Duplicity/Games by women

[B_Jennuine73]

My personal experiences have been very clear on this issue...the women, and men, claiming not to be playing games are the best at it.

I disagree.

Because I state my dislike and frustration for game players, that means I am a game player? Nope, not the case.

 

[javyn]

Well there's also the theory that it's so ingrained in womens' natures that most of you don't even know you are playing games. Not sure if I believe that or not, but it's irrelevant to me so I haven't pondered it much.

I disagree.

Because I state my dislike and frustration for game players, that means I am a game player? Nope, not the case.

 

[Ethyl]

Women play games.

I don't understand the rules.

I understand why they do it but I don't follow those rules. I have female friends who are of the same mind: lots of women play games with men and each other and cannot be trusted. They have been taught to be competitive with other women (often for men) and not in a good way. We, on the other hand, are lucky to have found one another. Being honest with myself about my own needs and seeking relationships with those accept me and have no desire to change me seems to be working.

I tell my daughter "you teach people how to treat you". If you put up with a person treating you like shit, lying, playing games, then don't complain. That last part was said much nicer to my little girl.

QFMFT.

Eh...I was against all the game playing until I realized just how easy it is to beat women at their own games. I'm not the typical male though, I actually can read between the lines, and pick up on womens' non-verbal communication. Add a dash of cockiness, and emotional distance and that's the perfect recipe for being "mysterious".

Doesn't that mean you're filtering out the real people you'd prefer meeting?

 

[javyn]

I never met any when I wasn't filtering, so something is better than nothing.

Doesn't that mean you're filtering out the real people you'd prefer meeting?

 

[Ethyl]

I never met any when I wasn't filtering, so something is better than nothing.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't be choosy, just that the playas you're besting are probably not the ones you'd prefer to keep company with, is all.

 

[javyn]

Most certainly not lol. That's why I never call them back.

 

[D_Selmus_Swallow]

The thing that gets me is when a lot of women act very interested in a guy sometimes to the point of being grossly flirtatious and sexual with him, then when he shows interests back, she rejects him. She makes it seem as if he's crazy for assuming that she likes him. She does all of this shit for attention. Women like that are going to come across the wrong man one day with all of that.

I also think it is beyond stupid for women to post personal ads online with their tits intentionally almost hanging out of their shirts, bending over in pics suggestively or accentuating their body in any way that is overtly sexual but write in their ads that they want to be taken seriously. They write that they don't want any men sending them sexual replies or asking them for sex. If they are doing all of that in those photographs, how can they NOT be looking for sexual attention? Otherwise, just post some nice but clear and basic photos in a flattering outfit.

Don't get me wrong, women should show their bodies off to let men see how attractive they think they are and because physical attraction is important but if they want a serious relationship, they need to present photographs that reflect their objectives. Some men will send inappropriate replies anyway, but MEAN what you say and SHOW what you MEAN.

The attention seekers are the ones that play games. They need the ego boost and will do anything stupid thing to get it when dealing with men. They get off on mixed messages and playing with people instead of being straight and direct with what they want. These are women who seem like they don't understand men. They don't need to do all of that shit to attract men. It's not that complex. They are behaving as if they are attracting other women.

There is a difference between not acting like you are extremely easy for anyone to get and being a bitch.

All true, with the bold part for emphasis on some things that absolutely drive me nuts and seem to be fairly common.

 

[sxy_vince]

Women play games.

I don't understand the rules.

I don't understand the reason behind it. If you want something, ask for it. If you need something, ask for it. If something upsets you, say it. Don't act one way and feel another.

I don't know if a woman feels like her true feelings won't be respected, I have no idea.

In this thread someone said, "you passed the test". Test? What is it , the 1st grade? If a person feels they have to "test" the other, then why are they together?

:smile:

This is an interesting thread, and I appreciate the thought-provoking comments by Jennuine - I suspect that I lot of men will sympathise. Its great that you don't play games and are honest in your relationships.

However I find myself in the surprising position of being inclined to defend (sort of) the typical woman and their "games"!

I think that women are often creating "tests" because they can't get the information they want just by asking because a man could always lie. For example, a woman who is looking for a serious relationship could just ask a man if he is serious before sleeping with him, but he could lie; alternatively, she could create a "test" in which she waits 3 months and this would effectively discourage any man who wasn't interested.

