Drug war

[B_VinylBoy]

the war on drugs has been a disaster. Waste of money, lost lives, no results. We need comprehensive education, treatment and rehabilitation programs, not more prisons.

Say it louder, and perhaps a certain "bot" may get a clue.

 

[Hotrocker]

We just covered the drug war in my Microeconomics class at my university. This article pretty much sums the solution to the drug war up:

"[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]What then is the solution? The repeal of all laws prohibiting the production, sale, and use of drugs. Taking the crime out of drug dealing would overnight take the criminal aspects out of the drug business. No longer would there be an incentive or need for the bribing or murder of law-enforcement agents. Competition in the drug market would be peaceful, rather than violent, by being subject merely to the same laws as all other forms of business. No longer a protected monopoly, profits to be earned in the production and sale of these drugs would fall dramatically, which would remove the glamor and the high wages to be made from this type of work."
[/FONT] Taken from The Economics of the Drug War

And with this, the issue of addictive drugs and mind-altering substances would fall in the hands of the responsible adult and responsible parent: where the issue should be. The issue should NOT be a government issue with the government telling me what I can and cannot put into my own damn God-given body. The War on Drugs is an extraordinarily costly agenda that has shown almost no progress in reducing the violence involved with drug smuggling and distribution (actually, its done the opposite) and is inherently dangerous to the world's people.

 

[superbot]

Umm yeah, superbot. Do you know anyone who actually does drugs in a casual, recreational way? Some of them really don't hurt anybody. Pot, for instance, is literally impossible to OD on. No matter how much, it will not kill you.
Pure drugs are usually not as bad as people think. It's all the crap that gets mixed in with them...because they're illegal.

Er, the term 'Recreational' is the official name used to seperate drugs taken for recreational use and 'Prescription' drugs which are those to treat illness! Unfortunately your comments about pot are just about as far off the mark as they possibily could be and about 20 years out of date.But then again you would have to access current research to see how perceptions of that particular drug have altered.As far your comments about '..more education,' are concerned I would say 'Oh it were that simple.' I don't know about US,but in Britain youngsters have been taught, from as early an age as 8 or 9 yrs, about drugs, as part of the national corriculumn and this for the best part of 20 yrs! and yet drug usage in Britain has rocketed so too has its consequences.Liberal attittudes on the syllabus to sex education ditto and yet teenage pregnancies and STD's top the European league!!!! So one could argue that providing all this imformation at such a young age has had the opposite effect.Either way they are serious issues for society which unfortunately are getting worse.I have my own theroies about tackling these issues which centre on revealing to youngsters the real meaning of 'personnal responsiblity and consequencies' but hey, try telling that to the 'experts'!!!!

 

[123scotty]

allot of people here have seen used or using drugs. some more than others some just boosting. but in the end there is allot of people living a nice cosy life style. pissing themselves at how easy it is to do. while some mother is looking at her kid on a slab. and as to hot rocker yes its your body fill it with what you want but why should my taxes pay the nhs bill for your choices when it all goes belly up. we all make choices some good some bad. but i wish some people would stop justifying drug taking its your choice. hard drugs should be given sentences that make it not worth the risk of dealing.
as in china you dont get repeat offenders.

 

[superbot]

We just covered the drug war in my Microeconomics class at my university. This article pretty much sums the solution to the drug war up:

"[FONT=Times,Times New Roman]What then is the solution? The repeal of all laws prohibiting the production, sale, and use of drugs. Taking the crime out of drug dealing would overnight take the criminal aspects out of the drug business. No longer would there be an incentive or need for the bribing or murder of law-enforcement agents. Competition in the drug market would be peaceful, rather than violent, by being subject merely to the same laws as all other forms of business. No longer a protected monopoly, profits to be earned in the production and sale of these drugs would fall dramatically, which would remove the glamor and the high wages to be made from this type of work."[/FONT]
Taken from The Economics of the Drug War

And with this, the issue of addictive drugs and mind-altering substances would fall in the hands of the responsible adult and responsible parent: where the issue should be. The issue should NOT be a government issue with the government telling me what I can and cannot put into my own damn God-given body. The War on Drugs is an extraordinarily costly agenda that has shown almost no progress in reducing the violence involved with drug smuggling and distribution (actually, its done the opposite) and is inherently dangerous to the world's people.

Have you ever considered that the war on drugs is not being won because people carry on taking drugs and keep the drug barons in Colombia in a 'fat cat lifesyle' and undermine decent people getting on with their lives instead of living under the intimidation of mobsters who are doing very nicely thank you! Of course it is the job of any government to provide laws and protection from drugs THAT is what any civilized society does.If you are more worried about you're so called rights over and above scum-bag criminals and all the harm they do,they me thinks you need to have a massive re-think!!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Have you ever considered that the war on drugs is not being won because people carry on taking drugs and keep the drug barons in Colombia in a 'fat cat lifesyle' and undermine decent people getting on with their lives instead of living under the intimidation of mobsters who are doing very nicely thank you! Of course it is the job of any government to provide laws and protection from drugs THAT is what any civilized society does.If you are more worried about you're so called rights over and above scum-bag criminals and all the harm they do,they me thinks you need to have a massive re-think!!

