Embarassed Yank

[Drifterwood]

Am glad Farage was brought up in this thread because I wanted to ask how he is perceived. Can you elaborate, since thus far we have just extremes of approval and disapproval. This is the only non-US politico I have ever seen who struck me as equal in vileness to the worst of our worst. Am proud of my three fellow Virginians, the Gregory Brothers, who took down that piece of shit on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpYIKF1wuyE

The London Times Leader recently called him out along the lines of being the unacceptable face of British Politics.

I think he is an awful little man and his rudeness in Europe made me squirm with embarassment.

From the Times: - "UKIP’s publicity-craving, perma-blazered Nigel Farage — is the sort of man to whom people take an instant dislike, because it saves time; a man so lacking in charisma that he manages to give cravats an even worse name than they already have."

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

The London Times Leader recently called him out along the lines of being the unacceptable face of British Politics.

I think he is an awful little man and his rudeness in Europe made me squirm with embarassment.

From the Times: - "UKIP’s publicity-craving, perma-blazered Nigel Farage — is the sort of man to whom people take an instant dislike, because it saves time; a man so lacking in charisma that he manages to give cravats an even worse name than they already have."

Say what you want, but he is an amazing Public speaker. He came to my college and did a talk and i was mesmerised. I disagreed with everything but i had a period of hanging on his word.

Im not sure whether he was actually as good as i remembered or what, but he was actually impressive. Far more impressive than Brown,clegg or Cameron

 

[Drifterwood]

Say what you want, but he is an amazing Public speaker.

So was Hitler.

 

[D_Andreas Sukov]

So was Hitler.

i know, and it was hearing him that i finally understood how powerful a great orator can be.

 

[helgaleena]

Which party listens to heavy metal music? I'll take them. :tongue:

Same question to the Canucks and Aussies...

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

The London Times Leader recently called him out along the lines of being the unacceptable face of British Politics.

I think he is an awful little man and his rudeness in Europe made me squirm with embarassment.

From the Times: - "UKIP’s publicity-craving, perma-blazered Nigel Farage — is the sort of man to whom people take an instant dislike, because it saves time; a man so lacking in charisma that he manages to give cravats an even worse name than they already have."

I cringed so much I thought I would have a hernia when he gave that maiden speech to the EU parliament, and when he and his fellow goons were making all that fuss about supporting Ireland for voting no to Lisbon the first time I'm sure it drove thousands of Irish voters to a yes vote the second time round. They couldn't even begin to understand the gulf between why they hate the EU and why Irish voters weren't happy about the Lisbon treaty.

The man's an embarrassment.

 

[Drifterwood]

The man's an embarrassment.

Let's not mention the odious little shit again.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Let's not mention the odious little shit again.

Jolly good :wink:

 

[798686]

The London Times Leader recently called him out along the lines of being the unacceptable face of British Politics.

I think he is an awful little man and his rudeness in Europe made me squirm with embarassment.

I agree - and he's completely unhelful to eurosceptics. He can't seem to distinguish between what is and isnt a valid point and makes a fuss regardless, thereby giving eurosceptics a bad name.

 

[alx]

Am glad Farage was brought up in this thread because I wanted to ask how he is perceived. Can you elaborate, since thus far we have just extremes of approval and disapproval. This is the only non-US politico I have ever seen who struck me as equal in vileness to the worst of our worst. Am proud of my three fellow Virginians, the Gregory Brothers, who took down that piece of shit on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpYIKF1wuyE

Sorry you are basing this on a spoof youtube clip? Maybe you should watch the actual Official recording.
This party is the only moral party that has common sense in the UK.

Of course he is going to be unpopular to the majority as he is speaking out against the EU ideology.
I did not find his remarks offensive, in fact they were very accurate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqovTGjYjM4

This was the outcome of his remarks;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyoxr8GrHyY

Sorry but this was free speech, This is a basic fundamental of the EU constitution. This is contradicting their very own constitution.
Giving him the maximum fine of 3000euros.

Nigel Farage gave up his very successful very highly paid job so that he could Fight for our democracy, and that of the whole of europe.
This man is due alot of respect.

The London Times Leader recently called him out along the lines of being the unacceptable face of British Politics.

I think he is an awful little man and his rudeness in Europe made me squirm with embarassment.

