Eight boys die in botched circumcision.

[B_Morning_Glory]

Take a deep breath every one.



Where are you lot in the Africa threads that are posted in the Politics section and ETC? I don't recall seeing any of you there. I wonder whether some of you could even point to it on a map.


oh yes I'm sure we could point it out on the map for you drifterwood if you cant find it. we would be glad to point you in the right direction.

I am happy. I don't live in a country that has RIC.

glad your happy where you at thats were you belong why be someplace you don't like? but I'm sure if you look around you will find that their are those someplace where you live that are circumcised be it young or old they are their someplace.

fact the US is the only western country that still does.

other countries still do it as well just not as well as our medical knowledge here does it. after all your article would prove me right on this wouldn't it?

But then obviously we are all wrong, and you are right.

if you posted this just because it had the word circumcision connected to it yes you are most defiantly wrong an if that is so i don't have any ill feeling in telling you so. but yes we are right on circumcision as it has many many good merits an benefits attached to it. its your wish to like and prefer your foreskin thats fine with me really i dont care. but it is also my wish to prefer the circumcised cock, an i don't bash anyones preference until they start bashing mine an others.


now to show you i now somewhat about Africa an its people dying children as well as adults. did you know about the newest out break of the virus called LUJO? it is like the EBOLA virus only many many times worse. 5 people have died so far of it an more have contracted it, i don't recall the latest at the moment but can get it for you if you want. an one death was a women. [you fail to mention any thing concerning women except female circumcision that I've seen any place so I'm just saying here is all. take no offense as none is meant] this is running ramped in ZAMBIA SOUTH AFRICA. in-case for some reason your unaware of this virus [ LUJO ] the Dr. who discovered it was a Dr. IAN LIPKIN. He is the epidemiologist trying to study it an find a way to at least control it in some way at the university of Columbia, by the way this virus was found last sept. maybe you know and i missed you posting it here, if so my apologizes to you for telling you something you already know, if you don't then now you know for sure huh?. so you see some of us are up on African an other counties as well. but on this site at times if the word circumcision isn't attached to the illness or the tragic event, it gets over looked an isn't relevant. but if something becomes of someone be it a child or an adult due to circumcision or a difficulty then its front page news here. to hell with the women an their illness and or women every where in the world. but if it foreskin or circumcision trouble then by all means print it. [ WRONG ] agreed i don't get into the thread much you mentioned but i do once in a while. i do try to be informed other ways tho on things, and it isn't fox news or msnbc alone here either. having said all that it was tragic this happened to these kids for sure yes, but unlike Africa an some other cultures we don't go out into the woods with rusty razor blades an start cutting every foreskin kid or adult an leave them their to bleed and fend for themselves after the fact. thanks for posting about it tho. i did read something on it but it was in parts.. now can we all get back on track here.

 

[B_Morning_Glory]

Yes indeed there is something that can be done.

A $10 Mosquito Net Is Making Charity Cool

Donating $10 to buy a mosquito net to save an African child from malaria has become a hip way to show you care, especially for teenagers. The movement is like a modern version of the March of Dimes, created in 1938 to defeat polio, or like collecting pennies for Unicef on Halloween.

Crucial to the drive against malaria, which kills an estimated one million people a year, mostly in Africa, has been the development of an inexpensive, long-lasting insecticidal net.

Up to 3,000 children die needlessly each day of malaria — and all they need is a net.”

So one million vs. 8 or 20 or 50. You do the math.

i remember that SARGON forgot it until i seen your post. my boys class in school took donations from selling flower seeds an many things an the money was to all be donated to buy these cloths. the things we forget sometimes huh? least i did .

 

[mandoman]

Vinal Boy, while those statistics are nice, they are never going to include circumcision statistics. The doctors always put circumcision problems under another header, like MRSA, excessive bleeding, staph infection, etc. Circumcision in the US is a proven moneymaker, and a cultural hand grenade. People cling to it like a blanket, because they can't accept the fact that an important part of them hit the operating room floor, so it must not have value, or else they were wronged. The medical establishment can't reverse itself now, because they have invested so heavily. We've always been told it was desirable, to prevent penile cancer (which is exceedingly rare), uterine cancer (caused by HPV, not having a foreskin), etc. The AAP quotes an estimated total cost of $US150-270 million for the US annually. There will never be a study in the US, because it would knock down profits. Cynical, but true. They can't reverse position, because they told us to do it. Dr. Spock was one of the brave ones who did reverse position, after having his son done, and advising that all boys be done. Circumcision has been vastly reduced in the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, etc.

