"Emotionally straight" but sexually gay?

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by headbang8, Jul 19, 2004.

  1. headbang8

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    Recently, several younger members posted questions about sexual orientation. The same question seems to recur, again and again.

    Though only in their late teens, these young men show enough wisdom to know that they are, for the most part, gay. Their erotic thoughts give little room to deny it; men turn them on in a way that women don’t.

    Congratulations, guys. You’re a long way ahead of where many of us found ourselves at your age.

    But the men who flood the imagination when in the throes of orgasm, seldom make it into dreams they hold for day-to-day life.

    They don’t “feel gay”. Mainstream gay culture leaves them non-plussed, or even alienated. They relate “emotionally” better to women, and maybe even enjoy straight sex. They see themselves with a house in the suburbs and a gaggle of smiling kids. A recipe in which ingredient number one is a woman.

    These young men wonder if they can still have their cake and eat it. Might they be (or become) bisexual? Can one get sexual release in one place, and emotional fulfillment in another? Must they keep their desires out of the way of their dreams?

    Our advice has covered a broad spectrum—as it should. Some of us tried that formula. Many of us agreed that both emotions and sexuality are fluid; it ought to be possible for a (fundamentally) same-sex oriented man to have a life that involves meaningful, mutual commitment with a woman.

    I understand that the new biopic of Cole Porter and wife Linda Lee shows their relationship thus. In Porter’s words, a swellegant, elegant couple seen together at all the right places—a perfect social, intellectual and emotional match. It’s just that when it really came time to get his rocks off, Cole grabbed pal Monty Woolley and shot uptown to the male brothels of Harlem. A happy ending…or not?

    In any case, the Porters’ life of childless privilege teaches few lessons to those whose dreams demand a daily grind of mortgage, car pool and baby puke.

    That dream takes work. It assumes that two adults, whose lives are totally consumed by all this stuff, meet each other’s emotional needs naturally and unselfconsciously. Thus each has enough resources on tap to meet the emotional needs of the children—which don’t let up, 24/7.

    (As an aside, I am told that even in privileged homes where the practical chores of child-rearing are made easier, single parents struggle most with the need for their own emotional support, in order to have enough inner strength for their children.)

    Young men, ask yourself this. Can you really meet her emotional needs without sexual passion in your soul? Can you really make her feel desired and secure enough to free her heart for the children? Can she meet your emotional needs in the same way?

    I was re-reading Portnoy’s Complaint , and a passage struck a chord—that’s one reason to post on this subject again. The hero, crusading middle-aged lawyer Alexander Portnoy, is sexually obsessed with his girlfriend, a gorgeous blonde underwear model. But he cannot allow himself to love her truly, since his parents made it clear that he should marry a nice Jewish girl, and he bought their line. He even calls her “Monkey” because her real name, Mary, reminds him she’s a shikse .

    Roth has Portnoy read Freud, who maintains that for love to be healthy, two “currents of feeling” should be united; “the tender, affectionate feelings and the sensual feelings.” Where the two flow together, there is passion. Where not, we find—in Freud’s words—the “most prevalent form of degradation in erotic life.”

    Personally, I feel it degrades your non-erotic affection, too, if you cannot abandon yourself completely to your most significant other.

    So again, here’s my advice to the Cales and the qwertyu's of this world, to name but two. Don’t settle for degraded love. Be prepared to enjoy the affection of other men, as well as their bodies. You might just find erotic and emotional joy in the same place. Open your hearts first, and thereafter work out how you’ll build your dream…a dream you both share, hopefully.

    You just might find yourself dreaming a little differently. OK, you won't live the pipe-and-slippers fantasy of a wife, 2.3 kids and membership in the country club. But hey, fate sometimes throws us a curve-ball and you deal, right? You make the best of it, and the best might just be better than the hoary old sitcom ideal to which our imagination often defaults. Better, because it’s real .

    Dan Savage recently published a book called The Kid , a loving but ruthlessly unsentimental account of how he and his boyfriend Terry adopted a son. Recommended reading, even though his cynical realism about affairs of the heart may shock those amongst us who haven’t been around the block a few times ourselves. Savage is, after all, a columnist who gives out sex advice.

    The American poet Galway Kinnell wrote that when you’re young, your wife or husband is the one who gives you the most sexual excitement . After thirty years or so, your wife or husband is the one who helps you find your glasses.

    When you put on your glasses, whom do you want to see? A woman of comforting familiarity, whom you regard with great affection and respect, or the man you love?

