Emasculated if with a guy

Joseph

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Now I suppose this might sound weird... I am embarrassed by the topic, but I feel like I should discuss it, or otherwise I will get crazy of it.

I am bisexual, but I get REALLY nervous about the idea of being in a long-term relationship with a guy. One gay friend tried to analyze why that's the case... and after thinking it through for a long time, I think the conclusion that I came to is.... pretty odd. There's only one scenario where this could play itself out.

Let's say we'd have a child (yeah to make it very equal let's pretend that the option featuring a woman also means that she's impotent and we have to adopt one), and things get rough and someone has to stop working and stay at home with the child.

If I picture myself with a woman in such a scenario, then I'm completely ok with that! This is the 21st century, I wanted a strong and independent woman, so yeah, this works.

But if I picture myself with a man, then I suddenly would feel very emasculated. I don't know what that says about me.... is it like... a woman can do anything, but I'll still feel that "I'm the man", but if I'm with a guy, I will feel nervous whenever or not I am "the man" in the relationship?

This is kind of weird. I mean I've been laughed out, mocked so many times that I technically just walk the streets thinking that every stranger just makes fun of me. And yet I somehow get wrapped up in this topic and cling onto preferring girls by any means possible, because with girls I don't seem to have problems, and I did have several crushes on girls, unlike guys. But my gay friend (he's got a boyfriend, so he's not trying to get with me) he points out how most of my porn collection features males and other things, which makes him question why I'm so against the idea of being with a guy. All of this just gets me uncomfortable. I don't know who I am and... I just figured I'd ask for some opinions here.

Thanks for reading!
 

Brisler

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Most of the porn you watch features men? You mean gay porn? Or with men and women?

Sounds to me like you're just mostly into girls. I don't really get what the problem is exactly? Is it that you feel ashamed and judgemental because you feel uncomfortable when you imagine yourself having a child with a another guy? There's nothing wrong with that feeling. I firmly believe in gay's rights to raise children and in their ability to be great parents, but in no lifetime would I want to be with a guy.

I guess my point is: don't over think things. You sound like a very reasonable guy, and you can't change the way you feel anyway. It doesn't mean that you are stuck up or a bad person by any means. Go with the flow, dude.
 
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likespineapple

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You're not weird for thinking this.

Straight guys don't want to be emasculated in much the same way, but as more and more women are building careers, men are going to have to deal with any insecurities they might have. It's the same thing whether you're gay, bisexual, or straight.

If that's your only problem with being with a guy, then that is just something you can work on.
 

Joseph

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Brisler:
I am a notorious overthinker. I just question what I prefer, if I possibly dismiss the possibility of a gay relationship for poor reasons. Regarding my porn, eh it's mostly pictures of males, and male on male, I have some girls on there of course (girls, girls with guys, girl on girl) , but there's less of them because most porn with girls that I find shows girls as "sluts", which is not at all the type of girl I'd want to fantasize about.


likespineapple:
This whole thing confuses me. Since I was a kid I was made fun of, and so I felt that I probably don't even care anymore what others think of me in terms of me being manly. But in terms of a long-term relationship and a future.. being with a guy just somehow makes me feel "wrong". I've had sexual experience with a friend and it didn't feel satisfying. I had other guys come onto me, but I couldn't return the feelings. I want to just shrug off that I'm mostly straight, but some people tell me that I might just have not met the right guy... and I really don't want to be some who dismisses the other possibility, especially not after the years I spend in confusion.
 
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likespineapple

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Then my advice to you would be not to dismiss the possibility.

If something doesn't feel right or satisfying to you, be honest with yourself and be honest with your partner. It doesn't matter if it's a girl or a guy. Be open to any opportunities with any gender but end things if it doesn't feel right to you. I'm sure it's not easy to figure this all out, but I don't really think you need to figure it all out right now. Just take note of how you feel with different people, let things happen, and communicate your feelings.

If you can't envision yourself in a long term relationship with a guy, can't return the feelings of the guys that have come onto you, and didn't have a satisfying relationship with a guy, then I'm not sure what to say to you.

You either don't like guys as much as you think, you're trying to fight your attraction to guys (but that's not what this sounds like), or you haven't found the right guy yet, as you said.
 

Brisler

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Then my advice to you would be not to dismiss the possibility.

