Drug war

Discussion in 'Politics' started by englad, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. englad

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    Hi,
    just intrigued to see what people's opinions on this issue are. Do you think there should be a blanket legalisation of all illegal substances? Or decriminalisation?

    Or do you feel that certain drugs should be decriminalised or legalised?
    Or do you think that the currently illegal drugs should remain that way?

    Do you think the Drug war is working?

    i will put my own opinions down and the UK's situation in a few minutes
     
  2. englad

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    Basically in Britain recently the government sacked the head of appointed independent advisory board on drugs, mostly due to him stating that horse riding is 35 times more dangerous than ecstasy and that cannabis should not be reclassified to class B, or it should be decriminalised (here the classification system works as follows Class A has most severe penalties for possession or supply, so that includes cocaine, heroin, crystal meth and controversially ecstasy, with Class C has the most lenient penalties for possession or supply, but controversially includes ketamine).
    After an extensive study he was sacked by the government, he also published a list of 20 of the most commonly used drugs, both legal and illegal, and graded in terms of harm (on a few variables such as addictivity, harm to the individual and harm to the society etc.), which placed tobacco at number 9 (i.e. 9th most dangerous drug out of 20), alcohol at number 5, ecstasy at number 18 and cannabis at number 11.
     
  3. drumstyck

    drumstyck New Member

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    in the immortal words of Bill Hicks: "It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom."

    new jersey just became the 14th (i think) state to legalize medicinal marijuana...i personally think its funny that all my stoner friends rejoiced when they heard this, as tho medicinal marijuana means that suddenly we'll all have mini-farms in our backyard, and can smoke a joint in front of the president and he'd just have to stand there grooving on it (bonus points if you got the Simpsons reference).

    i had a professor in college who was a former hippie. a serious one, he was actually in the music industry, worked with Lennon & Bowie & KISS & Joan Baez & Diana Ross and many others...so obviously during music classes he would go off telling stories, and one thing he said that was life was good when it was just the softer drugs, the pot & acid...but when the hard shit like coke & heroin came into play, that's when people started dying...so he never got into the hard stuff, just stuck with the softer.

    and that's pretty much become my outlook on it. i've never done anything beyond smoking, never tried anything else like acid or shrooms or coke or heroin. i genuinely feel like marijuana is the least harmful of any illegal drug. ive never known anyone who OD'd on it, hell ive never known anyone who got into a fight while high. drunks get violent, they turn into jerks, they pick fights, they beat their wives...potheads just giggle & eat.

    and i know im generalizing, and i know its a slippery slope blahblahblah.
     
  4. englad

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    .........and pillheads grind their teeth, feel a love for everyone, hug and dance lol.

    I agree i think that far too many people have the notion that illegality somehow equals unavailability, this is false. All it means is, as was also the case with prohibition, it initiates crime waves as organised gangs as they are the only ones who distribute the drugs. After all, following simple economic law of supply and demand.
    We need education, rather than criminalisation. when i went to school our entire drug education was a police officer coming in, telling a horror story about each illegal drug that might have happened to a single user years ago, such as people jumping out of windows on lsd, or cutting their penises off on it. Then the officer said, you'll probably try it, but don't and that was it.

    Nobody taught anyone how to be sensible, if you do end up trying drugs, there's been a recent spate of deaths from people mixing uppers, alcohol and ketamine for example, because that fucks with your heart too much.

    It's also particularly disturbing seeing as the UK along with Ireland is the joint second heaviest drinking culture in europe, and the tendency is to binge drink, basically for american members, imagine the college lifestyle until you're fifty. 50,000 people a year die from its health related effects alone, not mentioning the car crash deaths, people falling from buildings cliffs, being run over because they're too drunk, injuries caused in fights whilst drunk etc

    And tobacco is of course still legal, which is one of the most addictive substances known to man, which kills 1 in 2 lifelong smokers.

    For me, the drug war is little more than two faced, confused logic, designed to protect the pound or dollar sign rather than to care about human suffering,

    just a few thoughts, interested to hear other opinions
     
  5. suprdave

    suprdave Member

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    i think the drug war is a complete joke, the money being spent is to keep the flow of drugs coming in. the whole system is a joke, some examples: the show cops, it shows a nj cop busting a car coming out of a housing plan, told them we got you on video buying drugs, they show numerous people getting busted, not the seller though. tried to help a buddy and called his parole officer, told them he's doing drugs again, they told me to mind my own business and told my buddy about it. drug testing facility tells you we test on first day and last, dont care what you do in between.
    its the same with alcohol, just a real big money making scheme.

    you want to stop the war on drugs, stop the money. make it so the cops dont see a dime of the money from fines and things unless they bust a dealer. the the money from fines and total sales go into a pot, they get a dealer they get a bonus.
    alcohol and dui's make it so they only get a set amount of money, the more people the more work they do without the money, you bust someone you get a bonus.

    its all about the money take that away and there will be no war
     
  6. midlifebear

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    The "War on Drugs" is, was, and will continue to be a bad idea. If someone wants a particular drug, he/she/or it can get it.

