"Emotionally straight" but sexually gay?

jonb

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Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper@Oct 16 2004, 09:57 AM
But about the point that Pete raised: he may not understand it, but I do. People fear what they don't know. Fear can't be admitted by some people; it's viewed as a weakness. If they don't 'know' something, they don't understand its inner workings; they can't predict what it's going to do. All they can do is make broad assumptions, and those assumptions are usually wrong. One of the most common misconceptions about gay men is that we're child molesters. Some straight people actually think we prey upon the youth to recruit to our ranks. That's why it's so difficult for high school teachers to live as openly gay.Thankfully, that idiotic notion is no longer espoused by the population at large ... if it weren't for organisations like NAMBLA, it would die a much-deserved death sooner. But such uninformed opinions do linger, and that fear translates into hate, pure and simple.

One of the best qualities of this site is the tolerance of sexual differences by the members. Most (there are some exceptions) find nothing obscene about differing sexualities. Even if they don't agree with the sexual 'lifestyles' as they perceive them, they respect others' rights to live those lifestyles. The members here accept human diversity. In fact, they embrace it. If the outside world were more like LPSG, we'd experience far fewer hate crimes. Unfortunately, we know that will never be the case. My hope is that kids like Pete will shape the future.
[post=259784]Quoted post[/post]​
Hey, what about me? I was recruited into heterosexuality by a twentysomething at age 14. Makes about as much sense as the idea that gay men "recruit" younger men. In fact, it makes 19 times as much sense, according to Freund, since less than 1% of pedophilia cases involved a man and a boy and 19% were a woman with a boy. It bodes even worse for the Family Research Council wrt lesbians: Freund couldn't find a single girl molested by a woman.

And when I think about it, really, homosexual pedophilia doesn't make much sense; it kinda defeats the purpose of being attracted to members of the same sex if your partners don't have any secondary sex characteristics.
 

jonb

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Don't be surprised, prepstud; in a lot of cultures, the life-long 0's and 6's are considered impotent. (Only about 5% of men are life-long 0's, and only about 4% are life-long 6's anyway. But this is before gay activism and with it the need for a bimodal distribution: Now straight men are too macho to admit being a 1, 2, or 3; and gay men are afraid someone might think of it as a choice if they admit they're a 3, 4, or 5, which is strange, since various bodily dimensions are also on a modal distribution, but hardly a choice.)
 

Cale

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I was about to open another thread on this very same topic, but was relieved to find it was already being discussed.

Yes, I am the Cale mentioned in the first post of this thread. Somewhere in the deep archives of this forum is my original thread, but since I'm not a premium member, I can't search for it.

It's been months since I made that original post and I'm still not any better off than I was before. I got a lot of great advice from lots of helpful, supportive men and women on this site, and I'm incredibly grateful for that. But the advice was over a broad spectrum: some guys told me I should accept my homosexual feelings and follow them, while others said that the ideal companion for a man was only a woman and I should try to repress my gay tendencies. Many seemed to fall somewhere in the middle. No one had the perfect solution, which I guess I had been hoping for in the back of my mind.

I'm in my sophomore year of college now, and I'm finding myself getting romantically involved with a female classmate of mine. She's an ideal companion: smart, funny, attractive, and downright enchanting. But as I danced with her last Friday night and looked into her eyes, I found myself looking deep down inside myself and wondering if I was doing the right thing. Up until now, repressing my homosexual identity in society had been favorable, but now I was about to cross the line where hearts might get broken and feelings could be hurt. Could I truly love a woman spiritually, yet still lust after men?

Headbang summed it up best in the first post when he talked about the dream of having "a wife, 2.3 kids and membership in the country club." That exactly sums up what I want for my future adult life: a loving wife and kids alongside a respectable career. I kind of empathize with the people who talked about how a woman is the perfect -- the only -- companion for a man, because I can't imagine having a deep spiritual bond with another male. At the same time, I know that bond wouldn't be complete without a fully-satisfying erotic relationship on the side.

