You know how I deal with creepy bastids? I get creepy right back. They tend to run when I say something off-putting, like 'That's hot. Let's get married tomorrow and I'll live off of you like a leech!'
That usually saves my energy to my usual e-asshattery.
This is an excellent counter strategy! :biggrin1:
I fully endorse this method.
I've been on this site for five years and during that time i've encountered plenty of nauseating behaviour...some I don't even want to go into detail here. I've learned to keep my distance or call the person on their antics if it's really disturbing depending on the situation. Sometimes it's best left alone but other times it needs to be immediately addressed.
Unfortunately the really creepy offenders aren't always easy to spot.
This is the point, I think the reason I wanted to start this thread was because I wanted to start the discussion which might alert everyone who either didn't know this kind of strategy exists, or who find it difficult to spot it being deployed to its existence and to perhaps make it easier for it to be spotted. It would also hopefully alert those who use this strategy to the fact that some people are aware of it and that there presumptions about women's abilities to know when they're being manipulated and
handled are wrong.
Kittie et. al.:
Not all women (in fact, not all
people) are as socially-skilled as all that. I have ADHD and just the tiniest bit of a few other disorders that make one literally unable to read social cues and situations until it's too late if at all.
Does being oblivious, or even, leaving people like me out of it for the time being, less-intelligent than average but not mentally retarded, make someone a "suitable victim" in your eyes? You know, somehow not as mainstream and "normal" as you are, or, at least, not as hip in his or her abnormality as you are? Is there a group, to put it bluntly, that you are sick and tired of because they are, in your mind, the kind of people who are meant, societally, as a class of people, to "take it" like the freaks they are and not whine as much as the "normal" people or the hip freaks?
Further, are you one of those women (and I've met plenty before) who yells "No Woman Deserves To Be Raped!!!" at a rally, but, in her mind, adds an asterisk whose referent is a whole list of types you've encountered who "don't really count, and
everyone knows
that 
!" ?
This is the flip side of the coin, while I'm sure most women can spot the manipulation, there are plenty of women who can't, and not having the skills necessary to pick up on them doesn't make you stupid, indeed individuals of both sexes can be startlingly clever people who don't have a specific set of life skills (for one reason or another) which might make them better prepared for this kind of thing.
Are you saying that any man who agrees with female equality issues is a closet stalker waiting to pounce on the poor duped women. That's a broad brush you are using. It's also a little sexist to assume that women are that stupid.
No. I'm absolutely not saying that. My OP was quite clear that these are a specific sub-set of men, and that being the case I don't even think these men form a very large portion of men in general or indeed of men who use this site. But you can blatantly misrepresent my words instead if you like.
As to the OP, I think those guys stand out like belisha beacons in real life. They tend to do the 'creepy eyes' thing - that is their eyes move a lot in conversation. They may even have the open and non-threatening body language thing off pat but their eyes dart about. That's my experience, anyway.
That's so true, spotting these guys in the flesh is much easier than online, especially for those with an expert eye for body language or micro-expressions.
Thizer brings up an interesting point about people who're body language illiterate though.
Here, and elsewhere online, they're a little harder to spot at first, or can be. But there's no real way of disguising smarm. It's not that different from female friends who give each other genuine compliments versus those who simply state that everything is 'gorgeous' and / or 'ravishing' - they're easy to catch out.
Does the existence an behaviour of this type of man insult me? Yes, a little, I suppose - but no more than, and in no different manner than, the existence and behaviour of the archetypal wolf-whistling construction worker.
Do I feel sorry for the women that befriend these men, seemingly unknowingly. Well, no - not really. It'd be a bit condescending of me to assume it is unknowing to start with. There are plenty of women who choose to deal with the wolf-whistlers by taking the compliment side of it, even responding in kind with a sexual gesture. That's their choice - it's not my right to say they shouldn't deal with that attention that way. And in this case maybe the women who respond to these smarmy men do so knowing full well what's going on but choosing to enjoy the attention - to take the positive from it. That's their prerogative.
Well I suppose that's why I'm interested in starting this discussion I wanted to see to what extent women are bothered by this phenomenon, and indeed if they're bothered by it at all.
I agree with you that this type of strategy is essentially the same as the old fashioned less subtle strategies which some men have deployed to try to seduce women and I agree with you that women in turn have their own entirely personal feelings about and reactions to these tactics. It would actually be interesting to know to what extent women are prepared to accept these strategies and to return sexual manipulation for sexual manipulation in turn.
I completely agree with you that it may be the case that plenty of women choose to knowingly engage in this kind of manipulative form of seduction, and just like you I have no reason or right to question their choice. I wouldn't presume to speculate about the decisions consenting adults fully aware of the facts make about who they choose to engage with and have contact of any kind with.
The extent to which knowing mutual manipulation is an undercurrent in almost all human interactions, speaking from a strictly psychological and behavioural perspective is interesting.
Oh cool, let's start a witch hunt. Let's have some paranoia and another blanket accusation to be levelled at str8 guys for which there is no defense.
Otherwise, I happen to agree with what my female friends have been saying.
NB - this post in no way implies that I am trying to weedle my sick way into your panties. Besides which I was whacking off on the fantasy that you aren't wearing any.
No not cool, not cool at all. As I made clear to Patchos, I had no particular member in mind when I wrote the OP and nor did I invite anyone to name and shame other members. I wouldn't be comfortable with that at all. I also specifically pointed out that this kind of strategy is not the exclusive preserve of straight men.
I believe that men can only be friends with a woman if there's no sexual attraction from either side. so in plain words she must be sort of ugly for me to become actuall friends with her.
And it actually makes me sick to see how many women like to think how many male friends they have because these guys can pretend for years and years to be that special friend.
IF I ever do try to tell anyone that, I get the typical response that not everyone is like me.
I don't believe good looking women can have no genuine male friends and I don't accept the analysis that women are valued by men in general purely for their looks or indeed lack of them.
Plenty of men can have perfectly platonic friendships with women regardless of whether they might think their female friends as good looking. There are also a plethora of male/female friendships in which mutual attraction is part of the mix but because both friends are honest with each other and prefer to be friends rather than lovers they make being friends the focus of their relationship rather than anything else.
But there are men out there who
do court female friendship as a calculated tactic and who portray themselves as friends thinking that in doing so they have a better chance of scoring with the women they've pretended to be friends with.
Online is actually somewhere where you can both like someone and find them sexy, and respect them with no quid pro quo.
Expressing that in a way to someone that isn't interpreted by some other people as creepy, is not necessarily easy.
That's not true really, I see people doing that all that time here, and as I pointed out above many relationships between men and women (indeed between human beings generally) have as part of their basis mutual attraction, that's perfectly natural, and it's not the subject of my OP.
Friends can flirt and be able to be honest about their attraction to one another exactly because they're genuinely friends, which implies a base level of mutual trust and honesty.
The kind of phenomenon I'm describing is quite different, its where one participant in an interpersonal interaction (in this case a specific subset of men) deceitfully misrepresents themselves in order to obtain friendship from someone which they intend or at least hope to parlay in to sexual attention.