    I think you young men, in your heart of hearts, know the answer.
     
  2. 14x8thck

    14x8thck Member

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    What a great topic this is> I am very greatful that I knew all my life that I was gay. From13-20 I did both but my heart was inly in one. My parents were outsanding and were supportive :) GREATFUL.
    It is a differnt world now and being gay does not have the stigma it had then. Most kids grow up now with a gay parent,knowing someone in school who is and the media is all over it.Not taboo anymore!
    My brother who came out five years ago was an unhappy person, I knew why and we never ever talked about it. He has changed and is very happy. I have a nephew who is seven yrs old and it is no big deak. Two homes, lots of big brothers and a father who is a much nicer person.
    I nver thout a thing about walking into a resteraunt with m other half never not on ant date. I never cared.
    I am so glad that it is a much healthier worl in part. B)
     
  3. D_Martin van Burden

    D_Martin van Burden Account Disabled

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    Let's be frank about this. There comes a day -- and usually it hits during middle age, but let's be fair and call it open game for any age -- when people look at sexuality and think that the dick and the vagina and the body are the no longer end-all, be-all for some deeper emotional need.

    When reading and re-reading the first post, I got the impression that this same-sex sexual interest is a bit of nagging frustration. Is that not right? For example, I like women and I like women more "totally" than I do men. I can look at a guy and find him physically attractive. Hell, I can get a hardon off of a guy and I have before -- they do give better head. So, on first impression (and I'm hoping I'm wrong), it seems that the moment I acknowledge that a guy can get my dick hard, somehow, I've erred in trying to reconcile these amorous feelings between men and women, however they differ.

    Rather than reconcile, it seems like I've got to make a choice in the matter... which is an argument I've heard tons of times before, only to be clued into the hopeless conclusion that I've got to pick. Is there to be no true happiness in acknowledging that there's different things to like, and when it comes down to it, that it's not just a gender thing.

    Headbang, love, I think, is never, ever, ever that simple. And while I think you've got a good point, I think you're speaking more to those guys (and gals) who just want to surpress those feelings, hoping that they go away.

    Yeah, that's a doozy.

    It's even worse when you presuppose that these conflictual undercurrents are really just indications of how someone is "supposed" to turn out. If I had been dating women all my life and got that single stirring in my pants when a reasonably buff, All-American boy type walked by, then that one hardon somehow becomes this should-be script I should lead. Fuck that heterosexuality. My dick told on me...

    Let me put it to you like this. Supposing that we don't want to throw thousands into Enzyte or Viagra or other supplements, and acknowledging that I'm not going to be as "studly" as I am now when I turn 70, who do I want to wake up to that morning? Who do I want to fuss at on some days, yell at on others, and go out for that occasional trip to the countryside?

    Could be a woman.
    Could be a man, too. Can't say for sure.

    I'd even throw a few bucks in the pot to bet that no one really knows, if you honestly take a minute to think about it.

    Companionship -- you know, once you strip away all those excuses about what turns you on, what gets your dick hard or your clit pulsin', what looks good and what we think looks good that's compatible with popular images -- can be found in any number of people on any number of counts. If someone makes me feel really good when I wake up in the morning, why, I wouldn't kick 'em out of bed.
     
  4. headbang8

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    A young traveller was backpacking through the Greek islands when he stumbled upon a postcard-perfect village. In the cafe on the waterfront, he saw an old man in the corner drinking retsina, quietly getting hammered. This puzzled him.

    The traveller took a seat at the old man's table. "Excuse me sir, if you don't mind me asking, how can you be so miserable on a beautiful day like this, in this fine cafe, looking out over this enchanting harbour?"

    "That's the point," the old man scowled, "Look at the harbour. See all the boats? I built every one of them! But do you think they call me George the ship-builder?"

    "Don't they?" asked the traveller.

    "No! And you see this village? I built every house in the village, too. But do you think they call me George the Carpenter? No!"

    The traveller pressed his question. "Is that a reason to sit here getting drunk on wine?"

    "...and the wine!" fumed the old man, " I have a vineyard on the hill, and make every drop of wine this village drinks, but do they call me George the winemaker?"

    "And your point is...?"

    "My point is...you suck just ONE cock..."

    * * * * *

    You know, Dee, I think we're saying the same thing. My point to these young guys (and you're right, I am talking to those who seem to want to repress those feelings) is that you should be open minded and allow yourself to find love wherever it presents itself. And not just seek it in the conventional places you've been taught.