So that's really what this all comes down to: putting my cock with a man and my heart with a woman.

But I know I can't have it that way.
 

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Cale, maybe it's just not time yet. Not to fall in love with a woman...or a man. You can have all of those wonderful "normal" life elements with another man. You need to stop pressuring yourself to make this decision. If you are open, honest and feeling, your mind, heart and body as well, will make the choice for you. And has been stated before, not everyone (very few in fact) fall totally at the end of the spectrum, in either direction. Also, you just may/might be bi-sexual. It's real, it happens and I have a very good friend who has led an incredibly well adjusted and happy life "bi." Don't push it, you have many, many wonderful sexual years ahead of you, regardless of which gender. Relax and enjoy your life....see where it takes you.
 

someone2004uk

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This is quite an interesting topic, which i could see going on for ages, but first i wish to add my premier post to the community and my 2 cents to the whole issue.

Being in a similar possition to Cale, you do start to question whether it's fair. I have told my parents about my feelings, but i have never truly discussed it them, i feel that's it's something i need to sort out on my own. While i have never spoken to any of my friends about it since trusting someone with such information and requesting it say between me and them, then having to "take it back" when they were going around teliing people because i was scared it would affect friendships that i valued, with both sexes.

When asked directly whether i "was or not" (which i personally is the worst thing you can ask someone in such a position) i would always say i "wasn't" or "don't care" as not to "block off" any oppotunities or typecast myself, because one way or other, by answering such a question, your closing off the chance to have a relationship one on the genders. I want to kept my options open, as you can never really decide whether one type of relationshop works or not unless you've tried both.

I hope this is making sense. but that's my 2 cents for now.
 

D_Martin van Burden

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Originally posted by headbang8@Oct 12 2004, 05:22 PM
P.S. And you are so right about men giving better head. But try telling that to a chick...
[post=259142]Quoted post[/post]​

Heh, I have, hb. Once they got past the "shock" of hearing that, they nodded in agreement. Of course, it probably helped that I said that girls could eat each other out way better than we guys ever could, anyway.
 

D_Martin van Burden

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These responses make a hell of a lot of sense, and I'm glad they're being discussed so freely. We all take a chance of love. Some people are a little more adventurous, in touch with their feelings, and are willing to take chances and risks. Such a risk may include getting seriously involved with someone of the same sex, not only because of the stigma attached to the gay stuff, but also to the lack of social scripting for that particular life choice. (Or "non-choice," if you think sexuality has more of a biological component. Your call.)

You're always told how to fall in love with the opposite sex, but you don't get that with the same sex. And for me, it's probably true, too. I have only been involved deeply with one guy -- dating, I mean -- and that didn't last. The sex was pretty decent, but there wasn't a deep emotional connection. So I'm stuck wondering, did things work out that way because I refused that opportunity or a spark just wasn't there? Don't know for sure, and it'd give me a headache to think about it too much because it's not all that big a deal. I did what I set out to do -- date a guy and feel okay with it.

Don't let the status quo dictate who you care about or what turns you on. That's what your partner is for. What I mean is, your partner is going to care about you unconditionally, if it's really love, and hopefully, will not get as label-obsessive as the average Joe. To those that you have to explain every nuance of your sexuality, chances are, those aren't the people you're going to spend a good part of your life with. They're just... ah... opportunities for self-knowledge.

And even if you can't describe it all that well to yourself... just go with the flow. If you only feel physical attraction toward a particular sex, fine. If you don't feel comfortable getting emotionally involved, fine. So long as you're not cheating and being deceptive or dishonest (to yourself or to whomever you end up with), you're ok.
 
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Originally posted by DeeBlackthorne@Oct 21 2004, 02:27 AM
These responses make a hell of a lot of sense, and I'm glad they're being discussed so freely.  We all take a chance of love.  Some people are a little more adventurous, in touch with their feelings, and are willing to take chances and risks.  Such a risk may include getting seriously involved with someone of the same sex, not only because of the stigma attached to the gay stuff, but also to the lack of social scripting for that particular life choice.  (Or "non-choice," if you think sexuality has more of a biological component.  Your call.)