 

[patrick9999]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and requires only a hint of intelligence - as is evident here.

This thread has led me to believe that there are thigs that should be removed from certain people at birth but foreskins aren't one of them.

However, carry on in your blissful ignorance as it's your right and that should't be taken away from you

 

[B_hungdownunder]

yes thankfully the practice is not common now here in australia. it wasnt always that way .
i am 36, the bulk of guys my age were cut. thankfully my dad thought it was barbaric and my foreskin was leaft alone. apart from the medical arguements what about pleasure. the foreskin keeps the head more sensitive and the foreskin is just something else to play with.....and thats always got to be a good thing

 

[B_Morning_Glory]

apart from the medical arguements what about pleasure. the foreskin keeps the head more sensitive


some can think that if they want being. but a lot of research shows different as well as some guys being the same as far as sensitivity. but their are a lot of people who disagree on it an they have had a foreskin an gotten cut so i think they would know better about this than someone who still has a foreskin, as they only know on thing foreskin.. they know nothing about being circumcised or how it feels. just as the other way around as well. unless like i said they been both ways,but from some of these past threads started here lately other than to just get people to argue or what ever for the fun of it[ in most cases ] there are lots of uncut guys with foreskin problems by some of the questions they are asking. so that alone should be reason enough if you have a problem to get the useless skin an the mess associated with it off an enjoy much better sex. if you have foreskin an no problems an like it fine. but if not a person shoul be able to do something about his if he want to do so. do a search and you will see what i mean here on the threads from uncut with supposedly foreskin problems. be it for real or a joke, nothing wrong with asking questions but if the problems are really that serous. do something about it an don't knock the guys who already have. not saying you are here. but lots do here.

 

[DiscoBoy]

Yes indeed there is something that can be done.

A $10 Mosquito Net Is Making Charity Cool

Donating $10 to buy a mosquito net to save an African child from malaria has become a hip way to show you care, especially for teenagers. The movement is like a modern version of the March of Dimes, created in 1938 to defeat polio, or like collecting pennies for Unicef on Halloween.

Crucial to the drive against malaria, which kills an estimated one million people a year, mostly in Africa, has been the development of an inexpensive, long-lasting insecticidal net.

Up to 3,000 children die needlessly each day of malaria — and all they need is a net.”

So one million vs. 8 or 20 or 50. You do the math.

I stand corrected.

That, however, doesn't change the fact that circumcision is something that can be actively protested against. Posting an article about deaths caused by circumcision would circulate a lot more discussion than an article about deaths caused by malaria. It's sad, but it's the truth. So you can't really be accusing someone of certain things because they chose to create a thread about the more "interesting" topic.

 

[deleted15807]

Vinal Boy, while those statistics are nice, they are never going to include circumcision statistics. The doctors always put circumcision problems under another header, like MRSA, .............

Huum now how can you prove that? And I would be very interested to see who is getting rich on a $100-$200 procedure.

I stand corrected.

That, however, doesn't change the fact that circumcision is something that can be actively protested against. Posting an article about deaths caused by circumcision would circulate a lot more discussion than an article about deaths caused by malaria. It's sad, but it's the truth. So you can't really be accusing someone of certain things because they chose to create a thread about the more "interesting" topic.

Sensationalism to a willing crowd is all it is. A 'crowd' that outside of this neverland of LPSG simply is too small to be of any consequence. As I said earlier and it still stands if you are genuinely interested in children dying in Africa worry about malaria worry about famine worry about war but do not worry about circumcision. If you do you look like the loon you are. It's what governments and health officials worry about. They don't worry about male circumcision.

 

[sexplease]

people die and are demeaned and tortured, mentally, physically and emotionally because of archaic beliefs and often out-of-date religious dogma.
Humans and ALL life is free from it's inception THEN mankind and it's ignorant and often idiotic cultural sometimes shoves that drivel into societies (civilization) doings and brings ugliness upon itself in search of answers and higher purpose.

Not until all people realize WE are ALL EQUAL beings, can we than work towards a better and more comfortable co-existence with each other and the world as a whole.
Symbiosis is everywhere in the universe except in the egos of humankind.

Michael*

 

[drenker]

Yes indeed there is something that can be done.

A $10 Mosquito Net Is Making Charity Cool

Donating $10 to buy a mosquito net to save an African child from malaria has become a hip way to show you care, especially for teenagers. The movement is like a modern version of the March of Dimes, created in 1938 to defeat polio, or like collecting pennies for Unicef on Halloween.