In my understanding of female psychology, women are more guarded and cautious when it comes to sex and relationships; I think that women "test" men before before they have sex and they will "test" men during relationships if they begin to doubt his love and commitment. For example: Does he remember my birthday? Does he have a gentle side? Is he good with children? Does he care enough to take onboard my subtle hints? I think all women do this to some extent.

Actions speak louder than words and "tests" elicit certain actions.

But would love to hear womens' perspective on my thoughts, even if they disagree!

 

[crossy]

Even with my awesome I.Q I don't understand this thread at all. What I hear from the girls response is the men with the little wieners tend to lie the most.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Even with my awesome I.Q I don't understand this thread at all. What I hear from the girls response is the men with the little wieners tend to lie the most.

It's probably because your IQ isn't that awesome.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Women play games.

I don't understand the rules.

Then you must have a lot of sympathy for what men have to go thru daily.

I don't understand the reason behind it. If you want something, ask for it. If you need something, ask for it. If something upsets you, say it. Don't act one way and feel another.

You sound like my kind of woman....

Women are supposed to be the better communicators in our human species. Isn't that what research says? How we run on more on an emotional intimacy than men do? I don't understand how intimacy can happen when there are all these tests and games in the middle.

Rant over.:smile:

Women THINK they are better communicators...
That is absolutely not true.

What they are is far more NUANCED communicators... they invest ALL of their communications with far more emotional content than do males.

They are generally incapable of NOT layering meaning in their inflection and choice of words.... and because so much of what they are conveying is not grammatical in the sense of the bare meaning of the actual words... It becomes a game and rivalry with other women to see how subtle thay can make their communications.

Women can cut other women to the bone while, seemingly, paying them a COMPLIMENT!?

Why women are not good communicators is that they make the ASSUMPTION that EVERYONE is communicating in this fashion... they tend to IMAGINE meaning in Male communications that is simply not there.

EVERY guy knows the feeling of trying to say something nice, and having a woman take it as an insult...
Its because women tend to assume men are layering meaning the way women do.

Men are not.


One of the primary reasons women have such a hard time being effective Bosses is because they have a very hard time being EMOTIONALLY NEUTRAL in their communications.

A good example of this is comparing episodes of Star Trek the Next Generation, to Star Trek Voyager.

The male commander in the former manages to strike a perfectly neutral tone when overriding the suggestions of his crew...
THe female commander in the latter, even tho TRYING to act like a competent commander, can not help but give an emotional inflection that makes it clear she thinks the crew's suggestions are vapid.


Women's more subtle and layered sense of language, unfortunately, bleeds over into all their perceptions... then tend to imagine meaning in practically everything.

This is why women are so much more prone to magical thinking than are men.
They tend to fall for the power of crystals, aroma therapy, healing touch, etc, simply because they Imagine layers of meaning in everything.

The games women play are based upon the assumption that others are lying and they lay traps to reveal the lies they assume are there.
Basically... its a form of distrust.

 

[deleted356736]

I have had a multi-cultural love life, and while the above comments relate to Western women on the whole, they do not relate to women from many non-Western cultures. Many women in non-Western cultures are quite happy to converse in a straightforward masculine style, and these women often have as many difficulties communicating with Western women as we men do! I know this from my African wife, who doesn't understand Australian women at all! But I have known women from many other cultures beyond Africa.

I put this inability to speak directly down to Western-Christian oppression of women, who had few rights until very recent times. This made them introverted communicators, never trusting their position enough to speak what they truly felt or ask what they truly wanted to know. I believe this to be the case because women from other culural backgrounds are generally more extroverted communicators.

Another general observation of women is they have strong expectations of relationships, and will test the relationship to ascertain its soundness. Many relationship-testing games can be avoided by us men remembering this and behaving accordingly. A non-sexual kiss or embrace, bringing home some flowers for no special reason, or other little treats keep women secure that they are truly loved beyond sex, and therefore they have no need to test our love any further.

We men on the other hand tend to equate sex with love and love with sex: if she's having sex with me she loves me / she loves me she wants to have sex with me. Women who are REALLY SMART and tuned into men will realise this, and keep their men happy and faithful by agreeing to share good and regular sex with them.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

I have had a multi-cultural love life, and while the above comments relate to Western women on the whole, they do not relate to women from many non-Western cultures. Many women in non-Western cultures are quite happy to converse in a straightforward masculine style, and these women often have as many difficulties communicating with Western women as we men do! I know this from my African wife, who doesn't understand Australian women at all! But I have known women from many other cultures beyond Africa.