You're always told how to fall in love with the opposite sex, but you don't get that with the same sex.  And for me, it's probably true, too.  I have only been involved deeply with one guy -- dating, I mean -- and that didn't last.  The sex was pretty decent, but there wasn't a deep emotional connection.  So I'm stuck wondering, did things work out that way because I refused that opportunity or a spark just wasn't there?  Don't know for sure, and it'd give me a headache to think about it too much because it's not all that big a deal.  I did what I set out to do -- date a guy and feel okay with it.

Don't let the status quo dictate who you care about or what turns you on.  That's what your partner is for.  What I mean is, your partner is going to care about you unconditionally, if it's really love, and hopefully, will not get as label-obsessive as the average Joe.  To those that you have to explain every nuance of your sexuality, chances are, those aren't the people you're going to spend a good part of your life with.  They're just... ah... opportunities for self-knowledge. 

And even if you can't describe it all that well to yourself... just go with the flow.  If you only feel physical attraction toward a particular sex, fine.  If you don't feel comfortable getting emotionally involved, fine.  So long as you're not cheating and being deceptive or dishonest (to yourself or to whomever you end up with), you're ok.
[post=260523]Quoted post[/post]​


As usual Dee says everything so perfectly. Awesome man.

I had a gay guy fall for me last year, and it was a very difficult situation. I tried to be supportive and understanding, but the whole thing was confusing for me and I just kept expressing my concern. This guy took my concern for mutual attraction. I asked a mutual female friend to talk with him because it seemed that everything I said just made things worse. It ended up that he was pissed at me for not feeling something similar for him. I think that maybe this is how people can regain their self-esteem, if they reject the object of love, when that person doesn't reciprocate.
I learned something very useful in this experience. I learned that some guys are more vulnerable than I thought, and that any one can break your heart, woman or man. I don't know if this is emotionally gay or straight. I think it's just human.
 

hungthick

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Originally posted by madame_zora@Oct 15 2004, 09:20 AM
Bravo, Ponypete. Please post here often, that kind of insight goes a long way. I also don't understand intolerance, it seems like a complete waste of effort. I wish everyone could just be direct and honest with each other about aho they are and what they want from a relationship- why does that seem to be so difficult?
[post=259633]Quoted post[/post]​


I will add here that it is not always easy for people to be honest. Do i agree with dishonesty? No. There are many rippling effects to a man telling society that he is gay and most are negative. If a man sincerely tries in a marriage I dont think he should say, "Marry me but i like dudes as well." If a man is marrying only to cover being gay than that is deceit. It is like a man cheating on his wife for another woman. I dont think he gets married with the intentions of cheating on his wife. I am a firm believer in being honest but i am not a believer in telling anyone all of one's business--even his spouse. It is bad news from the beginning and only you would know if you would have gotten married to this guy knowing he was into dudes. In fact, would you have continued to date him had he told you he swinged both ways?
 

Peter Wood

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I will add here that it is not always easy for people to be honest. Do i agree with dishonesty? No. There are many rippling effects to a man telling society that he is gay and most are negative. If a man sincerely tries in a marriage I dont think he should say, "Marry me but i like dudes as well." If a man is marrying only to cover being gay than that is deceit. It is like a man cheating on his wife for another woman. I dont think he gets married with the intentions of cheating on his wife. I am a firm believer in being honest but i am not a believer in telling anyone all of one's business--even his spouse. It is bad news from the beginning and only you would know if you would have gotten married to this guy knowing he was into dudes. In fact, would you have continued to date him had he told you he swinged both ways?
[post=260732]Quoted post[/post]​
[/quote]

Thanks hungthick, this is exactly what i feel. I have been str8 for so long, it confuses me that there are other feelings in me that come up after so many years.
 

madame_zora

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Originally posted by hungthick@Oct 22 2004, 12:59 PM