    Your dick and your heart don't live on different planets. True passion stirs both in equal measure. These guys shouldn't close their minds to passion, simply because it's socially stigmatised, or because their personal formula for passion differs from what, parents, teachers, the clergy, The Brady Bunch or Leave It to Beaver lead them to expect.

    You're right....let your heart go where it will. Let your choice of "lifestyle" follow your heart, not lead it.

    You're a wise man, Dee. Love ya.

    hb8

    P.S. And you are so right about men giving better head. But try telling that to a chick...
     
  5. hungthick

    hungthick New Member

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    okay, i erased about 10 comments i wanted to make on this thread but i have decided that i dont know what i want to say.

    i am told that i act straight but i like men sexually (sometimes).
    :blink:
     
  6. Bradleem

    Bradleem New Member

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    Gore Vidal has been reputed to have said that there "is no such thing as Gay, Bi, or Straight" people..............just "Gay and Straight Acts" of sex.....to paraphrase him.....................whatever one believes and whatever culture one has grown up in, it is very difficult for one to go against the culture in which one was reared. In some respects today's young adults have been given the freedom to be able to choose whether they will express their sexuality completely, partially, or not at all, without repercussions from the larger society. Whether they actually express themselves totally during their lifespan will depend upon how they view the culture in which they were reared..................those influences are forever!!!! Being oneself is oftentimes the toughest thing to achieve in one's life.
     
  7. jonb

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    I think "mainstream gay culture", whatver THAT is, leaves a lot of gay men nonplussed. What I do know, though, is that in a lot of the Islamic world, though the men only have sex with women, their strongest emotional attachments are to other men.

    My own opinion? I wouldn't say male partners xor female partners. I would say a particular male partner xor a particular female partner, or if they're open-minded. . . . ;)
     
  8. madame_zora

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    My only insight of value here is that (as a person who was in a marriage to a man who was not wholly hetero and not honest about it up front) you owe it to yourself and any prospective partner you take in life to be honest about your feelings. It is cruel to let someone believe you are hetero only if that is simply not the case. The impact this has on a woman who finds out later is devastating and unfair. I think I would have married my husband anyway if I had known about him prior to our marriage, but the deception was something I was never able to get over- it was as if my right to choose my own lifestyle had been seen as irrelevant.
     
  9. jeepwranglerboi

    jeepwranglerboi New Member

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    Great topic! I definitely agree that a lot of it has to do with society and the role it asks each of us to choose, gay, straight, top, bottom, democrat...democrat :D Anyway, I believe that love has absolutely no boundaries, no limits, no color, no gender, no religion, etc. Could I fall in love with a woman? Sure, why not. Like it was said earlier your dick and your heart are two different things.

    I consider myself gay. I love men emotionally and physically but if I were to fall in love with a woman could I have sex with her? I'm sure I would but I know that I wouldn't enjoy it as much and deep down inside it just wouldn't be the same. I also think it would take an amazingly strong relationship for a man to love and spend his life with a woman but have sexual relations with men. If the woman were also emotionally commited but able to have sexual relations with other men or women I would think that would be ideal but still difficult. How long could a relationship like that last? I don't think I could do that. I feel like I would need to be in love and have sex with the same person in a relationship. Maybe I am not as evolved as some are. maybe it is society's influence, I don't know. As far as I am concerned I think that it is important to really do a lot of soul searching and tap into your emotions and give it time.
     
  10. B_RoysToy

    B_RoysToy New Member

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    I agree, madame_zora, that its dishonest to the mate not to tell him/her your sexual preference. In my situation, I went to a psychiatrist before we married b/c I knew not everything was what we call "normal". When I told him I didn't want to kiss men (at that time I hadn't met the right one), he told me everything would be ok and get married. My fiancee knew about this before our wedding.

    Several years after marriage and three children, I did meet a male with whom I would have gladly sucked face, every time I told my ex about my other interests she would reply, "No one as good in bed as you could be that way. It's all in your mind, dear". But, after 29 years and other strayings, she sued for divorce.

    Any comments?
     
  11. D_Leviticus Longrod

    D_Leviticus Longrod New Member

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    I particularly echo what was said by Madame and Jeep. I have seen a couple of families torn apart when it gets discovered that the Dad has been sleeping with a guy. I'm not quite sure why, but that type of affair seems even more damaging. And perhaps that's because, in a way, it could have been avoided by being honest. It hurts me to see anybody go through that experience.