My bad... I should absolutely have qualified that this behavior is at its worst in western and particularly American culture... because for 30 years women have been propagandizing themselves as faultless and their opinions and feelings as being more valid than anyone else's

I have met women from other cultures who seem perfectly able to entertain the notion that a man can sometimes be right.

 

[Jovial]

A woman can create these "tests" to determine certain things, but the problem is the tests a lot of times seem to give incorrect answers. Seems like women eliminate men for silly reasons and keep them for silly reasons also based on these tests.

 

[Kassokilleri2ff]

Haha, this thread reminds me of something. I visited a friend that I knew like 5 or so years ago. I met his girlfriend and all that. They are all poor of course (i come from poor people land). So they shared a cell phone. Well apparently his girlfriend liked me alot, and she would play silly games on the phone. She would say she was my friend, (these are text messages obviously) and be like "so what do you think about my gf?" "do youthink she is hot? would you fuck her?" blah blah. Furthermore, I had talked to her on aim, since she has a computer and he does not, he has to go to her house to use myspace and instant messanger and such. So I end up talking to her on AIM and she tells me about how my friend is a bad boyfriend and all this. I forget what she did but she wanted to "introduce" me to one of her friends. So I talk to "her friend" who is really just her on another name. And this "friend" is asking similar questions that she asked on the phone. I could have easily called her bluff. It was all so obvious, but I didn't want to make her feel bad for being caught so I just sort of went along with it and ignored her. I sort of had to stop talking to my friend back in the day just to avoid her since i never knew when he or she had the phone when. But oh well. Its all pretty silly though.

 

[Drifterwood]

One thing I can be absolutely sure of saying, is that if you are a game player and you get caught out, the object of your games will resent you forever.

I have two exes that were game players and they are the only two that aren't still friends. It is a shame, but I am now very guarded both in my private and business life about gameplayers. Some do it out of insecurity, some from boredom and the buzz they get, and some see it as the only way that they can get what they want. Personally, I see game playing as a substitute for having real talent/charecter etc etc.

 

[Drifterwood]

I have met women from other cultures who seem perfectly able to entertain the notion that a man can sometimes be right.

Even after meeting you :tongue: ?

 

[Gillette]

Women can cut other women to the bone while, seemingly, paying them a COMPLIMENT!?

"I love your pants! Black is so slimming isn't it?"

"Fuck you, too."

One of the primary reasons women have such a hard time being effective Bosses is because they have a very hard time being EMOTIONALLY NEUTRAL in their communications.

A good example of this is comparing episodes of Star Trek the Next Generation, to Star Trek Voyager.

The male commander in the former manages to strike a perfectly neutral tone when overriding the suggestions of his crew...
THe female commander in the latter, even tho TRYING to act like a competent commander, can not help but give an emotional inflection that makes it clear she thinks the crew's suggestions are vapid.

Points lost for citing fiction.
Were her lines written by a male or female?

For the record, being emotionally neutral in communication can also work against a woman in the workplace. Many men have their own perception of how women should behave and if a woman asserts herself or her opinion without whatever 'decorum' is expected of her she'll get shit on.

Example.

If I made an assertion in the form of a mere possibility in a question, my male counterpart could agree in the form of a declarative statement.

When the same situation occurred and I made the same assertion in the form of a declarative statement it resulted in his resitance to the idea.

Whose game is that?



As for life in general my experience echos Kotchanski's and similarly I've chosen to avoid friendships with most women.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

Points lost for citing fiction.
Were her lines written by a male or female?

Ah- but the whole point is is that it was a fiction. And that it doesn't matter who wrote the lines.
The woman playing the role was TRYING to come across as a respected, capable, and authoritative leader of her crew. She wanted to seem believable as the Captain of a starship...

But, being a woman raised in the era she was raised in... she could not help but inflect far more emotion into her lines...
WHen you contrast the manner of both Captains..... she is clearly NOT doing it the way that Patrick Stewart played Captain.

And the difference is in the subtle inflection and hidden emotional content...

For the record, being emotionally neutral in communication can also work against a woman in the workplace. Many men have their own perception of how women should behave and if a woman asserts herself or her opinion without whatever 'decorum' is expected of her she'll get shit on.

I can not agree... this is a common cop out that women turn to... but it is an evasion of responsibility for their own actions. And, like so many evasions... it seeks to blame men.
It has nothing to do with decorum, or asserting yourself...it has to do with when and in what tone.
I can tell you that MOST women, when asserting themselves, are NOT emotionally neutral... that is when they tend to load their communications with the most emotion.

