Double Standards, female aggression viewed as nothing to react to.

petite

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I've got to say, I've been treated like that by a man in public and to my shock, no one intervened, even though it was in a crowded bar. When I got up and walked away, he followed me into the bathroom and still no one did anything, even though he was causing such a ruckus. People were doing that "don't look at them" thing. So I think a lot of people are just cowards when it comes to a situation like that. They don't want to get involved.

I have never seen a woman attacking a man, but I have twice called the police on neighbors when I've heard fighting that had obviously gotten to the "screaming and breaking stuff" stage and I don't know who was attacking whom, once I called the cops when a woman who was screaming her head off in a way that sounded more "help me" than "having good sex," once I called the police when my next door neighbor's boyfriend literally broke the door down and entered her apartment, and I've intervened in a street fight once between two men even though they both outweighed me by a lot. I'm a tiny woman, if you can't tell from my username.

Based upon my history, I suspect that I would do something in that situation, because I don't believe in being a silent witness to violence.

The boyfriend of my next door neighbor actually confronted me . He was personally offended that I had called the police.
 
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B_Nicodemous

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I wonder if the same thing would have happened if it were filmed in a different city? Just saying that cultural bias (yes even a city's innate culture) could skew this.

I really don't see that applying in the part of Nor Cal I live in. I have seen people get called out no matter WHAT the sex of the abuser.

What I found interesting was the GUY's (take (the cop) that, "oh yeah if it had been a man...." To me, the WAY he said it was like, "If the gut can't defend himself against a woman" mixed with "it's never ok to hit a lady." Like his machismo was mixing oddly with the over-all geographic consensus? IDK. an interesting clip, regardless.

The response EVERYONE should have if they saw this IRL? They should have intervened, be it confronting the abuser themselves or calling for help.

Period.
 

LuciferChild

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womans have more protection in public because there always appear another guy to defend them, but with men nobody appear not even a woman, but if the men had pushed her everybody came to rescue her.....womans still seen as weaker.

not fair! men deserve the same rights.
 
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D_Ivanna_Wanka-Wang

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Maybe this is the defender in me speaking, but I have this philosophy: If a woman is going to be as hostile as a man I'm going to treat her like one. If a women takes a swing at me, and they have in the past, they better be ready to take one back. The same for a guy. I don't discriminate based on sex when it comes to violence. Initiation of violence is wrong, but even the monks learned to defend themselves.

The mentality of people on the topic of women being abusive is the same as pitbulls vs small dogs in biting. Men, like pitbulls, cause more damage due to build, force, size etc., but women, like most small dogs, are more frequent to bite or attack. Now which dog is seen as the problem dog? The pitbull. Why? Not because of frequency, but because of magnitude. The problem is that men are often times too machismo driven to report female abuse and stick to their guns, while if a guy hits a female, they more readily report it because it's more socially normative.

On the topic of defending someone else such as the circumstance we witnessed here... who knows what they'd actually do. We can sit and speculate and say that we'd do one thing or the other but in the moment people look at for #1. Assessing a hostile situation is not an easy thing to do, that's why there are people trained in crisis intervention, but is passiveness the answer? No.

Overall, my take:

1) Aggression and hostility taken against myself, is met with defense and willingness to engage in subduing actions against that person. That hostility is then reported and taken seriously until the issue is resolved legally.

2) Aggression and hostility taken against another person (be it male on male, male on female, female on male, or female on female), intervention is some form is always correct. It may not be the right idea to step in and try to break them up, but calling the police, or approaching them in a group to let them know that there is social concern, works wonders most of the time. You'd be amazed at how often people shut down when others make them feel like they are making a spectacle of them selves.
 
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luka82

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The stats in my country say - Every third woman gets beaten regularly.
Nonetheless, violence is violence and it should be stopped.
 

D_Dick_S_Lapp

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The most amazing part of the video is the presumed guilt. The "he must have deserved it" assumption. I think that may the start of the problem right there. A bit of proof that stereotypes and generalizations do lead to action or in this case inaction.
 