From the Times: - "UKIP’s publicity-craving, perma-blazered Nigel Farage — is the sort of man to whom people take an instant dislike, because it saves time; a man so lacking in charisma that he manages to give cravats an even worse name than they already have."

Yet the Telegraph praise him, He needs to be direct, he needs to criticise the EU. If politics is to work then Criticising is a fundamental principle, with out these questions they would never get answered.

Say what you want, but he is an amazing Public speaker. He came to my college and did a talk and i was mesmerised. I disagreed with everything but i had a period of hanging on his word.

Im not sure whether he was actually as good as i remembered or what, but he was actually impressive. Far more impressive than Brown,clegg or Cameron

Yes, he is the most amazing public speaker I have ever heard, he gets his point across and is straight to the point.
He allows others to have their say, without interuption.
Then he will anwser with the most detailed to the point response. Unlike most uk politician that quickly divert and speak about something totally off topic.
This is why he is never given the chance to debate in 'important' public broadcasts.

I cringed so much I thought I would have a hernia when he gave that maiden speech to the EU parliament, and when he and his fellow goons were making all that fuss about supporting Ireland for voting no to Lisbon the first time I'm sure it drove thousands of Irish voters to a yes vote the second time round. They couldn't even begin to understand the gulf between why they hate the EU and why Irish voters weren't happy about the Lisbon treaty.

The man's an embarrassment.

Ok let me get this right, Ireland was give a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. To which they democratically voted 'NO'.

The EU does NOT accept this 'NO' vote, so put major political pressure on the Irish Government and a re-referendum was pushed, leading to a 'YES' vote.

Did you know that there is a clause that states that any of the first 51 articles can be changed at anytime, without even voting. they can simply change a signed agreement and cannot be stopped from doing so.

Do you really think that a democratic state would allow such a clause that would undermine the funamentals of democracy.

Let's not mention the odious little shit again.

Sorry but I think that comment was un-called for. Farage has given up so much to try to restore the freedom of Europe and the UK. He even almost died last week when his plane crashed campaigining.


People open your eyes, please.

 

[helgaleena]

What sort of music does he listen to?

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Ok let me get this right, Ireland was give a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. To which they democratically voted 'NO'.

The EU does NOT accept this 'NO' vote, so put major political pressure on the Irish Government and a re-referendum was pushed, leading to a 'YES' vote.

Did you know that there is a clause that states that any of the first 51 articles can be changed at anytime, without even voting. they can simply change a signed agreement and cannot be stopped from doing so.

Do you really think that a democratic state would allow such a clause that would undermine the funamentals of democracy.

Are you aware of the reasons why the Irish electorate voted no? Are you aware for instance that a wealthy British businessman with Irish connections undertook a massive disinformation campaign about the Lisbon Treaty claiming a large variety of spurious horrors which would befall Ireland should it have voted yes?

Are you aware that Ireland negotiated a variety of exceptions and special clarifications of the Lisbon treaty after the no vote which were then presented to the people of Ireland who then democratically voted yes to the Lisbon treaty, their concerns having been addressed? Are you also aware of the inherent logic in your argument which claims that only the first referendum's no vote was democratic and the second following yes vote was somehow undemocratic? If the second vote was undemocratic in your estimation then I assure you the first was equally so since there was no discernible difference in the level of gravity which the Irish electorate was aware of in both cases


Your point about this phantom clause is frankly nonsense? Who are you suggesting is able to legally vitiate the entire Lisbon treaty? Member states? If so what is your quarrel with such a clause?


Were you aware that UKIP's ill informed position on the Irish no vote was highly unwelcome and an embarrassment to the Irish people?

 

[D_Harvey Schmeckel]

Sorry you are basing this on a spoof youtube clip?

I was so astonished by his words and so disbelieving of what I had seen and heard that I quickly confirmed it by doing as you suggest:

Maybe you should watch the actual Official recording.

from which I did not conclude that:

This party is the only moral party that has common sense in the UK.

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

In Australia we have a federation of states like the US, but with the British Westminster system of government.

Muchos gracias. I know Howard, who was in power forever, was a Liberal-Nationalist fellow, and Rudd is Labor, but how does that play out in your Parliament?

As and aside, what do Aussies think about the growing inter relationship with China, and the trial of the 4 in the Rio Tinto case?