I will add here that it is not always easy for people to be honest. Do i agree with dishonesty? No. There are many rippling effects to a man telling society that he is gay and most are negative. If a man sincerely tries in a marriage I dont think he should say, "Marry me but i like dudes as well." If a man is marrying only to cover being gay than that is deceit. It is like a man cheating on his wife for another woman. I dont think he gets married with the intentions of cheating on his wife. I am a firm believer in being honest but i am not a believer in telling anyone all of one's business--even his spouse. It is bad news from the beginning and only you would know if you would have gotten married to this guy knowing he was into dudes. In fact, would you have continued to date him had he told you he swinged both ways?
[post=260732]Quoted post[/post]​


Hungthick, I am sure no expert on bisexuality, but I do think marriage is about fidelity in most people's minds. If you have some reason (like being strongly attracted to men) why you can't offer fidelity to a woman, then it should be her right to know that. I completely agree that it is very hard to be honest, but it is unfair to give someone unrealistic expectations of what their life will be like when it simply isn't the case. She should be able to make a decision based on true information, otherwise it is deceptive. I, personally, would be glad to continue seeing a man who was bisexual, perhaps even work it into our relationship at times, if he were honest up front- at least by the time we were getting serious. I realise that I am the excpetion to the rule, but I'm certainly not alone! Two of my women friends right now are very happy in relationships with bisexual men, with the understanding that they are both free to explore sex outside the relationship. I just think it's important for people to know what they're promising to love honor and cherish. I can't see how a relationship founded on a lie can be beneficial to anyone. Just my .02, but having been there, the lie was what killed the love, not the sex act.
 

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Zora, did you ever considered that the man you married wasn't just being dishoenst with you, but also dishonest with himself? Maybe he honestly believed he could make a monogamous, heterosexual relationship with you work in the end and somehow change himself to make life better for the both of you.

I'm more confused than ever now. I'm getting real close with this girl at school, but Zora's comments about her deceptive husband are making me feel pretty guilty about it. I'm not getting any less gayer.......MAN this sucks.
 

madame_zora

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Cale, I'm absolutely SURE he was being dishonest with himself! Several hundred dollars worth of couple's therapy revealed that, which is why I thought it necessary to post. A pickle simply can't go back to being a cucumber, you know? I don't think we can "will" ourselves out of our sexual orientation, so I echo, honesty is something you owe any prospective partner, and yourself!
 

Cale

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I've been getting seriously introspective lately with my sexuality and where I should be going from here. As a nineteen year old in a very open-minded, left-wing college city, one would think I shouldn't still be having any troubles with this issue, but quite the opposite is true. But, at least I'm not feeling sullen and depressed about it...for now...

I'm spending a large percentage of my free time with this girl from school, and we're having a great time together. Nothing mushy yet -- no kissing or holding hands or lying in bed next to each other -- but it seems to be getting ever closer. I like this girl, and I like being around her, but I'm not becoming sexually attracted to her at all. This confirms my deep suspicions that I'm really just gay and not bisexual, but it really doesn't help my situation.

I just got back from the rec center a little while ago. Taking a shower in the locker room gave me the seemingly insatiable urge to drive down to the nearby gay bathhouse and finally indulge myself with what I've been wanting to do for so long now. I'm still a virgin from whichever view you look at it, so I'm always nervous about this prospect to say the least. A quick jackoff session once I got home seemed to alleviate my cravings to drive down there...for now...

And if I did go to the bathhouse, what then? Would I be cheating on my girlfriend? I really want to avoid the predicament Zora's ex-husband put himself into...but at the same time, I don't know if I'm ready to be gay. I still feel like I have a female soulmate somewhere out there, and she's not a transgender. I still picture myself settling down with a wife in the suburbs, not a male lover.

So, to sum it all up...

THIS ALL FUCKING SUCKS!!!

Believe me, I want nothing more than to either be 100% heterosexual, or accepting of my homosexuality and not thinking too much of it. But it seems like I can't make either of those solutions come true.

FUCK.

Raaarrrgh.