    It amazes me that it was OK for me to take benzedrine in the 60s to stay awake so I could work full time and attend school full time. We had lots of other legal substances back then, too. But the media classified us all as just a bunch of dirty hippies. And red necks sucking suds felt the god-given right to beat up "pot heads."

    Now look around and the irony is it's the butt fuck redneck cowboys who are whipping up batches of crystal meth in their "mobile homes." Benzedrine is no longer manufactured in most of the world. My, how times have changed. When people talk of crack whores in the USA, most folks think of the eastern seaboard version. The crack whores we have in Nevada are good ol' cuntry girlz who are too skanky to ply their profession in a real brother (having a full set of teeth is considered an asset at Donna's in Wells). Instead of getting rid of drugs, we just have the same situation when the "special righteous people" pushed and passed prohibition. Only these days the money is better to be a narcotraffico and it's not heroin the evil drug dealers are giving out as the first "samples."

    Regulate drugs, tax them, let an individual decide if being loaded 24/7 is how he/she/it wants to be. Normal, healthy folks grow out of "dangerous" drug use. Education is much more effective than just making everything illegal. But too many people on both sides of the coin are making too much money. Major city police departments have never been so dirty an corrupt.

    As for individual self-destructive behavior, well kids, those folks are going to find some way to destroy themselves no matter how much government and "special righteous people" intervene.
     
    #6 midlifebear, Feb 4, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2010
  7. drumstyck

    drumstyck New Member

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    in school we had D.A.R.E., which stood for Drug Abuse Resistance Education..."DARE To Keep Kids Off Drugs"...and it was just as you described, a local officer came and said "drugs are bad, you'll make your mommy and daddy cry, you'll never amount to anything, the end"...no real education on the subject, just trying to instill fear in us.


    marijuana basically was outlawed cuz it was actually too easy to grow...and since you can use hemp for clothes and rope and paper and all those other things woody harrelson loves, in addition to getting high, the tobacco farmer & cotton farmers & the rest of the agricultural community said "shit, if everyone starts planting & growing their own hemp, we're out of business"
     
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    I just love it when people use their brains and connect the dots! :biggrin1:
     
  9. liberia

    liberia New Member

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    I have smoked a joint EVERY evening for the past 40 years. The worlds best medicine. It has never stopped me working, studying for a degree or teaching in school, and I have never had a hangover! It is also one of the best aphrodisiacs -- before I have finished my joint, my dick is starting to get hard -- that`s why I smoke every night before bed. It also keeps the blood pressure low to normal, which is essential for good erections. We all know what total wankers politicians are, so I doubt if there will be a change in the law anytime soon. It`s crazy when you consider the damage that alchohol does to individuals and society -- 40,000 deaths from alchahol related problems per year in U.K. alone.
     
  10. Zeuhl34

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    All I remember from the DARE at my school was how fun the beer goggle were:biggrin1:. It was such an utter waste of time.
     
  11. dandelion

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    I was looking at something the other day asking views on how to stop modern trends in increasing drunken behavior. Seemed obvious to me to promote pot smoking. Has anyone done any studies to see if it might not increase your life expectancy if you smoke it?
     
  12. FuzzyKen

    FuzzyKen New Member

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    I have examined this one again and again and again. Quite frankly, it is now my belief that we could pour nearly the entire National Defense Budget into the War on Drugs employing all branches in the United States Military to do so and all we will do in the end is to make maybe a short term small dent. That is it.

    What needs to be done is to focus on some things and simply change and legalize the rest of it. If they remove some things from this and focus on the stuff that kills people the hard working men in law enforcement are going to be far more effective.

    Enforce even more toughly sanctions and laws against:

    All forms of Methamphetamine
    All forms of Cocaine
    All forms of Opiates

    Completely revamp the entire prescription drug system.

    Rx for most existing prescription pain killers, tranquilizers, anti-psychotics, combination HD anti-depressants.

    Eliminate prescriptions for:

    Anti-hypertensives, diuretics, anti-biotics, anti-virals, prostate medications, all hormone compounds and steroid compounds, gel and spray anesthetics, anti-viral drugs used in HIV and herpes treatment, ED drugs including injectables and all forms of "cosmetic drugs" including all forms of minoxidil.

    In order to make this work, the following will be necessary:

    Classroom time starting in Elementary School on basic understandings of pharmacology and the use of drugs to treat common conditions. Grades 2-6 3hrs per week. Must pass basic understandings to graduate from 6th grade.

    Grades 7-9 1 hour per day as a requirement with final exams at the end of each semester. One year requirement of this during grades 7-9.

    This one year is a requirement and must be passed with a C grade or better in order to graduate to HS

    Grades 10-12 include a requirement of 2 years and this is a requirement for graduation. No pass the course, no graduate!