You are so very lucky you don't have to deal with the far religious right in politics there. The moralizing and hypocrisy are off the wall.

 

[arthurdent]

UKIP are a shower. The rub is that their one serious policy - the UK to leave the EU - is one which would probably be supported by a majority of the people of the UK if it got to a referendum.

Didn't we already have a referendum on this in the mid 1970s and we voted to join the EU (or EEC as it was then)?

 

[D_Tully Tunnelrat]

Let's not mention the odious little shit again.

Glad to know we are not the only ones with lunatics running the asylum. It's not helpful, but it is sort of comforting.

 

[dandelion]

Say what you want, but he is an amazing Public speaker. He came to my college and did a talk and i was mesmerised. I disagreed with everything but i had a period of hanging on his word.

Im not sure whether he was actually as good as i remembered or what, but he was actually impressive. Far more impressive than Brown,clegg or Cameron

I havnt seen him in person, only on the telly. First off, Im pro Eu. Very pro EU by british standards. But i rather like Farage. I saw him being interviewed after the Irish no vote and he had some very pithy things to say about Eu treaties being steamrollered through without the consent of the people. I entirely agreed. I really hate politicians who refuse to answer an argument but instead attack the man, and just about every party has been systematically ridiculing UKIP and the other one, BNP. The conservatives do so because UKIP and BNP supporters would be natural conservatives were it not for the existence of these other parties. Others attacked the man because the points he was making were unanswerable. The Lisbon treaty was forced through against the wishes of the european populations. Ireland is generally pro-EU, but it was defeated and they had to play good cop/bad cop to get them to agree. France refused it at a referendum, so the French government changed the law to avoid having a referendum. Cameron refused to support the idea of having a referendum in the UK until it was too late.(at which point he jumped on the band waggon)

I approve of the EU. I do not approve of forcing through new treaties which people do not agree with. I think it can only work by the consent of those who are part of it.

So anyway, when I have seen him in action he has addressed the isues, whereas typically other politicians around him spent their time attacking him and not answering. A sure sign he was right and they wrong.

Id have to say he is rather like Winston Churchill in his determination to achieve a goal and an inclination to break conventions to do it. Refreshing compared to most of the look alike politicians we see. Churchill also thought we should not be part of the EU. They would probably have got on.

Also, I see little prospect of it, but parliament would be a better place were he in it. We could do with a BNP and a few more Greens too. These people exist with parties supporting them bcause fundamentally the have a point which the big parties find it easier to pretend does not exist. Having them hanging about the place might encourage them to do something.

Incidentall, while were talking about who should be in parliament, although religion is not an issue in british politics, Church of England Bishops have seats ex-officio in the house of Lords. Cant remember if they still have voting rights. Anyone?

 

[Jason]

Didn't we already have a referendum on this in the mid 1970s and we voted to join the EU (or EEC as it was then)?

A referendum, but not on what we now have. We voted to join a free-trade group of nine countries. By a series of steps, all individually quite small, we have created something which is little short of a nation state. There is enormous popular unease at this. We need a referendum on continued EU membership.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Sorry Dandelion, but this -

Ireland is generally pro-EU, but it was defeated and they had to play good cop/bad cop to get them to agree.

isn't a true reflection of the situation, and I have to say that though critics of the EU and EU supporters with concerns about the current structure of the EU may well dislike the fact that Ireland voted yes in the end it has to be said that Irish people aren't idiots and nor are they children who can be bullied into voting for things they do not want. The first No vote sort of proves that. The leverage Ireland then had over the EU was enough to wring concessions and other agreements from it to make the Lisbon treaty palatable to the Irish electorate.

 

[alx]

Are you aware of the reasons why the Irish electorate voted no? Are you aware for instance that a wealthy British businessman with Irish connections undertook a massive disinformation campaign about the Lisbon Treaty claiming a large variety of spurious horrors which would befall Ireland should it have voted yes?

