Drilling is wasted effort

D_Rod Staffinbone

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Hey, everyone's forgotten about the Exxon Valdez spill anyways right? We'll just get rid of some more environmental protections along the way and build an army of nuclear reactors to boot. That'll keep gas prices down. That's all we care about after all isn't it? To hell with our health and well being. To hell with the environment. Well just entrust oil companies with that little detail. Let's just throw that out of the equation here. Drill Drill Drill NOW! or else. Time is running out! WOLF! WOLF! FIRE! FIRE!

i'm against drilling in ANWR, and was just pointing out that it (the oil there) probably wouldn't
benefit the u.s. energy situation (prices, energy "independence") citizen support is
just needed to allow congress to change the law to allow drilling there, in time many ugly truths will
become apparent, at least to those still awake enough to pay attention.

offroad
 
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durks

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WASTED EFFORT!!!
You're right Phil, $ spent on the incumbents is $ deferred for alternatives. WAKE UP PPL!!!! Oil isn't endless, nor is the environments ability to absorb its combustion!

The cost of producing solar panels has halved every three years on average. The cost of wind and geothermal is cost competetive with coal. Commercial wave operations are about to be installed in Portugal.
Graphite and cadmium ion batteries are on the vrge of 50,000+ hours of operation. Not to mention high-temperature Fuel cells!!

All of this in the course of a decade while the fossil fuel industry has had over a century and trillions of dollars of public money to get to the current predicament it' in now.

Wrong direction if you think dredging for shale oil or ar sands is the way to go, while the est of the world is waking up. What happend to the America of innovators? Ah fuk it too hard - bring it up boys :(
 

transformer_99

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This is irresponsible.

If we drill for oil then oil companies will be investing in drilling... not innovation.

THere is only so much money and so much time.

Every minute we spend on drilling, every dollar we spend on it is time and money that could have been put better purpose.

I am not kidding, folks- do the research... do the math... No amount of drilling will affect gas prices so much as a penny.

IF we got off oil in 10 years time ( for power generation) then the oil we do have might last till we get of oil for cars, too.


The time is now.

I've had a lifetime of responsibility and being as "environmentally green" as society has allowed me to have or even will allow me to be. I'm fed up with it already. Until recently, every car I've ever owned has been a four cylinder gas mizer. And where has this gotten me or any of us for that matter ? Gasoline is still $ 4/gallon. I've never owned a boat or an rv, so I can't say that I've found a way to waste as much fossil fuel as possible and getting as little in return for it.

The alternatives, those are going to cost us just the same. A hybrid Civic is $ 22K, the new Chevy Volt is projected to run $ 40K or so. A Tesla is around $ 100K. So what difference does it make how responsible any of us are any more ?

If I've had one regret over my lifetime thus far, it's been that I haven't been more self-indulgent and trust me, from what I see going on with these damn bail outs, there are far too many that have simply taken what sacrifices many of us have made and lived high on the hog from them. I'm just not buying "going without and sacrificing" as a choice any more. I bought into it for Clinton or as close to it as I could say I did, but I refuse and won't do it for Obama nor McCain on "change", but we'll have one or the other's "change" crammed down our throats come next January.

I see your point and even respect it. But really, ever look at those that are asking you to give more of yourself for the cause ? They're the last one's that have been foregoing and doing without. "Do as I say, not as I do" is their credo. And we can argue them all day long, Republican or Democrat, it doesn't matter which. I just don't believe in them anymore (and that's if I ever did at any point in time). And if it's true that Nader lives on about $ 25K/year, he's the only one of the bunch worth believing in because he's about the closest thing to the way most of each of us lives day to day anyway. We're all good little consumer's, we take our meager earnings and kick it back into an economy on payscales that don't go as far as it used to.

Talk about a waste of time and money ? I don't want to hear about what these politicians are going to do for us because many of us don't make $ 100K/year, I want to know what they're going to do to distribute wealth and income more equitably so we can do it on our own without counting on them to give us the next tax cut or rebate check. I really don't think those in Washington DC are qualified to tell any of us what we can do with or without. Sorry for the rant, but I wouldn't mind putting Bush or any of them for that matter on the same plan they've put the rest of us on. Then again, we know what their response would be, they'd simply become themselves all over again and take advantage of others at every turn. All we need to do is look at Daddy Bush and "W", his dad had the S&L bailout among other things, "W" has his bailouts forthcoming. History repeats itself and as many have become wealthy along the way from it, it'll perpetuate, over and over again.
 

earllogjam

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i'm against drilling in ANWR, and was just pointing out that it (the oil there) probably wouldn't
benefit the u.s. energy situation (prices, energy "independence") citizen support is
just needed to allow congress to change the law to allow drilling there, in time many ugly truths will
become apparent, at least to those still awake enough to pay attention.

offroad

I was just being facetious, Offroad. Sorry if my sarcasm was a bit biting.
 