If something doesn't feel right or satisfying to you, be honest with yourself and be honest with your partner. It doesn't matter if it's a girl or a guy. Be open to any opportunities with any gender but end things if it doesn't feel right to you. I'm sure it's not easy to figure this all out, but I don't really think you need to figure it all out right now. Just take note of how you feel with different people, let things happen, and communicate your feelings.

If you can't envision yourself in a long term relationship with a guy, can't return the feelings of the guys that have come onto you, and didn't have a satisfying relationship with a guy, then I'm not sure what to say to you.

You either don't like guys as much as you think, you're trying to fight your attraction to guys (but that's not what this sounds like), or you haven't found the right guy yet, as you said.

^^

I agree completely. Like I said, go with the flow. Don't fight your feelings - they aren't wrong. You don't have to exclude any possibilities beforehand.

You shouldn't let this issue eat you up from the inside. As it is right now, you are clearly more into girls. But that doesn't mean that you have to deny any contrasting part of your nature. Just go with what feels natural.

Have you ever been with a girl?
 

Joseph

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likespineapple:
Thank you... yeah, maybe the right guy just hasn't come my way

Brisler:
Thanks, and emmm to be honest I've never been out with anyone. I had 2 relationships with girls, but both were online/cellphone based. Some tell me that it doesn't count, but I didn't have anything better yet. Both fizzled out with time, the first because the girl demanded me to right away to tell her that I love her after being together for a month and I said that I don't feel ready yet... which she took as me saying that I don't love her. The second just said that we're not going to meet anytime soon, which makes the thing pretty aimless. However the second one... I keep being hopeful that once I would move close to her, it could work out... maybe. I admit before that would happen I'd rather clear up the things with my sexuality.

Speaking of the other border, I had a few guys come onto me, but they were usually very feminine guys, and the concept just didn't seem at all appealing to me. My best friend, with whom I had practiced some oral sex, he seemed like something, but the sex was kind of "mah" and even when I was with him in his place, I tried to tell myself that he's the best I'll find, I should just give up searching, and start something with him, but.......... maaah.

Come to think of it, the concept didn't even seem so SHOCKING and frightful to me. He's my friend, the best friend, I like him, we talk about anything, really nice guy. But as much as I'd like to be able to hug him each time we meet (we live very far away from one another and I don't have a lot of friends around), somehow going into a relationship with him just seems "mah". No burning passion, no strong emotions at all.
 

D_Cox_Ukker

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Power / control dynamic can be / is an issue in any couple (I guess?)

Even more so in a same sex couple imo; as far as male-male couple go, we have to deal with the stereotypes associated with the male gender, and reinvent them. There can be male - male rivalry, jealousy and competition, since boys are usually and still today raised with a positive reinforcement of those values.

I d recommend you to study gender theories, and check some books about the specific challenges of a male-male relationships.

Good news is, we get to make the rules yay! Poor straight couples have to first get rid of all the crap they be been fed with before finding their own pace, we start from scratch!

I m not saying it's easy, but it's important to know that it's a very common / normal problem for gay couples, or so I read.

If you are brave enough to be a stay at home dad in a gay relationship and be out to the world, then you are a pretty ballsy man in my book!

(Oh and also, you can research internalized homophobia)

Good luck!
 

Brisler

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likespineapple:
Thank you... yeah, maybe the right guy just hasn't come my way

Brisler:
Thanks, and emmm to be honest I've never been out with anyone. I had 2 relationships with girls, but both were online/cellphone based. Some tell me that it doesn't count, but I didn't have anything better yet. Both fizzled out with time, the first because the girl demanded me to right away to tell her that I love her after being together for a month and I said that I don't feel ready yet... which she took as me saying that I don't love her. The second just said that we're not going to meet anytime soon, which makes the thing pretty aimless. However the second one... I keep being hopeful that once I would move close to her, it could work out... maybe. I admit before that would happen I'd rather clear up the things with my sexuality.

Speaking of the other border, I had a few guys come onto me, but they were usually very feminine guys, and the concept just didn't seem at all appealing to me. My best friend, with whom I had practiced some oral sex, he seemed like something, but the sex was kind of "mah" and even when I was with him in his place, I tried to tell myself that he's the best I'll find, I should just give up searching, and start something with him, but.......... maaah.