And all you have to do is legalize certain drugs to fix THAT problem. You can start with marijuana. Doing that cuts down the value of the product they exploit to live that 'fat cat lifestyle'. The same thing happened with the lifting of prohibition.

The war on drugs benefit BOTH parties that play it... the drug lords you demonize, and the so-called pseudo-moralistic puppets who get billions of dollars from their governments to get the drugs off the street and fail miserably. Oh, and there's a third money whore in this scenario... Pharmaceutical companies! Government's legalized drug manufacturer.

For a form of technology, you are the dumbest bot I have ever seen. Maybe it's YOU that needs the re-think?

 

[dandelion]

Have you ever considered that the war on drugs is not being won because people carry on taking drugs and keep the drug barons in Colombia in a 'fat cat lifesyle' and undermine decent people getting on with their lives instead of living under the intimidation of mobsters who are doing very nicely thank you! Of course it is the job of any government to provide laws and protection from drugs THAT is what any civilized society does.If you are more worried about you're so called rights over and above scum-bag criminals and all the harm they do,they me thinks you need to have a massive re-think!!

Er, the point some of us are making is that those criminals only exist BECAUSE the drugs are illegal. People take drugs because they want to. Governments create criminals.

a llot of people here have seen used or using drugs. some more than others some just boosting. but in the end there is allot of people living a nice cosy life style. pissing themselves at how easy it is to do. while some mother is looking at her kid on a slab.

As, for example, after he has been shot in action during some stupid war for no purpose being fought somewhere no one wants us to be. I don't know what the major drugs related deaths are exactly, but I bet they are alcohol and tobacco related. In the end individuals have a right to choose what they want to do, whether they join the army and get shot, join the police and get stabbed, or are mugged to death by a junkie forced to rely on crime for a fix. You don't reckon those deaths are because of what they chose to do with drugs? Yes they are, because they chose to deny others the right to do what they wanted and suffered the backlash. But for those that chose to take drugs and suffered (rather few as I understand it), it is their choice, not their parents.

should my taxes pay the nhs bill for your choices when it all goes belly up.

well now, certainly for the major killers, alcohol and tobacco as I said, there is a definite benefit to the taxpayer from people dying before pensionable age. Altzheimers is a very slow death involving massive amounts of expensive care. If you want to benefit the taxpayer then you should be encouraging drug use.

hard drugs should be given sentences that make it not worth the risk of dealing.
as in china you dont get repeat offenders.

What happens if you try imposing a repressive dictatorial regime on people who don't agree with you is you get a revolution. Or massive state centralised control to impose order. Which outcome would you prefer, anarchy or police state?

 

[Hotrocker]

Have you ever considered that the war on drugs is not being won because people carry on taking drugs and keep the drug barons in Colombia in a 'fat cat lifesyle' and undermine decent people getting on with their lives instead of living under the intimidation of mobsters who are doing very nicely thank you! Of course it is the job of any government to provide laws and protection from drugs THAT is what any civilized society does.If you are more worried about you're so called rights over and above scum-bag criminals and all the harm they do,they me thinks you need to have a massive re-think!!

Apparently you've never taken economics into consideration. Its already been proven and finely rhetoricized (sp?) over the many years the U.S. has had a failing and disastrous drug war that THE WAR ON DRUGS MAKES CRIMINALS OUT OF NON-VIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS. The U.S. taxpayer then has to not only pay for the Drug War itself, but also for the incarceration of those the Drug War has netted. If we legalize, not only do we destroy the drug black market (a standard econ term we all know) overnight, but we also destroy the protected monopoly being enjoyed by the drug dealers, the violence associated with drugs and the best part: NO MORE PAYING FOR THE INCARCERATION OF NON-VIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS. The U.S. will most certainly earn more money than we've ever had as marijuana alone is the nation's largest and most lucrative cash crop.... PERIOD.

And to end this little informative rant: DOWN WITH BIG GOVERNMENT! ITS THE FUCKING SCOURGE OF THE FREE WORLD.

 

[tripod]

The Drug War = The Last Great White Hope

 

[justasimpleguy]

Tripod, I think I love you. I think Friedman's "free market" economics is the Last Great White Hope, but they go together.

 

[englad]

what a load of bollocks!

You are clearly as in tune with your own country's issues as you are in tune with the facts. I am 23 and my drugs education was quite literally one lecture, given by a police officer who said the odd horror freak story, and said don't do them! That was it, no information WHATSOEVER!! As for liberal policies on sex education, what liberal policies??!!!! There were a couple of weeks where you got told the basic ins and outs of heterosexual intercourse, and what happened through puberty. There was talk on contraception, but we had no education in transmission of sti's or the challenges of teenage pregnancy, and certainly nothing in the grounds of sexuality (i was at school during the infamous section 28 era). You don't see many counselors or drop in sessions at schools often, they didn't go into details about where free condom dispensaries were. Very little information spread way too thin. in holland however they do hammer all of these things home in the classroom and have the lowest sti transmission rates, the lowest teen pregnancy rates and lower rates of drug abuse! Leaving kids in the dark makes it far FAR worse!