You openly gay men make it look so damn easy.
 

fuzzydude

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Originally posted by Cale@Oct 31 2004, 04:00 AM
You openly gay men make it look so damn easy.
[post=261823]Quoted post[/post]​

Many things have a tendency to become easier with experience.
It sure as hell wasn't easy for me in my teens and early twenties.

All I want to leave you with right now though, is my response to your comment about running down to the bathhouse. The bathhouse can/will be an overwhemingly intense erotic experience. Do not go until you are ABSOLUTELY ENTIRELY CERTAIN that you will be able to play safe. This is essential, and it's so so easy to get carried away by the heat of the moment.

One question: do you think there's any chance you could confide in this girl? If she's as nice as you say she is, it might help the situation.
 

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Wow!

This topic is intense to say the least... I am so very impressed by the graciousness and intelligence with which this topic is being discussed. I consider myself to be 100% heterosexual female and for some reason , for most of my life I have had lesbians approach me with the assumption that I was gay. I have no idea where they got that notion from other than the fact that I have kept my personal life relatively quiet. I was disturbed by this until a friend let me know that people are going to try and make their pitch for someone they may find attractive. After that, I basically saw the approaches made to me as I would any heterosexual male trying his luck. I too can fully appreciate female beauty and "handsomeness" and know that if I were of that orientation the attentions of certain individuals may have been reciprocated. Being in a field that for some reason attracts a high degree of homosexuality we all pretty much take each other as we come with our sexual orientation being only one of many components in who we are as people. I can not imagine what it must be like to have an orientation that runs against the majority of society. I well know that there are many who fear and express great prejudice against even members of their own family who are openly gay. So one part of my brain can process the fear of disclosure. But as a verse in the bible says "Perfect love casteth out all fear". Having been hurt very, very deeply by someone who I dated and greatly cared about for several years ,I plead with those who are and have had feelings or relationships with those of the same gender . Tell the one you are with. I thought that this man was my friend as well as someone who I might have married. HE in fact had even made a proposal of sorts. That he could have not trusted me enough to tell me that he was using me as a "beard" or "cover girl" for years was devastating. He finally exited the relationship in a most cowardly way on my birthday a number of years ago by calling me from another city . No transition, no fights , no explanations , nothing! Just one very shocking and nasty phone call that rocked my world. Perhaps he did not know how to tell me or how to leave the relationship but it devastated me in a way that took quite a while to recover from. So, please... find a way to work it out early on. Hit and run is never pretty or honest.

Naughty
 

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Been lurking for a while, hi all...

Cale, I can really relate to your dilemma here. I was in a very similar situation some years ago when I was confused and distressed by the hurricane of feelings that were going on inside my head. Having come from what I thought was a homophobic family (they're not now!) I felt I had no choice but to go with the flow and eventually married my girlfriend - in the end, that's all she was to become, a girl who was a friend. Throughout our marriage I was still torn but due to my own feelings of commitment I only fantasised about being with a man. When the marriage was over this gave me a chance to be who I really always wanted to be, a sexually active gay man. I don't consider those feelings to constitute me having been dishonest and having spoken to ex recently, neither does she.

I guess we now live in a much more tolerant society in general and you have a choice, no, many choices. I wish I'd had the chance to 'try it out' earlier in life; experiment, find your own way, be safe and try to be honest with yourself and others.

This started about 20 years ago.... now living with wonderful man for 5 years and loving every minute of life. Good luck xx
 

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Cale,

I really feel for you. You still have time to explore your feelings. I think you should continue to post here and maybe start your own thread to a specific question you want to ask. At this point i would not say anything to your g/f but remain close to her. Dont do anything stupid like visiting a bathhouse rather go slow and think about things before reacting. You have plenty of time to lose your virgininty and you have plenty of time to decide if you are gay. My advse is not to make any declarations until after college.

Whatever you decide if you go slow and think about it you will have no regrets. At your age you are not doing anything disrespectful to your g/f. I am going to sound conservative here but at 19 years old i dont think you should be having sex anyway. I think being with a woman is a wonderful thing but it isnt meant for everyone. In fact, completely str8 men end up without one--so dont worry, you're too young.
 