Come to think of it, the concept didn't even seem so SHOCKING and frightful to me. He's my friend, the best friend, I like him, we talk about anything, really nice guy. But as much as I'd like to be able to hug him each time we meet (we live very far away from one another and I don't have a lot of friends around), somehow going into a relationship with him just seems "mah". No burning passion, no strong emotions at all.


Are you somehow afraid that it will be harder to find a girl to be with than it would be to find a guy?

To me, and I'm by no means an expert, this doesn't sound like a case of internalized homophobia. It doesn't sound like you are trying to supress homosexual desires, to me it seems more like the opposite. That you are keeping an open mind to a homosexual relationship because you eagerly want to find a person you can be with.

It seems to be most likely that this person will turn out to be a girl. But don't rule out the possibility that it could be a guy, just because you aren't in love with your best friend.

Sexuality, for straight and gay as well as bisexual people, is a fluid thing. I know you really want to come to terms with your own sexuality, but it can be a hard son of a bitch to get to know, especially for bisexuals, I would suspect. I don't think you will have much luck trying to force it either way, but I'm sure that at some point a person will occur in your life, that will make it much more tangible.

You have to do what feels natural. Don't try to force relationships or sexual acts with people if it doesn't feel right.

I'm sure it will all work out at some point, but I'm afraid you'll have to patient.

I wish you the best of luck, dude! You seem to be a nice, honest and intelligent guy - you will be rewarded!
 

D_Cox_Ukker

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To me, and I'm by no means an expert, this doesn't sound like a case of internalized homophobia. It doesn't sound like you are trying to supress homosexual desires

Not an expert either :) - "Internalized homophobia refers to negative stereotypes, beliefs, stigma, and prejudice about homosexuality and LGBT people that a person with same-sex attraction turns inward on themselves, whether or not they identify as LGBT" (wikipedia)

I mentionned that because that's not something I was familiar with when I started questioning my sexual orientation. Also, back to the OP concern, "I get REALLY nervous about the idea of being in a long-term relationship with a guy", there are many clichés about gay relationships (promiscuity, no commitment, who wears the pants etc...) that one could have internalized, assimilated and fear for oneself while at the same time being open to the concept of a gay relationship.
 

Phil Ayesho

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my situation is kinda odd, too.

For 30 years I had been the alpha male... supporting my woman, my children, pursuing a career... - in both 15 year relationships, it was the woman's decision to stay at home and be the 'home front' for the working partner ( me ) and in both 15 year relationships I had to deal with the gradual accumulation of my modern women's resentment over the fact that they Chose to be supported, and were jealous of my career, professional connections, and more varied daily life.

Now... the shoe is on the other foot. I am with a woman who supports me, financially, while I act as her home front supporter.

I was concerned about her losing attraction to me because of the emasculation of my not being the bread winner... but as it turned out, she prefers the dominant role... and is excited by emasculating me in a sexual sense.
She likes the idea of having a 'kept man'...

And because it thrills Her... and clearly makes her feel even more protective and supportive toward me ( the same way I, as a man, reacted to the prior women in my life supporting me emotionally while I supported them financially ) I find that my own bisexual tendencies have become a huge benefit... in that I discovered I am as perfectly happy being the 'sub' as I was being the 'dom'.

At this age... I have already proven to myself that I CAN provide. That I have the capacity to support others and myself... so the financial disparity is not really an issue.

And I have come to love being her bitch.

And the odd thing is that, 3 years into this, I don't feel emasculated at all. She is a woman, and makes me feel like a man, even when she is pegging me...

I guess the lesson is that you can't BE emasculated if you don't anchor your manhood in the expectations of others.
And the great thing about embracing your own bisexuality is not so much that it means you can play both with she's And He's...

Its that no matter what gender you ultimately commit to... you have much more fluidity in terms of the roles you can play in the relationship and still find yourself perfectly happy.
 

Brisler

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Not an expert either :) - "Internalized homophobia refers to negative stereotypes, beliefs, stigma, and prejudice about homosexuality and LGBT people that a person with same-sex attraction turns inward on themselves, whether or not they identify as LGBT" (wikipedia)

I mentionned that because that's not something I was familiar with when I started questioning my sexual orientation. Also, back to the OP concern, "I get REALLY nervous about the idea of being in a long-term relationship with a guy", there are many clichés about gay relationships (promiscuity, no commitment, who wears the pants etc...) that one could have internalized, assimilated and fear for oneself while at the same time being open to the concept of a gay relationship.