    If we simplify this whole thing through early and hard education, we will cut down the abuse and we will in essence educate those most vulnerable. Those that are destined to be drug abusers are going to do it no matter what we do. Good education will apply incredible peer pressure based not on law, but on the stupidity of an individual who knows better.

    In addition, we must absolutely positively make it Federal Law that all 50 states make Sharps Containers available and OTC without question.

    The effects:

    Most Pharmacists know what good broad spectrum antibiotics are. This keeps people out of MD's offices and Emergency Rooms for sore throats and other BS minor stuff. Sore throat gets a good broad spectrum and we massively cut down the costs of medicine by doing this alone.

    Fixing the drug problems in a good way can and will reduce the costs of healthcare because people will be able to treat themselves with advice from a pharmacist.

    Is it perfect, NO it's not.

    What it will do however is to greatly reduce the strain on taxpayers for people heading into ER and related for minor things AND it will eliminate the periphery from the war on drugs allowing greater concentration on harmful stuff that kills and kills quickly creating crime.

    Some would argue this, but so far with all the money that has been poured in nothing good has happened.

    The drug lords in truth are for the stiffest laws possible. It keeps their demand high, artificially inflates prices to incredible levels, and improves their business. When some little guy at the bottom gets busted to these men it is simply a "cost of doing business" and any little guy who rolls over knows he is a dead person and will be "eliminated" in jail anyway. The biggest guys never get caught!
     
  13. dandelion

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    well i rather agree that all sorts of drugs should be de-classified and left up to people to use for themselves. And also that it would be a very good idea to teach people how to do this. I would just observe that once upon a time people did know how to use opiates sensibly, and got on perfectly well composing poetry in a drug haze (or whatever). That in fact opiates are well tolerated by the body. Then again, Britain used opiates as a major weapon against China, though arguably they were doing their level best to encourage it being used badly rather than sensibly.

    Mostly I think that if people might harm themselves, the governments duty is to explain but not to intervene (at least, not by sending people to prison). Funny how there are people on here arguing for smaller government in the US and the rights of the individual, yet they dont see this as a call to legalise drugs.

    What I find most serious is misuse of drugs which can harm other people. This squarely means things like antibiotics and antivirals. They are the most sensitive category becasue if they are misused they will become ineffectual. The medical profession thus far has not handled this well. Maybe the AMA is more responsible for failing antibiotics because it overprescribes than are Indian peasants who cant afford to buy enough.

    There is a fundamental truth here that the dangers of most recreational drugs are grossly overstated. This means that if people are properly educated about this they will simply start wondering why the hell governments have been behaving so obsessively for so long.
     
  14. cdarro

    cdarro New Member

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    At the very least simple possession of marijuana should be decriminalized, as was recommended in the LeDain commission in the 1970s here, and almost occurred in 2004. Ideally it would legalized and taxed and distributed by licensed dealers similar to the way alchohol is here, but nothing like that will happen under the present federal government.

    Although in principle I believe that adults should be able to make their own choices on what substances they choose to ingest, I still have a problem with legalizing harder drugs. But simple possession of these too (not for the purposes of trafficking; and not manufacture) should be decriminalized.

    But there really is no real "war on drugs" in Canada. It isn't perceived by the public as a major problem, though there are gangs killing each other over turf and market share. In the early 1990s a former Prime Minister tried to boost his popularity by trying to initiate a US style war on drugs and was ridiculed for it.
     
    #14 cdarro, Feb 10, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2010
  15. superbot

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    Drugs are the scurge of society and people who take them deserve everything they get!!
     
  16. gtocrzy

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    They should legalize all drugs and tax them.
     
  17. drumstyck

    drumstyck New Member

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    can you elaborate?
     
  18. superbot

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    With pleasure.Those who are idiotic enough to be poisoning their bodies should be made to realize that there are very serious implications to drug abuse.Nearly all recreational drugs are dangerous and new dangers are being discovered all the time,esp in relation to mental illness.It truly sickens me that so many people in society trivialize drug taking, esp certain high profile celebrities such as George Michael (what a f--k--g mess he is!).Speak to any policeman and they will tell you just how much of criminal activity is DIRECTLY associated with drugs,it's truly horrific. For those idiots who defend drug taking let me ask you this.If it's so great to take drugs why do so many people spend so much time, effort and money trying to get off the damn things??!!
     
  19. Pendlum

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    Control.
     
  20. dandelion

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    Now that reminds me of the argument amongst certain politicians that since children whose parents are married are more likely to get brought up well, people should be paid to get married. Duh? The proper interpretation is people get married because they are already in a strong lasting relationship. This also happens to be good for bringing up kids but is absolutely nothing to do with having a piece of paper. I remember reading a study 30 years ago that discussed the usefulness of cannabis as an antidepressant. Duh? people with mental illnesses are likely to seek treatment anywhere they can.


    well yes, of course it is. On the other hand if all the anti-drug laws were cancelled tomorrow, then it wouldnt be. Thats what drug laws do, turn happy citizens into criminals. If the law makes you an outcast just for harmlessly getting on with life, well so be it....
     
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