Crucial to the drive against malaria, which kills an estimated one million people a year, mostly in Africa, has been the development of an inexpensive, long-lasting insecticidal net.

Up to 3,000 children die needlessly each day of malaria — and all they need is a net.”

So one million vs. 8 or 20 or 50. You do the math.

The difference here is that a disease is not something which people directly cause eachother. It's the same thing with terrorism, it's a very minor inconvenience really if you look at the number of dead, but seeing as it is humans deliberately harming other humans, 9/11 was considered far worse than the car crashes that killed 42,196 people in the US alone that year.

A disease isn't something you pick, but you're the only one in charge of your actions and the consequences you create for others.
My point is that circumsicion is totally unnecessary and if people are hurt from it, why continue doing it?

 

[deleted15807]

My point is that circumsicion is totally unnecessary and if people are hurt from it, why continue doing it?

Whether it is 'necessary' is not really up to you to say is it? If you don't feel it's necessary don't do it. This is case is not a cause celebre as it was not performed by a doctor more like witch doctor who performed it. As I said earlier women used to bleed to death getting abortions in alleys. Well the answer isn't to ban abortion but to have them performed by board certified doctors.

By the way you are aware that the World Health Organization does not share your view in it being 'totally unnecessary'.

 

[drenker]

Whether it is 'necessary' is not really up to you to say is it? If you don't feel it's necessary don't do it. This is case is not a cause celebre as it was not performed by a doctor more like witch doctor who performed it. As I said earlier women used to bleed to death getting abortions in alleys. Well the answer isn't to ban abortion but to have them performed by board certified doctors.

By the way you are aware that the World Health Organization does not share your view in it being 'totally unnecessary'.

They only say that it may decrease the risk of getting aids/HIV, studies indicate that the risk of experiencing certain problems within the genital area increases by 20 times in someone who's been circumcised.

A 1999 study of 48 boys who had complications from traditional male circumcision in Nigeria found that haemorrhage occurred in 52% of the boys, infection in 21% and one child had his penis amputated.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumsision#cite_note-128

Ouch. As for the medical necessity of circumcision versus abortion, I do not even know why you used that as a metaphor, everyone but catholics know that abortion is a very effective way of staying in control of ones' body.

 

[B_Morning_Glory]

My point is that circumsicion is totally unnecessary and if people are hurt from it, why continue doing it?


well people are hurt in car wrecks to and they are still doing the job of making cars. no difference just different circumstances an a play on words and trying to make something out of nothing. like was posted earlier here. their is by far more worries about other things in the world than circumcision. people die from way more serious things. circumcision doesn't even make the list on them only here on this site.their are risk to any surgery be it minor or a Major one. also as to this argument of death from circumcision. isn't quite right . supposedly it is always a child according to whats always posted here about it. you never hear about an adult dieing from circumcision an it sure is done allot to adults. seems a little strange to me here blaming a death of every male child on circumcision, it just don't happen that way as its been tried to be represented here by some of the anti-circs. even tho in this case it mite have been. its in Africa an some other countries as well. no sterilization. no clean equipment used, the person being filthy doing the circ. an many other things in these countries. thats the problem not circumcision in itself.

 

[D_Jerry_Atric]

Ohh and since we're going to the BBC for stories.....and right next to the OP's story:

BBC NEWS | Africa | Mass circumcision to fight Aids

Professor Alan Whiteside said all boys born in public hospitals should be offered the operation.


"It is so blindingly obvious that there are real reasons for circumcision," he said at a national Aids conference.
​

Condoms and safer sex work far better than circumcision does at preventing men from getting HIV/AIDS.

In the US, the greatest portion of men currently infected with HIV are those born when the percentage of men being circumcised was at it's highest. If the theory really worked, a great number of those men would not have been infected.

It is safe sex, personal hygiene, use of condoms, and other common sense practices that prevent HIV, removing a foreskin will in and of itself play a percentage role that is so low as to be the equivalent of winning Powerball.

One of the things I can see in this is the desire of the medical community to create a new way to extract money from government funded medical agencies as a "preventative". If the presence or absence of a foreskin was a major factor, and considering that we have been in an HIV present world for about 30 years, don't you think that this factor would have come out before now? Again, this has the earmarks of a profit maker more than the earmarks of a disease process preventative.