Sure, it might be an issue, so it's great that you bring it up. I know what internalized homophobia is, but being straight, I don't have any first hand experience with it, so your observations are of much more value than mine.
 

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And for the record gender has nothing to do with what role you play in the couple, amarite ?

The sub / dom split does not match the male / female split, and imo there is no male role and female role, beside the one that society / media sometimes try to shove down our throat. Pink baby dolls for girls and yellow truck for boys, that is really only a social construct, which we can choose to stick to, or not. Either way is fine but I think it's important to acknowledge that, genders are a social construct and sexual orientation has nothign to do with which gender role you choose to play.

I know I m going off topic, sorry. Or am I not ?
 

Phil Ayesho

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And for the record gender has nothing to do with what role you play in the couple, amarite ?

The sub / dom split does not match the male / female split, and imo there is no male role and female role, beside the one that society / media sometimes try to shove down our throat. Pink baby dolls for girls and yellow truck for boys, that is really only a social construct, which we can choose to stick to, or not. Either way is fine but I think it's important to acknowledge that, genders are a social construct and sexual orientation has nothign to do with which gender role you choose to play.

I know I m going off topic, sorry. Or am I not ?

I agree partially... however, in practical fact, notions that boys and girls interests and responses to environment are entirely cultural has been completely disproven.

Girls and Boys brains ARE wired differently on a developmental level and these differences Do manifest in particular affinities.

In truth... the argument that people are Born with specific sexual orientations refutes the notion that gender roles are learned... it is the concept that gender roles are at least predominantly inborn.

I do believe that a lot of individual sexuality Can be the result of conditioning.
My own bisexuality was something I may have been born with a certain Potential for... but it was made manifest by very early homosexual experiences.

Had I had other formative experiences in that crucial period around puberty, I might have had an entirely different response.
 

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In truth... the argument that people are Born with specific sexual orientations refutes the notion that gender roles are learned... it is the concept that gender roles are at least predominantly inborn

When I read that I understand that you are associating gender roles and sexual orientation, which in my opinion are 2 totally different things. I might have misunderstood your post.

Sexual orientation : attracted to male or female (or neither), I think it is now agreed that sexual orientation results from both genetics and environment.

Gender role : a behaviour we believe is socially acceptable / expected in connection with the gender we identify with.

Ex 1 : I m straight, and I stick to the gender role genererally associated with male (don't show emotions, competitive etc..)
Ex 2 : I am gay and I do the same thing
Ex 3 : I am gay (and not transgender), I exhibits traits usually more associated with the female gender (empathy, caring, not scared of displaying emotions etc...)
Ex. 4 : Straight and exhibits traits associated with female gender

And so on and so forth. All I am saying is sexual orientation and gender identity are, in my opinon (and I may be wring, I don't have data on hand to support that), two very different concepts. Mixing them up could make is a good way to confusion.

Now none of the above mentionned examples is good or bad, but I think it can be useful for people who are a little confused with their sexual orientation to also have a reflexion on gender. Which is another topic, but a related topic.

Totally hijacking the OP post, sorry again.
 
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Great comments. Everything I can find indicates that an individual is born with his/her sexual orientation. At that point personal experiences (positive and negative) together with cultural conditioning can result in a very complex set of mental positions. It can really get complicated if you start isolating unique thing about yourself and fixating on them (as the OP admits he does at times).

Give this process a try. Start asking yourself “who am I”. Don’t answer with descriptors like cool or sexy, but focus on the roles you play.

After you have wrestled with this for a while and group your thoughts, you will likely find that you play about 8-10 primary roles in your life. Be aware they can change.