Phil Ayesho

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Vote for Obama- because here's the facts.
By 2012
Obamas tax plan- put into effect, will cause the income of the top 0.1% of of U.S. earners to FALL by 5%.

McCain's tax plan, put into effect, will cause the income of the top o.1% of U.S. earners to RISE by 12%

If you want a more equitable share in the market- vote democratic.
If you want to continue with market policies that REFUSE to police the monetary practices of the wealthiest 0.1%- vote republican.


I am not asking you to 'give" to the cause.

The republicans are... If the ultra conservatives stop the bailout- YOU will pay with a general collapse of the entire economy... MORE poverty...
( while the ruch simply pull out of the economy and jet to their villas in Monaco)

If we GET the bailout- and republicans are in office ... you will pay for the bailout... AND they will cut the taxes to the rich even further.. and they will BORROW more money to conduct the war...
They only spending they will cut will be Medicare and social security- INCREASING the burden of the paying for elderly on the middle class and poor.
Again- net result- more fiscal irresponsiblity and MORE of it charged to the middle and low income sectors of the economy.


Obama is at least saying he will cut spending WITHOUT additional borrowing to fund the war.


You are gonna pay for this, one way or another... the only choice you have is which way you want to pay for it... with nations wide collapse? With more of the same form the same fucks who got us here? OR with someone at the helm who can work with a democratic congress-- and who will place the needs of the middle class and poor on a PAR with the needs of the wealthy?



And finally- if a Republican sits in the white house next year- with a democratic congress
We will sit in gridlock.
The democrats stopping McCain- McCain vetoing the democrats...

The result?
NOTHING will get done NOTHING will change.


THink it thru...

We have ONE option to move forward.

It can not be with the ones who made the mess.

You don't hire the guy who burgled your house to change your locks.
 

Phil Ayesho

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PS- I just got a hard answer to the Oil Company's estimate of the effect of drilling in ANWR..

If we fully exploit all drillable sources in ANWR- it will take 8 to 12 years- and it will lower gas prices by no more than 4 CENTS per gallon.

Wow- the republican plan will save me 60 cents per fill up! A DECADE from Now!

Hey! That's ALMOST $62 per YEAR!

Whooray we're saved!

( sound of troglodytes chanting) "DRILL!, DRILL!, DRILL!, DRILL!, DRILL!, ...."


Useless morons.


btw- proper tire inflation- according to Shell Oil- would save me over $200 per year in gas.


GAWD republicans are stupid...

Instead of politicizing science- maybe they should actually study some.
 
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deleted15807

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there ar plenty of refinery and gas stations that only sell US gas. look em up. ask your dad about the correlation between supply and demand. then explain it to phil please.

No YOU look them up and present your findings. Why the fuck should anyone research YOUR claim? You said it. You prove it. That's how it works in the world.
 

curious n str8

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D_Davy_Downspout

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You are asking a lot. Nobody can explain anything to Phil. Big E - keep the posts coming - supply and demand is a curse word on this board, but I appreciate the hell out of it bro.


Please explain how opening offshore areas to drilling will affect supply and demand. You seem to be familiar with the concept I'd love to hear your thoughts.
 

curious n str8

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Question is too vague, be more specific. We(the world) can technically stop drilling for oil. And technically stop using it. Doing it right this second may not be a great idea.
We the USA because of our economy... can we afford stop drilling for oil right now? And how soon can we fully depend on alternative energy? My answer is no because of environmentalist issues towards all energy sources that being not in my backyard and pollution issues. But if we got ride of those 2 issues 10-15 years to fully depend on alternative energy.
 

D_Davy_Downspout

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We the USA because of our economy... can we afford stop drilling for oil right now? And how soon can we fully depend on alternative energy? My answer is no because of environmentalist issues towards all energy sources that being not in my backyard and pollution issues. But if we got ride of those 2 issues 10-15 years to fully depend on alternative energy.

Not sure how the question is relevant, nobody in this thread is advocating us not drilling for oil. You do realize that even if we give the OK to drill in those areas, the companies may not, right?
 

curious n str8

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Not sure how the question is relevant, nobody in this thread is advocating us not drilling for oil. You do realize that even if we give the OK to drill in those areas, the companies may not, right?
Are you kidding me? That's been all this thread been about. OK they being the oil companies, don't wanna drill ANWAR,they Don't want to drill within 50 miles of the our coast lines any ever other place where the oil is at. Everyone has to admit I'm right about the environmentalists not wanting nuclear plants,wind mill farms or solar fields in their back yards either. Plus I haven't gotten a response on thisNine Critical Questions to Ask About Alternative Energy or this Will the Rate-of-Conversion Problem Derail Alternative Energy? BTW I am not against Alternative energy or responsible drilling. Oh and lets not forget about building more refinery's or at least expanding them.
 