    Like most gay guys, I felt pressure to have the "perfect" married, family life. But one of the biggest reasons I had to come out was the knowledge that I would not be able to live the double life of Governor McGreevey and other men in that situation. I couldn't do that to any person I love, let alone a woman were I too have married her. It might be hard now for young guys to figure out their feelings, but the truth and honesty will eventually prevail and the pain can be much greater if it involves a spouse and family down the road.

    And I believe that society is slowly redefining the "perfect" relationship or marriage. (No longer is Tom DeLay's married life held up to be the "perfect" standard - ok, I couldn't resist the punch). As gays and lesbians integrate more with society and don't seek to live in "ghettos", it's becoming clear, especially here in Massachusetts, that a married gay couple's life is just as perfect as their next door neighbor's: they both can have the dogs, the yard, the white picket fence, and the kids. We're so, so lucky to live when we do.
     
  12. madame_zora

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    Roystoys, I can feel great empathy for what you must have gone through. I can only assume you must be around the same age as my ex, and during that time, things were simply not discussed to the same degree they are now. It seems you did what you could to determine the right course of action, and it saddens me to think a trained professional could have given such faulty advice. I'm sure you love your children (I know this from other threads) and had some wonderful times in your marriage, but still I am glad for you that you finally came to terms with who you really are. For me, it was the willful dishonesty that I couldn't get past, and that sure doesn't seem to be the case with your situation. Also, I would have been ope to staying in the marriage if it had been an open marriage, but my ex wanted me to remain faithful, even though he was unable to complete a sex act with me!
     
  13. jonb

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    And that's the danger of being married and gay. Advice to gay men, and straight women for that matter: If you mess around with a married guy, someone's going to get hurt, and it usually won't be him. I think married gay/bi men might be able to make it, if she's open-minded about his preferences and he's out in the open about which men he sleeps with, men she knows well. Sadly, until the heteronormative social script disappears, down low drama will be there.
     
  14. PonyPete

    PonyPete New Member

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    I really don't understand what the big deal is. I'm sorry but I really don't. I live in a homophobic hick town and I still don't understand. Let me make this clear. I understand why a guy would suppress his homosexuality when I think about the stigma the general public puts on gays. What I don't understand is why homophobia is so rampant in what is supposed to be an enlightened age. I'm straight. Some guys are gay. Some are bisexual. What is it that causes the intolerance? Some will say the Bible but I don't buy that. The way people pick and choose what in the Bible applies to them and what they can totally disregard makes the thought that homosexuality is immoral because the Scriptures says so is clearly rubbish. I have much more respect for a gay man who's honest about who he is than for someone who hates someone else for something that he knows nothing about. I guess some folks are like that but I ain't got the time for such bullshit.
     
  15. madame_zora

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    Bravo, Ponypete. Please post here often, that kind of insight goes a long way. I also don't understand intolerance, it seems like a complete waste of effort. I wish everyone could just be direct and honest with each other about aho they are and what they want from a relationship- why does that seem to be so difficult?
     
  16. B_RoysToy

    B_RoysToy New Member

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    Roystoys, I can feel great empathy for what you must have gone through. I can only assume you must be around the same age as my ex, and during that time, things were simply not discussed to the same degree they are now. It seems you did what you could to determine the right course of action, and it saddens me to think a trained professional could have given such faulty advice. I'm sure you love your children (I know this from other threads) and had some wonderful times in your marriage, but still I am glad for you that you finally came to terms with who you really are. For me, it was the willful dishonesty that I couldn't get past, and that sure doesn't seem to be the case with your situation. Also, I would have been ope to staying in the marriage if it had been an open marriage, but my ex wanted me to remain faithful, even though he was unable to complete a sex act with me!

    Thanks for the expression of understanding, madam_zora. Yes, you're right in your summations re. no discussion of the situation during those times, the faulty advice of the professional, and my love of my children. I can't understand your husband's expectation of your being so 'pure', while he was 'living it up', however. Had I learned that my ex was a lesbian (she was as much 100% heterosexual as possible) I would have understood any 'getting it on the side', since I had such a strong desire for m/m. As I have expressed before, I would gladly spend the 29 years the same way for the awesome pleasure in having our three children. Their existence justifies this gay's being married and producing them regardless of some opinions.
     
