell that there's a bomb.....I'm waiting.....

The problem is LOTS of people are gluttons for their rights, but ignore the responsibility. Speech comes with the responsibility of....nevermind, the concept is clearly lost on you and the other two.

 

[2322]

That's the dumbest shit I ever heard. Atleast they whole-heartedly believe this crap. Either you do too, or this is your pathetic attempt to intellectualize and romanticize their obviously prejudice ranting.

It's almost cute, if not so pathetic, the way you're trying to defend them under free speech. Free speech DOES NOT EXIST! If you don't believe so, fly on an airplane and yell that there's a bomb.....I'm waiting.....

The problem is LOTS of people are gluttons for their rights, but ignore the responsibility. Speech comes with the responsibility of....nevermind, the concept is clearly lost on you and the other two.

You have a good mind marley. I hope some day you will use it to explore philosophy and the great thinkers of history. A decent education would do wonders for your understanding of the world.

 

[2322]

Love the quote. As a tireless defender of the right to dissent (expended a LOT of energy on that from 2001-2004), I agree with the quoted sentiment entirely.

I'd posit that last night was not about squashing dissenting opinion, but rather about addressing an ugly and indefensible attitude.

That is because everyone else here debated the people and not the idea. The battle was lost the minute that happened.

 

[Viking_UK]

I'm going to have to agree with Jason on this one. Excluding someone from expressing their opinion doesn't mean that it goes away. It just stifles the debate. I don't agree with people who are racist, sexist or whatever ist you come up with next, but it's their right to have an opinion. It's your right to try to change it, but disagreeing with it doesn't give you the right to shut them up. That's the whole point of the free speech laws.

Yes, we have laws now that do restrict free speech under certain circumstances, such as incitement to religious or racist violence among others, but all that really does is drive them underground. There are still racists, homophobes and religious bigots out there and will continue to be. That's life. You have to learn how to deal with it.

There are opinions and beliefs that are widely held to be unacceptable, but some people still hold them. You can legislate against them and ban them from being talked or discussed in schools or in public, but somehow they never go away. They always seem to be passed on, usualy because something has reinforced them. I don't know if you change the opinions of someone who's a bigot, but you can try. Unfortunately, if you lock them out and exclude them from debate, that's not going to happen.

 

[SilverTrain]

No one was prevented from expressing dissent. No one was locked out of a debate.

Everyone just got tired of hearing the same ridiculous character assaults repeated over and over and over and over and over.

Taking out the trash at The Louvre is not a restriction of artistic expression.

 

[marleyisalegend]

Debate? You guys are really giving Uncut a lot of credit. According to you guys, by censoring him we're attempting to stifle some sort of....what, educated conversation? NOTHING OF THE SORT! All he did was call names, his problem was not any opinion because he rarely gave any type of opinion, he just called people cunts and asshats and made fun of them, especially if THEY disagree with HIM.

It's amazing how stuck in the sand some of your heads are, you must have oxygen tubes connected to your butts.

There is a large amount of humor in suggesting that some sort of intelligent, hell, semi-intelligent conversation is being lost, you clearly weren't reading their posts, and have jumped in just to be in the center. Go back to your cave.