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Cale,
We may make it "look easy", but it rarely is, especially for those of us coming to terms with our homosexuality years ago in less tolerant times. There is no time line, no pattern to follow. We are each and every one individuals. Take it easy, be introspective, safely explore and become your own man. In your own time. No one can define your sexuality for you. It will all be resolved if you have an open heart and an open mind, so do not pressure yourself. Conflict whether internal or external, is part of what makes us the men we are. Last thought; rely on people you love and trust, who love and trust you and make your own path.
Steve
 

headbang8

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Time for a bit of tough love from a stranger, Cale.

First, remember you're not alone in feeling the way you do. Every gay man--no, make that every man--gets to a stage in his life where he has to accept himself for what he is.

That's always hard.

How tall are you, Cale? Would you like to be taller? Tough. You'll never play NBL or date Elle McPherson, or whatever.

Easy for me to say. Maybe your life-long dream is to be a pro-basketball player (or more to the point, to date Elle McPherson). Maybe you?ve put heart and soul into that dream. Maybe you can't imagine any other life for yourself. Maybe you see it as the only way to escape from where you are now.

OK. Shattered dream. You're not the first guy fucked by the luck of the draw, and you won't be the last.

Here's what I suggest. Take a little time out, to mourn the loss of your dream.

Elizabeth Kuebler Ross described the human state of mind when confronted with loss. I can't remember the exact terms, but she maintained that we face several predictable stages of grief. First comes the shock; then denial, anger, "bargaining" with God, and finally acceptance. You sound like you've stopped denying your sexuality, and have certainly felt anger at your fate. Great! As I said before, you're much further ahead than I was at your age. (I reached my 30s before I went through what youre going through, by the way.)

But if you think you can force gay instincts into a straight heart...well that sounds a bit like bargaining to me. A waste of energy that keeps you from the last, crucial, challenging stage: acceptance of yourself as you are.

Right. The old dream is fondly remembered, but well and truly laid to rest. Now what?

Get dreaming again. You'll need to start from scratch, though. For people like you and me, there's no prefab dream like the one you?d bought off the shelf. That's scary. But far more rewarding.

Every gay man gets over this hump in his own way. As you suggest, some console themselves in the bath house. And who are we to knock it if it works?

Personally, I did a couple of things. I joined a peer support group through the local gay men's health centre. I'm sure you can find something similar on campus or in the local community. And I went camping in the mountains for a couple of days. I found a quiet spot, and took time to reflect. I guess you could even call it meditation, though I balk at the word.

I emerged with a much clearer head. I stopped beating myself up about being gay, and set about living a gay life in a satisfying, wholesome way. By wholesome, I certainly don't mean celibate. Rather, to be relaxed about it, accept pleasure if it is offered to me, and reciprocate with dignity and care. (Even if I happen to be in a bath house at the time.)

Further, I'd opened my heart to the possibility of more than pleasure. Warmth and affection, at least. If I was lucky, maybe even love.

The last proved a challenge. Like you, I could imagine men having sex, but romance between men--between another man and me--dialed up the ick factor. But that fell away quickly, simply by keeping an open mind.

I resolved not to push it, either. True love happens rarely enough in the straight world. Imagine the odds against it in the much smaller population of gay men. Funnily enough, when you stop looking for love in every encounter, it seems to find you in great abundance.

It found me, big time. Ironically, I pretty much live the prefab dream I dissed a few paragraphs ago. No kids, sadly. Like many straight couples, my partner and I left it too late. But everything else you describe--a loving partner and a respectable career--yes.

It's ironic, too, that you quote my remark about the country club, because as I read your post, I remembered to my horror and embarassment that I actually qualify on that count. And you know what? My partner carries a spouse membership card.

Nobody--gay or straight--gets everything he wants in life. But your chances of getting a good slice of it rise substantially if you're true to yourself. You just need the courage to go for it.