  17. Imported

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    jizslurp: Hi, all. I'm a new member and have never posted before, but I find this topic very interesting and thought provoking. I guess I'm looking at this from a perspective similar to Madame_zora, but with a twist. I was in a gay relationship for 12 years until I found out my guy had been having an affair with a woman for many years. We had discussed his bisexuality in the past, and he had even been with women that I knew about, but the straw that broke the camel's back was me finding out he had been seeing one particular woman for many years, even though I had asked him directly if he was seeing her and he had denied it. It was the dishonesty, not the act. I also agree (although I consider myself 100% gay) that love happens anywhere. I don't fall in love with someone because of what's between his/her legs. I fall in love with a person. The three people I've been in love with happen to be males. Could I fall in love with a woman? I believe so. I would hate to think that I would limit myself that way. I agree that the person I want to wake up with when I'm 70 is just someone who is truly a good companion, someone I genuinely love and who genuinely loves me. For me, that will probably be a man, because I'm attracted to men. I'm kind of rambling here. I don't think you have to choose. I think you have to live your life, with as much openness as you can, and grab love where you can get it. For me, that's the most important thing of all. The rest doesn't matter in the long run. By the way, PonyPete, it's great to hear from "breeders" who don't understand homophobia. I have a lot of great straight male friends who feel the same, and I can't tell you how important that is to me. I'll sign this novel off now. Thanks for listening.
     
  18. jeepwranglerboi

    jeepwranglerboi New Member

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    Wow! Welcome jizslurp and what a wonderful and poignant post. Your comments are much appreciated here. :)
     
  19. B_DoubleMeatWhopper

    B_DoubleMeatWhopper New Member

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    A post like this shows why I wanted you guys to give Pete a chance. I think he has redeemed himself. That's my boy! :D

    But about the point that Pete raised: he may not understand it, but I do. People fear what they don't know. Fear can't be admitted by some people; it's viewed as a weakness. If they don't 'know' something, they don't understand its inner workings; they can't predict what it's going to do. All they can do is make broad assumptions, and those assumptions are usually wrong. One of the most common misconceptions about gay men is that we're child molesters. Some straight people actually think we prey upon the youth to recruit to our ranks. That's why it's so difficult for high school teachers to live as openly gay.Thankfully, that idiotic notion is no longer espoused by the population at large ... if it weren't for organisations like NAMBLA, it would die a much-deserved death sooner. But such uninformed opinions do linger, and that fear translates into hate, pure and simple.

    One of the best qualities of this site is the tolerance of sexual differences by the members. Most (there are some exceptions) find nothing obscene about differing sexualities. Even if they don't agree with the sexual 'lifestyles' as they perceive them, they respect others' rights to live those lifestyles. The members here accept human diversity. In fact, they embrace it. If the outside world were more like LPSG, we'd experience far fewer hate crimes. Unfortunately, we know that will never be the case. My hope is that kids like Pete will shape the future.
     
  20. prepstudinsc

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    I hate all the labels--they are so confining. They box us in to these little corners and define us into this "black and white" definition of something that is a grey area.
    Human sexuality is a continuum, and while there are people at the two extremes, I think most people do fall into the spectrum in between. Whether or not they act on the desires of "bisexuality" is another story, but many men, have at least experimented one time or another. This doesn't mean that they are gay, but does it make them bi? Look at the book "Men on the Down Low." It deals with this very issue. Men who are lead straight lives, but are screwing around with other straight men. Why is it done? Obviously, some do it for pleasure; some might do it for intimacy; some do it for various other reasons. The men in the book wouldn't associate with "gay" culture, having the stereotypical American dream family life. I do think people who live like that are selfish, though--wanting to have their cake and eat it to.

    I have several friends who are gay and have been married with families. One stayed married after his wife found out that he had been having gay affairs (including her brother!) another friend is in the process of a divorce now.
    I wouldn't do that to anyone--I think if you know beforehand, you have to be honest with the other person. If you truly aren't sure, it's a different story.

    I have experimented with guys--I've been turned on by some of them. Truthfully, "gay" culture does nothing for me. I'm actually turned off by a lot of gay society and wouldn't be associated with it. I consider myself straight, for the most part, because I like girls, I enjoy the company of girls, and get turned on by them. I guess that I would be part of the "continuum" of sexuality, and so for ease of nomenclature I say straight, but I just don't really think about it. I just think of myself as being sexual. I look at a person for what they have to offer and for the characteristics that I find attractive. I can appreciate male beauty as much as I can female beauty.

    I know that when I get into a serious relationship again, I am going to have to be honest with my girlfriend and tell her that I have had some male experiences. That is something I've never told a girlfriend before--who knows, it might spice up the bedroom life! LOL Anyway, I would just want her to know what she was getting up front, and not have to find out by accident. No one gains anything by finding out through second hand information. Lies and deceit don't benefit anyone and all it does is make for a miserable relationship.
     
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