Are you aware that Ireland negotiated a variety of exceptions and special clarifications of the Lisbon treaty after the no vote which were then presented to the people of Ireland who then democratically voted yes to the Lisbon treaty, their concerns having been addressed? Are you also aware of the inherent logic in your argument which claims that only the first referendum's no vote was democratic and the second following yes vote was somehow undemocratic? If the second vote was undemocratic in your estimation then I assure you the first was equally so since there was no discernible difference in the level of gravity which the Irish electorate was aware of in both cases


Your point about this phantom clause is frankly nonsense? Who are you suggesting is able to legally vitiate the entire Lisbon treaty? Member states? If so what is your quarrel with such a clause?


Were you aware that UKIP's ill informed position on the Irish no vote was highly unwelcome and an embarrassment to the Irish people?

Article 48: of the Lisbon treaty states that ‘with just intergovernmental agreement, with no need of going back to the citizens anywhere, they can make any change to this constitutional document, adding any new powers, without having to revisit an electorate anywhere.’ Thus the public and the people of Ireland, or anywhere else in Europe will never again need to embarrass ourselves by voting incorrectly. The only people required, or able, to vote to change the treaties are the unelected European council.

The above is my problem!

Obvioulsy, You are Irish so would have a better understanding naturally. However me overlooking the whole situation it was apparent that this was not strictly democratic.

The first referendum Ireland voted 'NO', whats the need to push it any further?

Anyhow, up comes the second referendum, this time the Eu gave the Irish government and extra hand;

The 'Yes' camp had a spending budget ten times that of the 'no' camp, Funded by the EU.

The EU spent over £300k on infomation packs which was funded by the tax payers, I dont think its morally right to spend my taxes on their political campaign.

The fact the broadcasting commission of Ireland, in just this one referendum that there was no need to give equal airtime to both sides, which let to 70 percent of airtime taken by the 'yes' camp.
Which is breaking the law on broadcasting standards.

Sorry you are basing this on a spoof youtube clip?

I was so astonished by his words and so disbelieving of what I had seen and heard that I quickly confirmed it by doing as you suggest:

Maybe you should watch the actual Official recording.

from which I did not conclude that:

This party is the only moral party that has common sense in the UK.

And your reasons for this? Genuinely Interested.

I havnt seen him in person, only on the telly. First off, Im pro Eu. Very pro EU by british standards. But i rather like Farage. I saw him being interviewed after the Irish no vote and he had some very pithy things to say about Eu treaties being steamrollered through without the consent of the people. I entirely agreed. I really hate politicians who refuse to answer an argument but instead attack the man, and just about every party has been systematically ridiculing UKIP and the other one, BNP. The conservatives do so because UKIP and BNP supporters would be natural conservatives were it not for the existence of these other parties. Others attacked the man because the points he was making were unanswerable. The Lisbon treaty was forced through against the wishes of the european populations. Ireland is generally pro-EU, but it was defeated and they had to play good cop/bad cop to get them to agree. France refused it at a referendum, so the French government changed the law to avoid having a referendum. Cameron refused to support the idea of having a referendum in the UK until it was too late.(at which point he jumped on the band waggon)

I approve of the EU. I do not approve of forcing through new treaties which people do not agree with. I think it can only work by the consent of those who are part of it.

So anyway, when I have seen him in action he has addressed the isues, whereas typically other politicians around him spent their time attacking him and not answering. A sure sign he was right and they wrong.

Id have to say he is rather like Winston Churchill in his determination to achieve a goal and an inclination to break conventions to do it. Refreshing compared to most of the look alike politicians we see. Churchill also thought we should not be part of the EU. They would probably have got on.

Also, I see little prospect of it, but parliament would be a better place were he in it. We could do with a BNP and a few more Greens too. These people exist with parties supporting them bcause fundamentally the have a point which the big parties find it easier to pretend does not exist. Having them hanging about the place might encourage them to do something.

Incidentall, while were talking about who should be in parliament, although religion is not an issue in british politics, Church of England Bishops have seats ex-officio in the house of Lords. Cant remember if they still have voting rights. Anyone?

Whilst your pro EU, its great to see that you respect another persons point of view, actually listen and take on board things that maybe are not in-line with your own view regarding the whole EU issue.

It shows that there are people that are not ignorant, and are actually switched on. Able to make a proper decision on where they stand politically.

A referendum, but not on what we now have. We voted to join a free-trade group of nine countries. By a series of steps, all individually quite small, we have created something which is little short of a nation state. There is enormous popular unease at this. We need a referendum on continued EU membership.

agree.