Thirdlegproduction

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I'm not sure what to think, I have never sat still when someone tried to abuse me even when I was greatly outnumbered so I can not identify with the victims here male or female.

Doesn't mean I have to hit back with equal force but to just sit there and take it is an indicator you feel you deserved it somehow.

These were not two honest depictions, in the one scene the female is not physicially strong enough to withstand his abusing and may choose to play possum but the man was able to withstand her abuse and chose not to.

I think if they showed a female bodybuilder beating him up the response would be different.

My response, unless it got dangerous. I'd move along and think he deserves it for just allowing himself to be abused.
 

petite

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The most amazing part of the video is the presumed guilt. The "he must have deserved it" assumption. I think that may the start of the problem right there. A bit of proof that stereotypes and generalizations do lead to action or in this case inaction.

I'm not. When I was in the exact same situation, I think it's one reason why no one did any thing. In the video they made it out like that was a gender difference, but I don't know whether to believe that based upon what happened to me. In my situation, a man was being irrationally jealous towards me and scary aggressive, but because he was making (false) accusations of betrayal, I believe the assumption that I deserved his wrath kept anyone from doing anything.

There's actually a phenomenon called The Just World Fallacy. People are prone to assuming that if something bad happens to someone, that person must have deserved it. It's the reason why so many people feel comfortable being abusive or cruel towards homeless people, the poor, and the infirm. I think I was a victim of it that night.

They were wrong of course. I was innocent of having done anything. I've never been unfaithful to anyone and he was being crazy jealous and paranoid, but it taught me a lesson. First of all, always act. Be the person who does something about it. Secondly, if I want to get away with hitting someone, loudly accuse them of having done something to you so that you fill in the narrative in their heads. You can get away with a lot that way. (don't do that second thing. I was being sarcastic.)
 
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spoon

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I've got to say, I've been treated like that by a man in public and to my shock, no one intervened, even though it was in a crowded bar. When I got up and walked away, he followed me into the bathroom and still no one did anything, even though he was causing such a ruckus. People were doing that "don't look at them" thing. So I think a lot of people are just cowards when it comes to a situation like that. They don't want to get involved.

I have never seen a woman attacking a man, but I have twice called the police on neighbors when I've heard fighting that had obviously gotten to the "screaming and breaking stuff" stage and I don't know who was attacking whom, once I called the cops when a woman who was screaming her head off in a way that sounded more "help me" than "having good sex," once I called the police when my next door neighbor's boyfriend literally broke the door down and entered her apartment, and I've intervened in a street fight once between two men even though they both outweighed me by a lot. I'm a tiny woman, if you can't tell from my username.

Based upon my history, I suspect that I would do something in that situation, because I don't believe in being a silent witness to violence.

The boyfriend of my next door neighbor actually confronted me . He was personally offended that I had called the police.


petite--i am disgusted that no one helped. it made me think of the kitty genovese case from the 60's. she was on her front steps calling for help. people peeked out their window and did nothing.

i couldn't watch the whole video. it was to upsetting.

i have called the police. this past christmas at my neighbors. to much booze mixed with family. it was ugly.
 

petite

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On the topic of defending someone else such as the circumstance we witnessed here... who knows what they'd actually do.

No. I would probably do something. As I told my next door neighbor's boyfriend when he confronted me, there was once in my life when I wish that someone had done something like that for me and no one did anything, and I will never forget that. I will always be the person who does something. It's not personal, it's what I feel is right.

Those two guys fighting, I didn't assess a hostile situation, I just stepped in. I was shocked by what I saw and I stepped up to a guy to was at least a head taller than me who was kicking the other one on the ground and I said, "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING? STOP THAT! STOP THAT RIGHT NOW." I sounded like their mother. They stopped. No one else watching said anything. I was still shocked by my boldness an hour later. I'm not typically a physically tough person, not in the "street fighter" kind of way. I honestly didn't think it through, I just acted. I credit having a tough mom. :tongue:
 
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petite

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petite--i am disgusted that no one helped. it made me think of the kitty genovese case from the 60's. she was on her front steps calling for help. people peeked out their window and did nothing.

i couldn't watch the whole video. it was to upsetting.

i have called the police. this past christmas at my neighbors. to much booze mixed with family. it was ugly.