 

[BIGBULL29]

Ouch. As for the medical necessity of circumcision versus abortion, I do not even know why you used that as a metaphor, everyone but catholics know that abortion is a very effective way of staying in control of ones' body.

Most of you anti-circ nuts believe that a woman has the right to kill her baby through abortion (baby has no say whether he lives or not), but she does not have the right to remove a piece of skin off a baby boy's penis, which is not going to have any effect on his sexuality as an adult. That just isn't making sense to me (no, I am not opposed to abortion in all circumstances).

The decision ultimately rests with the parents, but who are we all to say that nature always knows best? And even if culture wins out over nature, don't all parents make "irreversible" decisions for their children while they grow up? Circumcision is a much more "trivial" one among many more serious ones, I'm afraid.

Also, if male circumcision destroyed men's ability to thoroughly enjoy sex like female circumcision does, the practice would have never started.

 

[B_Morning_Glory]

They only say that it may decrease the risk of getting aids/HIV, studies indicate that the risk of experiencing certain problems within the genital area increases by 20 times in someone who's been circumcised.
:bsflag::bsflag:


abortion is a very effective way of staying in control of ones' body.

their must be a lot of people who cant control their body's then huh? seeing as there are so many UN wanted pregnancy's.

 

[B_Morning_Glory]

Most of you anti-circ nuts believe that a woman has the right to kill her baby through abortion (baby has no say whether he lives or not), but she does not have the right to remove a piece of skin off a baby boy's penis, which is not going to have any effect on his sexuality as an adult? That just isn't making sense to me.


hot dam big bull i was just waiting on someone to bring that up. congratulations on this one. now let us Wait an see how the anti-circ nuts we have here try an weasel out of that one. to them its OK to kill a baby and or fetus.. or any other way they can think of to sugar coat that killing it is OK. with out the child's consent i maite add here.. but they don't see it this way concerning circumcision. just show how DUMB the IDIOT ANTI- CIRC-US really ARE huh big bull?

 

[B_cigarbabe]

They only say that it may decrease the risk of getting aids/HIV, studies indicate that the risk of experiencing certain problems within the genital area increases by 20 times in someone who's been circumcised.



Ouch. As for the medical necessity of circumcision versus abortion, I do not even know why you used that as a metaphor, everyone but catholics know that abortion is a very effective way of staying in control of ones' body.

As a practicing Catholic I resent your ridiculous and absurd argument that "everyone but Catholics know that abortion is a very effective way of staying in control of ones body."

What kind of idiot would make use of such a metaphor?

I can think of very few Catholic women or women of other religions who would use abortion as a means of birth control and yes some of us do use birth control.:smileeek:
I am all for having an abortion if you deem it is right for you.
It is my body and I was glad I made the decision to have an abortion
when I did knowing that bringing a child into my world was not the
right choice for me at the time I was pregnant.
Thankfully I was able to still have it after my gyn misdiagnosed how far along I was.
He thought I was five weeks when I was indeed almost 4 1/2 months along but tiny.
quote:g32sj
Wait an see how the anti-circ nuts we have here try an weasel out of that one. to them its OK to kill a baby and or fetus.. or any other way they can think of to sugar coat that killing it is OK. with out the child's consent.

G32sj as far as I'm aware fetus's nor babies do not have the ability to talk
so it's not likely they would be saying "Oh please mama don't kill me"!


I am always amazed at the large amounts of ignorance on this site.
C.B.:saevil:

 

[BIGBULL29]

hot dam big bull i was just waiting on someone to bring that up. congratulations on this one. now let us Wait an see how the anti-circ nuts we have here try an weasel out of that one. to them its OK to kill a baby and or fetus.. or any other way they can think of to sugar coat that killing it is OK. with out the child's consent i maite add here.. but they don't see it this way concerning circumcision. just show how DUMB the IDIOT ANTI- CIRC-US really ARE huh big bull?

Thank you, g32js!

My point is not to show any personal opposition to abortion, but rather use it to highlight the irrationality in the thinking of many anti-circumcision supporters.

Irrational: A mother can decide if she doesn't want her fetus to live or not, but she does not have the right to have a bit of skin of her son's penis snitched off once he's born?

Please let me grow up before I make the decision if I want to live or not. LOL. :biggrin1:

 

[Supershaggy1822]

Yes we should definitely ban surgeries being performed by untrained tribal elders in unsanitary conditions. I'm going to start a bill in the state congress here in Massachusetts, I suggest you people do the same wherever you live.