1. Member of a family (brother, father sister mother, husband, wife.)
2. Sexual being (hereto, homo, in-between)
3. Member of a community (participant in community standards)
4. Member of commerce (producer, consumer)
5. Member of ecology (dependent and independent organism)
6. Member of body politic (leader follower)
7. Member of avocation interest (bike riding)
8. Member of vocation (teacher, artist, builder)
9. Member of spiritual persuasion
10. Unique being

Here is the take away with this exercise. You may be born with a significant homo sexual orientation (for example), but that doesn’t mean all your likes and dislikes must line up with that one variable. There are 9 other big areas of your live where you may enjoy participating as “straight” “gay” or whatever works for you. Just remember you are the unique being and your challenge is to make the roles you play fit you. Don’t let any role capture (define) you . The best solution is when you can line all your roles up so they benefit each other along with you.
 

Phil Ayesho

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When I read that I understand that you are associating gender roles and sexual orientation, which in my opinion are 2 totally different things. I might have misunderstood your post.

Sexual orientation : attracted to male or female (or neither), I think it is now agreed that sexual orientation results from both genetics and environment.

Gender role : a behaviour we believe is socially acceptable / expected in connection with the gender we identify with.

Ex 1 : I m straight, and I stick to the gender role genererally associated with male (don't show emotions, competitive etc..)
Ex 2 : I am gay and I do the same thing
Ex 3 : I am gay (and not transgender), I exhibits traits usually more associated with the female gender (empathy, caring, not scared of displaying emotions etc...)
Ex. 4 : Straight and exhibits traits associated with female gender

And so on and so forth. All I am saying is sexual orientation and gender identity are, in my opinon (and I may be wring, I don't have data on hand to support that), two very different concepts. Mixing them up could make is a good way to confusion.

Now none of the above mentionned examples is good or bad, but I think it can be useful for people who are a little confused with their sexual orientation to also have a reflexion on gender. Which is another topic, but a related topic.

Totally hijacking the OP post, sorry again.

Neither gender nor sexual orientation are cultural.

they can be influenced somewhat... but experiments show that infants show a marked preference for certain categories of things from the moment they can perceive and manipulate them. i.e. before they could have been taught anything about gender.

Not all little girl prefer dolls over trucks... but most do. Some show a preference for male normative associations from the start.
And vice versa for male infants.


But, for example... the evidence shows that the vast majority of Male human beings are Born more or less bisexual ( as in ranging from barely interested in the same sex to preferably interested in the same sex )

These individuals can be socialized by early experience to reject or react against this inborn tendency ( homophobia ) or they can be socialized to be more aware of, or even accepting of this tendency... or they might even find themselves embracing this tendency, given their early experience and their own sense of self awareness and exposure to tolerance. ( e.g. a male child raised in a liberal household with accepting attitudes toward non-normative orientations is more likely to recognize their own bisexual tendencies and more likely to think nothing negative about them... regardless of whether they ever act on them )

My own early experience probably "made" me more 'gay' than I would likely have turned out in the absence of any exposure to homosexuality. I might easily have ended up someone who Had those curiosities, but was uncomfortable with them because of the era in which I was raised... as it is, I ended up comfortable with them... but understanding fully that my heterosexual response is the dominant and more emotionally satisfying.

I'm just saying that there is a cultural component... but that both Gender identity and sexual orientation are culturally fluid only within a certain developmentally defined range for each person.
 

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And for the record gender has nothing to do with what role you play in the couple, amarite ?

The sub / dom split does not match the male / female split, and imo there is no male role and female role, beside the one that society / media sometimes try to shove down our throat. Pink baby dolls for girls and yellow truck for boys, that is really only a social construct, which we can choose to stick to, or not. Either way is fine but I think it's important to acknowledge that, genders are a social construct and sexual orientation has nothign to do with which gender role you choose to play.

I know I m going off topic, sorry. Or am I not ?

I completely agree with this. I have met several couples where the wife is obviously more dominant. My current boss confided to me only recently that when she becomes pregnant, her husband is going to stay home and raise the child. They are a really cute couple and she admittedly wears the pants.
 

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My hetero marriage had troubles, because deep-down, I knew I was gay. That being said, our relationship was balanced in many ways.

After I left and began exploring my gay side, I wondered about emasculation, dominance, control, things I'd never though about before. Lots of it had to do with fucking. But then I had a very macho boyfriend for a couple of years, a powerful top who fucked hard. As mainly his bottom, I began to feel MORE strong, MORE in control. Very satisfying, sexually and emotionally.

Topping for me is great fun, especially with a big dick. But getting fucked has made me more true, stronger, and even more masculine.