I realize now that I fully had the expectation that some hero would step up and save me, the result of too many fictional stories and Hollywood movies in my head.

Reality is harsh.

I remember reading about Kitty Genovese. There have been countless examples since then, the same story repeating itself. There was a recent trial of a woman who attacked another woman and struck her over 200 times over 20 minutes. A lot of people heard her crying and screaming, but they did nothing. They testified in court, but they could have saved her life.
 
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NotSoDumb_Blonde

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I couldn't watch the entire video either. It was horrible. I don't care if you are a girl or a guy, abusing someone like that is sick. She should have been locked up. Period.

And to the analogy of dogs-- I don't think women hit more than men, but I can't be hundred percent solid on that.Your analogy worked up to the point of you saying smaller dogs (women) attack with more frequency. Not in my life they don't. But that's just my fish pond. Don't want near yours if they do!
 

petite

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My analogy (if you watched the entire video) has it's basis in stats.

Oh, I know that other people wouldn't. It's the reason why I would. If you read my post, I have very personal reasons why I would not react the same way as other people.
 

Thirdlegproduction

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I realize now that I fully had the expectation that some hero would step up and save me, the result of too many fictional stories and Hollywood movies in my head.

Reality is harsh.

Had a similar experience when I was 13, I looked like I was 18 though but a group of young drunk men randomly decided to beat me up at the carnival fair.

Only thing that saved me was that I was able to fend for myself long enough to hurt them back. The wounds and concussions didn't hurt what really hurt me was the fact I was surrounded by dozens of familys parents children the entire time all watching and nobody intervened.

Something broke in me that night but it wasn't because of the thugs.

Even having experienced that I still believe one should take the first step for themselves and try and fight off abuse and when you do I will be there.
But do nothing and allow the abuser to continue, I'm not inclined to help.
 

petite

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If you watch a lot of the "what would you do" program on ABC you'll find that the general answer, regardless of what people claim, is generally... nothing. And that's a damn shame

Yes, it's true. I think we're talking about the same thing.

I honestly believe when I can hear a arguing at the house halfway up the block from me and glass breaking and all the evidence of a fight that has gotten physical and out of hand, that I'm the only one who has picked up the phone to call the police. I'm certain of it. I don't disbelieve what you said about people in general because it's my knowledge that no one else is going to act combined with really bad personal experiences that makes me the one who would do something.

I know that most people won't do anything, but I think the solution to that is not to say to yourself, "I don't know what I would do..." because then you'll be the person standing passively still trying to decide what to do when the situation comes up. If you decide beforehand with conviction, "I will be the person who does something" and then you think about things you would do, I think you'll more likely break from the crowd and actually be in that tiny percentage of people who would make better choices.

I'm unsure if those programs help make real changes. On the one hand, it makes a person consider what the right thing to do would be, but on the other hand, it's almost like it's already relieved your guilt for not acting because when they show you that 165 people passed by and didn't do anything, a lot of people are going to think, "See? I'm no worse than anyone else." :frown1:
 
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D_Terry_Tugnuts

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My ex was physically violent with me fairly often during arguments, such as punching me on the side of the head while I was driving, knocking my spectacles off. I used to grasp her wrists when I could until she'd calmed down. A violent temper which just exploded, and a festering resentment for days. I'm amazed our marriage lasted so long!

Yes, women can be every bit as bad as men.
 

rbkwp

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Yes, women can be every bit as bad as men.

Without a doubt, equally as bad, one just has to experience the nasty side of a female/s, often accompanied with a deviousness that males often dont have the capabilities to conjure up ...and you soon learn to take anyone who advocates them as having a harder time than the male in life, with a grain of salt.
and that's not a bitterness with women, gone well past that stage..