As for the drug issue, you simply can't get past the fact that we've been trying the same tactic for forty years and are failing miserably! In the last 5 years 1% of the heroin that is consumed in scotland gets seized by the police/customs, that's not ever gonna make a dent!!! To actively change the market you'd need to be hitting at least 60%!
And driving people into a world of illegality isn't helping, explain precisely why treating drugs as a criminal justice issue is fair or efficient??!!

If the government truly wanted to dent the drug abuse figures they should either
Make better recreational drugs that are safer and keep those regulated.

OR, regulate and control the supply of all the illegal drugs, through prescriptions or in certain cases (i.e. cannabis or other less harmful illegal drugs like mushrooms or ecstasy) set up licensed premises where people can sell them. The mere illegality of them creates a climate of fear and paranoia, enabling criminal elements to have total control of the drug trade!

This has to be treated as a public health issue, we can never make any headway if we don't, because the current policies of most of the more reactionary governments in the western world is failing miserably and having a catastrophic effect on humanity!

If i were going to give drug education to teenagers i'd simply say the three golden rules,

Understand and look into a drug before you try it, know the potential side effects and risks involved, weigh it up and if you're not comfortable don't take them! Above all be honest and objective

Don't take them too young, messing with your brain's chemistry while you're developing is a bad idea, so don't take lots of drugs too young!

And thirdly, mixing is a bad idea! Understand which are particularly dangerous to mix, good examples would be potent stimulants with potent opiates! or opiates and booze would be another great example

peace out

Er, the term 'Recreational' is the official name used to seperate drugs taken for recreational use and 'Prescription' drugs which are those to treat illness! Unfortunately your comments about pot are just about as far off the mark as they possibily could be and about 20 years out of date.But then again you would have to access current research to see how perceptions of that particular drug have altered.As far your comments about '..more education,' are concerned I would say 'Oh it were that simple.' I don't know about US,but in Britain youngsters have been taught, from as early an age as 8 or 9 yrs, about drugs, as part of the national corriculumn and this for the best part of 20 yrs! and yet drug usage in Britain has rocketed so too has its consequences.Liberal attittudes on the syllabus to sex education ditto and yet teenage pregnancies and STD's top the European league!!!! So one could argue that providing all this imformation at such a young age has had the opposite effect.Either way they are serious issues for society which unfortunately are getting worse.I have my own theroies about tackling these issues which centre on revealing to youngsters the real meaning of 'personnal responsiblity and consequencies' but hey, try telling that to the 'experts'!!!!

 

[englad]

here was a thought provoking documentary by alexander mcqueen done very recently for the UK's channel four.

Enjoy guys

http://www.youtube.com/show?p=qKEAoSKB3-A&feature=fvsp

btw, first episode is on the UK the second episode is on the US situation

 

[alx]

The drug war is not working, it just fuels crime.

The thing that annoys me is the government refuses to listen to the professionals that they employ.

I hate the way people assume all recreational drugs are bad simply because that's what they have been told by society.

The media in the UK is terrible, not sure the USA was hit by the Mephedrone craze.
The new/papers announced 15 deaths from Mephedrone, when in fact there were none. The media hype increased sales by x14, under 18's were buying the stuff and this lead to it be classified B without scientific study.

 

[Calboner]

I am 23 and my drugs education was quite literally one lecture, given by a police officer who said the odd horror freak story, and said don't do them! That was it, no information WHATSOEVER!!

Drugs are bad, you shouldn't do drugs, mmkay?

 

[Randll86]

No victim, no crime.

 

[Bbucko]

I guess you could call me a radical anti-prohibitionist. Consenting adults should have the right to make whatever choices they care to as regards their own bodies: it's none of anyone else's business.

As MLB said on the first page of this thread, self-destructive people have ways of figuring out how to fuck up their lives just fine. They certainly don't need the beneficent overview of do-gooders criminalizing their personal tragedies.

Edited to add: Bring back Quaaludes: the world's a much grayer place without them.

 

[B_KendraLesnick831]

The problem with the drug war is it fuels crime and gives the government enormous power to tackle the problem, which is partially exacerbated by their own conduct.

 

[vince]

Follow the money. Too many people make buckets of money by having all recreational drugs illegal. The legal profession and the prison industry have been among the few growth sectors in the US economy in the past 30 years.

I built a 115' yacht for a guy who was making a fortune in the US supplying food to prisons and hospitals. He told me the war on drugs was the best thing that ever happened to the prison industry and the if marijuana was ever legalized, he'd be badly hurt. He and his brother were later busted by the FBI for being part of a scam in which they were paying backhanders to prison officials in exchange for contracts to supply food.

 

[xjurgen]

I wish you guys in California good luck with the PROP19 in November. And I hope California can be a good example of cannabis legalization.

 

[dandelion]

He and his brother were later busted by the FBI

So bad news for the luxury boat industry then? There was I thinking you were going to say he was running drugs.