Phil Ayesho

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We the USA because of our economy... can we afford stop drilling for oil right now? And how soon can we fully depend on alternative energy? My answer is no because of environmentalist issues towards all energy sources that being not in my backyard and pollution issues. But if we got ride of those 2 issues 10-15 years to fully depend on alternative energy.
Yes, we can- as pointed out- the BEST estimate is that if we start drilling in ANWR tomorrow, 10 years from now the price of oil will be 4 CENTS lower.


All tolled, Oil industry experts wil admit that ALL available offshore drilling Plus ANWR will not affect prices by more than 14 CENTS per gallon.

TOTAL- and that savings is 8 years out.

You're rate of conversion question is meaningless. Every single clean energy solution is technological- as opposed to resource availability oriented.

ALL the oil that can be accessed cheaply HAS been drilled. ALL future oil extraction will be MORE costly than the cheaply got oil... as we exploit close offshore- the deep offshore costs more, as we move to oil shales it costs still more.
It becomes harder and harder, more and more expensive- because you have to do more, in more extreme circumstance to get the same amount of oil...

There is no way to alter this basic fact.
ADD to that the fact that with production peaking... and heading rapidly for a long inexorable decline we have demand growing exponentially. The existing oil fields are drying up faster than the harder to get at new oil sources can be developed.
China and India will be using drastically more oil every year for the next 20 years.

All of this means that anyone thinking that oil prices can be kept from going up are Delusional.



Contrast that to the fact that clean sources are technology based- ( not resource availability based)
LIKE ALLL technologies they benefit enormously from economies of SCALE.
As wind turbines are made in larger quantity their cost DECREASES in relation to kilowatt hours produced.

Same with photovoltaics- and with growing markets for these devices Competition will spur new innovation, new research and, therefore, a rapid improvement in their cost/kilowatt ratio.

Just like computers and cell phones.... clean energy sources will get better faster, the faster we move into this technology.



Secondly-
drilling for more oil only SLOWS the private sector's efforts to move away from reliance on Oil.

Drilling makes global warming get WORSE rather than better... and the longer we remain reliant on oil, the longer we are held hostage by the political and religious agendas of the middle east.

If we had spent the money we have spent killing Iraqis on getting OFF of oil... we could have rendered the Muslim Oil states irrelevant on the world stage.

The new infrastructure for this new energy system would EMPLOY Americans, here at home... doing a hell of a lot more for the economy than lowering taxes on corporations that offshore jobs to asia.

And if we can become the world leader in clean energy technologies... global warming issues will FORCE other nations to beat a path to our door to buy those technologies- creating the kind of NEW business and industry that more oil simply will not.
And significantly helping the imbalance of trade.


SO there you have it...

Drilling for oil will NOT result in a larger supply- because demand is growing larger than supply CAN be brought online.


Going green as hard and as fast as we can will NOT cost more with oil at $100 per barrel and over...
And will rapidly begin to coast drastically less.


Clean energy sources will ALSO act as major solutions to everything from global warming and unemployment, to middle east tensions and terrorism.


Reasoning people with any understanding of the science and the threat all agree that this is the best possible option.







That being said- I do have to agree that the area in which Liberals are as unreasoning as republicans... and just as likely to lie about as republicans are to lie about money and free markets...

is the areas of nuclear power.... environmental impact studies and the like.


If conservative REALY want to be part of the solution rather than the problem they should focus on tempering liberal excesses over such things as the threat of nuclear power.

( one of the least harmful energy sources in the world- causing the fewest deaths, and the least amount of pollution... here's a great fact- 60 years worth of nuclear waste has been stored ON SITE at the reactors. that's how trifling is the amount of nuclear waste...
And ALL radioactve materials were dug up out of the ground... the idea that we can not safely DILUTE their concentration and put it back where it came from is ridiculous.)


Conservative should switch from pushing free market nonsense to pushing the REAL need for streamlined approval of new, clean energy sources and infrastructure.
If you gotta fight liberals- fight them in the areas in which they are as entirely over the top, and destructive to national needs as republicans are about free markets.
 

javyn

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Logistically speaking, alternative energy is a long ways away and anyone with a working brain realizes that. You can't just wave a magic wand and not be dependent on oil anymore. The only alternative we can have immediately is the amount of gaseous spew constantly coming form marleyisalegend's mouth.