I have heard women in positions of authority "claim" that when men act assertive they are called "aggressive" but when THEY act assertive, they get called bitches...
And I try to explain to them that, no, in fact, when Male bosses act the way THEY are acting, we men call them ASSHOLES.... and that there are plenty of asshole bosses of both genders.

What is missing for most women in the workforce is the childhood experience of team sports that most men go thru.

Thru team sports boys learn a lot about hierarchies of authority... not only how to lead, and what makes a good leader... but also how to properly follow... how to submit to authority.
Not ALL men learn these lessons well... It is as important to be able to lead, without diminishing those you command, as it is to learn how to submit to another's authority without sacrificing your own sense of self.

( and BTW- the glass ceiling is not a gender issue... its a who you know issue... 99% of men in the workforce will never be given the top jobs... simply because they are not the son of the right guy, who golfs with some other right guy. )

In my experience, many Female bosses tend to use veiled criticism or in an attempt to motivate, rather than be direct, or simply set reasonable goals.
I had one female boss who would ask me point blank how many designs I could have for her by a certain date... I might say 12...
Next time I saw her, she would say, how's my 14 designs coming?
The time After that it would be " where's my 16 designs?"

She would always say it laughingly.. like she was joking... and she may have thought she was, in a good natured way, pushing me to do more...
But the actual result was that neither I nor any other artist she was in charge of ever felt like we were appreciated... that our hard work was never enough to satisfy her.

She wasn't mean... but as a leader of a design team, she utterly failed to build any sense of camaraderie, teamwork, or esteem in her workers. And as much as we might have liked her as a person... we ALL hated working for her.


That being said, I have also had female bosses that were every bit as good at it as the best male bosses I have known... but , because so few women are taught as girls to deal with hierarchies of authority, it is a rare skill to see in women.

If I made an assertion in the form of a mere possibility in a question, my male counterpart could agree in the form of a declarative statement.

When the same situation occurred and I made the same assertion in the form of a declarative statement it resulted in his resitance to the idea.

Whose game is that?

Well, to be honest , it could still entirely be your game.

What you are describing sounds pretty common. I have seen this same dynamic in all MALE environments... and I have seen the same resistant reaction from Females to declarative statements made by males.

Perhaps you are more sensitive to this when it happens to you than when it is happening to other?

Also... you are making a logical error in your argument in that it is a false comparison..
There is almost certainly a difference in the NATURE of those things you suggest, versus those things you declare.
Claiming they are equivalent and the response you get different is conveniently exculpatory... but is simply not true.


In point of fact, declaration is close to command. I can tell you that, as a man in a business meeting with other men, I have to try and be careful to only make declarative statements over those aspects over which I have been given clear and unequivocal authority.

I can suggest in other areas... and others can back up my suggestions... but making declarative statements in front of peers is seen by your peers as a power grab. As a CLAIM to authority.

If they acquiesce, they endorse your authority and before you know it,even your boss thinks you have that authority. Promotions may follow...

Now, men do this in the workforce... they make these kind of power grabs all the time... its part of clawing your way up...
But when other men see them doing it, they react with the very resistance you describe.

I have seen men who pull this kind of stunt regularly find that their co-workers often act to undermine them.

And this is part of the issue, too. The corporate world is NOT a "fun time"... it is MEN BATTLING FOR ADVANTAGE.
Its no different than male elks locking horns in rut.

The mistake women make in the workforce is in thinking its all about consensus.... its not... its a place of intense cutthroat competition.
( why I got out of it )

So, it could well be that what you imagine to be a gender issue is in fact men treating you exactly the way they treat each other.


A truly great leader is the person who knows how to elicit the support of his co workers such that they WANT to see him or her become their boss.

And I can tell you that, even among men, it is a rare trait




Finally...
MOST people knee jerk to being TOLD... as opposed to being asked.

Unfortunately... most American women have adopted TELLING people what to do as their right.

 

[D_Prudence_Admonition_Drightits]

My bad... I should absolutely have qualified that this behavior is at its worst in western and particularly American culture... because for 30 years women have been propagandizing themselves as faultless and their opinions and feelings as being more valid than anyone else's

I have met women from other cultures who seem perfectly able to entertain the notion that a man can sometimes be right.

This sounds like you described most white, male Republicans. I had to go back and check the thread.:redface::redface: