"Emotionally Straight" Redux

jonb

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I'm convinced any deity wouldn't care about sex. Now, if the sex had potential negative consequences, such as disease or children, then yes, that deity would care. But the same array of diseases affects straight guys as gay guys, and I seriously doubt you can get a man pregnant.

I'm Lakota, and my father's very traditional, so my bi tendencies weren't as much drama as for white teens. (I had enough drama in my life for other reasons.) Actually, and I didn't notice this until post-election correlation, the gayest county in the Midwest is home to the Pine Ridge reservation.

One of the big problems is that there's all this hype that "all" gay men have 10,000 partners by age 25. But that's all it is: Hype. You don't have to fall for it.
 

Ecchi

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The whole thing about homosexuals being unable to adopt ... what foundation are they using for such a ludicrous ruling?

Cale, I can ... and can't ... comment on what you go through. My sexuality is a strange subject, although I find myself leaning closer to straight. My g/f Kris ... I love her beyond what I can capably describe, I feel comfortable with her, and I love every second of physical and emotional intimacy I have with her. Still, there are leanings in me that make me wonder if I'm bi. Hard ... very hard ... to explain.

But hun ... you'd do well to heed the words of these folks. Don't worry so much about conforming to any ideal ... do be afraid of hurt ... open up your mind, and embrace what you want and need in a loved one. Be open, be honest, be fearless, as much as you can be.

And don't be afraid to come back here for advice and support. We'll be here for ya. :D
 

jonb

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Well, the law is kinda difficult; I wonder how they define homosexual. Laws intended to specifically discriminate against a group must define the group, or else it just becomes chaos; there were two cases by the Supreme Court in 1922 and 1923 within four months of each other, Ozawa v. United States and In re Thind, which used contradictory standards for whiteness: Ozawa was a very light-skinned Japanese man who was denied citizenship because he wasn't Caucasian; Thind was a Caucasian who was denied citizenship because he was dark-skinned.
 

Atlrabbit

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Everyone has given such thoughtful and caring remarks I am greatly impressed with the sensitivity of those before me. I just wanted to interject a couple of thoughts...I don't think anyone has discussed the huge emotional strain, the depression and stress a man faces as he goes through life trying to maintain a marriage with a women, children in the marriage, and the tremendous amount of energy one has to use to just "keep the secret." While younger it dmay not appear to be as overwhelming but as we get older the strain is almost unbearable. There is loneliness, anxiety, low self esteem, and even a sense of being paranoid. A day at the beach with the wife and kids turns into an emotional hell while you are surrounded by all of the hunky guys also at the beach. Then one day you just can't stand it and the goodlooking guy in the urinal standing next to you is playing with himself and he reaches over...now add the guilt. You begin to find other places to "play." Then it's either explaining to her the std, or that phone call from the jail when you were caught "playing" somewhere you shouldn't have, or your picture is on the evening news when you've been caught in a sting operation. Or one day you go to the doctor for a physical...your blood pressure is off the chart..due to the stress and strain...or even worse you're being rushed to the hospital for a heart attack. No one can understand why you're under so much stress. Why is life so much of a stain on the physical body. You can live a life with these emotional straints or let go of it and accept yourself for the wonder person we have been created to be.
I don't think any man (or I at least hope not) is out to harm their g/f or wife...we don't even begin to understand the emotional damage we inject on her when we're trying to "hide" the secret. And it also boils over into every relationship we maintain, including our children. It hurts...not just one...but all.

And as far as not thinking one could be in a loving, caring, cuddly relationship with another man...well, no one is really ready for a relationship until one accepts and yes...loves himself first. As a man gets to this point of loving/accepting himself...you instantly turn into a "man magnet." And we all love man-magnets!

If you love your g/f at all...spare her the hurt...love her enough to be honest...be loving enought to allow her to have her freedom as well. Save a life...don't be apart of destroying one. My thoughts and prayers are for you and all of those who have to make this journey...you are not alone.
 

DadsAreUs

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Dear Cale,

I am going to add my two cents here. If I'm repeating someone else or this is mere surplussage than I apologize.

Coming out can be a very, very difficult thing. Until you do it, you will be consumed with fears that are diferent versions of the same thing. You will wonder how your parents will react and you will be scared to death that they will never look at you the same way again, that you will never feel the comfort of going home, sitting on the couch, sharing jokes and memories from childhood: that you will never be their litltle boy, their son, again. This fear is always worst for those who love their families. Its an emotional problem that seemingly, paradoxically, is in direct proportion to the functionality of your family.

You probably also worry about the reaction of childhood friends, your best friend from high school. the clique you hung out with etc. And the last thing you want to be is the gay cousin, uncle, nephew, grandson, etc. Will some of these people from your life be awkward around you? Not want to hang out? Say things behind your back? Probably. But most will get over it. And as far as the high school friends go, they were likely going to fade into the past anyhow.

Lastly, you probably have trouble envisioning an adult life as a gay man. What will that be like? Does it mean an existence of sleaze, bath houses, dirty sidewalks and neon signs blinking outside your roach infested 4th floor walk-up apartment? Will you spend your days in some anonomous office, keeping to yourself and refering to a girlfriend no one will ever meet, pretending you like going to the occassional strip club with your boss and coming up with new and creative excuses when friends tell you they "have the perfect girl for you, you really should meet?" Will all pleasure come after midnight when you stalk the streets on the dingy side of town, making darting glances at guys you might not even be attracted to just so you can sneak off to the balcony of a movie theater or a back room for a quick blow job, then skulk back home to feel miserable and alone?

Anyhow, you get my drift. When I was growing up (I'm in my 30s) these were the only images I had of gay life. (We didn't have Will and Grace.) But this is not my life. And it doesn't need to be yours. Your parents will need time to get used to it but they will come around. Oddly, I think that having gay children can be very healthy for parents. At a time when most adult lives are devoted to nothing but the slow atrophe on the way to retirement and death, parents of gay kids have to grow and learn and turn their brains back on. Most of your friends will probably be pretty cool when you tell them and, to some extent, they already suspect/know. Don't kid yourself. They just don't know how to bring it up to you.

When you come out your life will improve so dramatically I can't begin to describe. People keep saying its hard being gay and I don't exactly know what that means. Life is hard. Life is struggle. But life is also fun, rewarding, challenging and fulfilling. And this is for straight, gay, bi, whatever. All adolescents are faced with the challenge of learning to build for themselves an adult life that most closely resembles the one that will make them happiest. Straight kids wonder too about finding love, where will they live, what will they do, how much money will they make, who will their friends be. Heterosexuality is only an answer to those questions for folks who don't really want to ask them or don't really want to know the answers.

Finally, I don't agree with the advice to get yourself to a bath house. I'm guessing that this is not what you are looking for and that it is, to a certain extent, what you are trying to avoid. Join a gay student group. Meet people there. Do things with them. Go for a walk, hike, to a movie, to a shopping mall. Go to gay.com and make some online friends. Chat with them. Find out what they like, what are their interests. Then meet one or two or three at a bar or movie theater or coffee house, etc and hang out. Or go to a gay bar and when you see people that you think you want to meet, walk up to them. "'Sup? Can I buy you a drink? My name is Cale. You want to shoot some pool? Do you want to dance?" Don't be afraid to breach that divide. Starting the conversation is the hardest part. And when you find someone that you are attracted to and he's attracted to you, lean in and give him a kiss. It will be the happiest moment of your life (until you continue living the rest of it.)

You will slowly find that all your fears about coming out were unfounded and those feelings will be replaced by the feeling of actually living your life and truly enjoying it. And when you face future crisises (I'm failing Biology 327, my boyfriend broke up with me, I need to break up with my boyfriend, I've graduated college now what? Where will I live? What will I do? I got laid off/fired, I can't come up with a downpament for the house I want, now I've bought the house and I didn't know how much work it needed, "Honey, am I losing my hair?" and so on) you will have the stregnth that somes from having gotten through that earlier crises which, by now, will seem pretty inconsequential.

Well, if you are still reading you've got a pretty big attention span. Maybe there's a support group for that, too.
 
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spoolworm: Hi all.

Although ppl are different, I find it more and more difficult to believe in 100% heterosexuality or homosexuality.

You have to be honest about this. There's nothing wrong about being gay or having gay sexual fantasies, contrary to what some may have you believe it's perfectly natural. Some species of monkey are entirely bisexual. Actually human heterosexualtiy is quite abnormal compared to other species.

Just tell your wife about it, and then find out how to continue. There are perfectly happy married couples, where the husband occasionaly goes on gay weekend break when he feels like it. But you can't lie about these kind of things, you have to tell your partner.
Just tell your wife, tell her you need to find out about yourself. If she loves you she'll understand. It's possible she's already noticed things, and thinks that it's her fault.

Also, like some of the above have already said: homosexuality isn't only anal sex in a sleazy sauna(to be crude). Some people like this, some don't. There are different ways of expressing yourself, and you have to find out what you like. It isn't cos the bathhouse is a turn off that you're not gay or have gay leanings.

Sorry if I've repeated what others have said.
 

jonb

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I didn't even know bath houses were still the "in" thing for cruising spots. I thought it was the men's room now.

Either way, there are lots of functions in your typical gay village. The bookstores have a lot of fiction which parallels the authors' own coming out experiences and non-fiction about homosexuality historically and cross-culturally, in addition to reference materials for your sex education. There are gay bars, gay dance clubs, gay festivals, and even gay-friendly churches.

You'll find that behind the hype, being gay is a lot like being straight, only you're romantically inclined toward the same sex rather than the opposite sex.
 

B_DoubleMeatWhopper

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Originally posted by jonb@Jan 17 2005, 12:56 AM
You'll find that behind the hype, being gay is a lot like being straight, only you're romantically inclined toward the same sex rather than the opposite sex.

But at the beginning of the same post, he wrote:

I didn't even know bath houses were still the "in" thing for cruising spots. I thought it was the men's room now.

Funny ... I've never heard of a straight person cruising men's rooms for potential sexual partners. :eek:

(BTW, I've cruised a men's room for sex only once. The disastrous results were posted by me here at LPSG.)
 

DadsAreUs

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Actually, bath houses are making a surprising comeback, at least in New York. Young, hip guys will stop in for a quickie after work or killing time before a movie or meeting a friend.
 

Ecchi

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Originally posted by DoubleMeatWhopper+Jan 17 2005, 01:06 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DoubleMeatWhopper &#064; Jan 17 2005, 01:06 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-jonb@Jan 17 2005, 12:56 AM
You&#39;ll find that behind the hype, being gay is a lot like being straight, only you&#39;re romantically inclined toward the same sex rather than the opposite sex.

But at the beginning of the same post, he wrote:

I didn&#39;t even know bath houses were still the "in" thing for cruising spots. I thought it was the men&#39;s room now.

Funny ... I&#39;ve never heard of a straight person cruising men&#39;s rooms for potential sexual partners. :eek:

(BTW, I&#39;ve cruised a men&#39;s room for sex only once. The disastrous results were posted by me here at LPSG.)
[post=274975]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]

Hopefully this doesn&#39;t come off wrong but ..... people actually DO that???

Just ..... weird .....
 

DadsAreUs

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(BTW, I&#39;ve cruised a men&#39;s room for sex only once. The disastrous results were posted by me here at LPSG.)
[post=274975]Quoted post[/post]​
[/quote]

Hopefully this doesn&#39;t come off wrong but ..... people actually DO that???

Just ..... weird .....
[post=275418]Quoted post[/post]​
[/quote]

Yeah, people do that. But getting back to the point, Cale, how are you doing? Did you have that talk yet? How does it feel, if you did? If not yet, then good luck. Rooting for you.
 

Cale

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Originally posted by mistergrasso@Jan 19 2005, 09:37 PM
Yeah, people do that. But getting back to the point, Cale, how are you doing? Did you have that talk yet? How does it feel, if you did? If not yet, then good luck. Rooting for you.
[post=275792]Quoted post[/post]​

I&#39;m kind of ashamed to say it, but I haven&#39;t yet. Apparently I still have some courage to work up -- but it&#39;s working up all right. It&#39;s been building up pressure on me exponentially every day that I&#39;ve been with her, so much that I&#39;ve almost gotten to the point of crying to myself.

It&#39;s really not a question of "if" anymore, but "when". I think it will be very soon. One of the biggest things holding me back is the fear of making her cry, but I keep reminding myself that it will only be worse the longer I wait.

Then, after that, I&#39;ll have the issue of coming out to contend with -- but I don&#39;t think anyone will be hurt if I take my own sweet time doing that.

Thanks for the further insight from everyone -- especially to headbang, whose comments I was specifically hoping for when I started this thread.

I have to say, as tempting as the prospect of going to the bathhouse is, I am starting to think that I might get more out of losing my virginity to someone I know and can trust...when I know I&#39;m ready for it and won&#39;t be ashamed of the consequences. Right now, I&#39;m just not sure I wouldn&#39;t feel like shit the morning after a "night on the town". But maybe I&#39;ll be ready sooner than I think.

Mostly I&#39;m worried about coming out. I know it will be hard...hopefully not as hard as I imagine. But I worry that I will lose everything that I hold dear -- my friends, my family, and even my dignity. I have enjoyed living in my own self-delusion that I will be able to grow up and get married to a pretty woman, have kids, and earn the respect of my family. Now I am preparing myself for possibly dating other men, and becoming the "weird little brother" that my siblings will never want to invite over to visit anymore, because what they&#39;d always suspected was true.

But, again...it&#39;s not really a question of "if", but "when".

I will start a new thread as soon as I break the news to my girlfriend. If you don&#39;t hear from me in a week or two, feel free to nag me and remind me why this is so important.
 

jonb

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Yeah, losing your virginity is better if it&#39;s someone you&#39;re close with. Short of rape, anonymous sex is the worst way to lose your virginity.

It&#39;s good to know you&#39;re planning on coming out; here&#39;s to that guy waiting for you, and to the hope that you and your beard can remain friends.
 

Freddie53

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Originally posted by Cale+Jan 20 2005, 10:24 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Cale &#064; Jan 20 2005, 10:24 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-mistergrasso@Jan 19 2005, 09:37 PM
[post=275792]Quoted post[/post]​

[post=276115]Quoted post[/post]​
[/b][/quote]
Cale, my thoughts and prayers go out to you. First of all, honesty doesn&#39;t demand that you tell everything you know.

You owe your girlfriend an explanation. But you don&#39;t have to tell why you are not attracted to her as a mate for life. If we had to do that, then the gorgeous models would spend hours on end talking to every person who thought they were sezzy.

You do need to tell her that she is and name some good qualities. Then let her know that she just isn&#39;t someone that you wish to spend the rest of your life with. If she point blank asks if you are gay, you can tell her that you need to explore your sexuality. I am just saying that you can break up with her without revealing that you plan to completely enter the gay world.

I would wait on announcing to the world that you are gay until you have found the right guy and had a wonderful sexual experience. That is the time I would come out of the closet. Right now you are exploring. You might decide that the gay world is not for you. If you have already come out. You will be out no matter which girl you marry and how wonderful that marriage is.

Sexuality is complicated. I am just suggesting that you explore it, find a mate, have gay sex before you come out of the closet to the world.

And what you tell your girl friend may be broadcast everywhere. There are ways of being totally honest without revealing that you are attracted to men. The point she needs to know is that you like her, and love her, but you just don&#39;t want to be a couple. That is all a straight guy would tell at this point. He would say that he wants to explore other relationships. Well you can say the same thing. You don&#39;t have to give a physical and gender description. Straight guys don&#39;t when they break up.

Just consider that you may need some time away from this relationship and time to explore the gay world some before you publically announce your sexual orientation.

If you are the least bit Bisexual, that orientation attraction can flip flop on you.

I agree that you should lose your virginity to someone that is special. Not in osme bathhouse or prostitution situation. That is not a way to enter the gay world.

Good luck to you. Consider what I have said. Do what you think is right.

Freddie
 

DadsAreUs

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Originally posted by Freddie53+Jan 21 2005, 02:29 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Freddie53 &#064; Jan 21 2005, 02:29 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Originally posted by Cale@Jan 20 2005, 10:24 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-mistergrasso
@Jan 19 2005, 09:37 PM
[post=275792]Quoted post[/post]​


[post=276115]Quoted post[/post]​
Cale, my thoughts and prayers go out to you. First of all, honesty doesn&#39;t demand that you tell everything you know.

You owe your girlfriend an explanation. But you don&#39;t have to tell why you are not attracted to her as a mate for life. If we had to do that, then the gorgeous models would spend hours on end talking to every person who thought they were sezzy.

You do need to tell her that she is and name some good qualities. Then let her know that she just isn&#39;t someone that you wish to spend the rest of your life with. If she point blank asks if you are gay, you can tell her that you need to explore your sexuality. I am just saying that you can break up with her without revealing that you plan to completely enter the gay world.

I would wait on announcing to the world that you are gay until you have found the right guy and had a wonderful sexual experience. That is the time I would come out of the closet. Right now you are exploring. You might decide that the gay world is not for you. If you have already come out. You will be out no matter which girl you marry and how wonderful that marriage is.

Sexuality is complicated. I am just suggesting that you explore it, find a mate, have gay sex before you come out of the closet to the world.

And what you tell your girl friend may be broadcast everywhere. There are ways of being totally honest without revealing that you are attracted to men. The point she needs to know is that you like her, and love her, but you just don&#39;t want to be a couple. That is all a straight guy would tell at this point. He would say that he wants to explore other relationships. Well you can say the same thing. You don&#39;t have to give a physical and gender description. Straight guys don&#39;t when they break up.

Just consider that you may need some time away from this relationship and time to explore the gay world some before you publically announce your sexual orientation.

If you are the least bit Bisexual, that orientation attraction can flip flop on you.

I agree that you should lose your virginity to someone that is special. Not in osme bathhouse or prostitution situation. That is not a way to enter the gay world.

Good luck to you. Consider what I have said. Do what you think is right.

Freddie
[post=276210]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

Well, in the spirit of honest and freewheeling debate, I think I have to disagree with the advice Freddie has given here. The overall theme seems to be remaining closeted as long as possible, with the main rational holding out for a shred of bisexuality. Cale is on the verge of a level of personal honesty that he has ever known and I don&#39;t think he should temper that out of fear, embarrassment or any other negative emotion. Finding the right man from the protection of the closet is an incredibly difficult thing to do. Not to say that he has to tell everyone in the street what&#39;s going on with him, but I think there is no need to delay the inevitable and in fact, coming out is the first step toward moving on with an adult life not oriented just around sexuality.

Also, breaking up with this girl without coming out can produce two negative results, Freddie, that you aren&#39;t counting on. First, she will be incredibly hurt because she is being dumped. Is she unattractive? Unlikeable? Boring? Does her breath smell? She will wonder what is wrong with her. And this hurt can turn to anger which will most likely lead to lashing out to third parties. And since many people probably already suspect that Cale is gay, they will talk about this as soomething that he is either ashamed of and can&#39;t come to grips with or so deluded about he doesn&#39;t even recognize. That is how gossip works. When people think that someone is gay and ashamed about it or in denial, the gossip can be much more cruel than when someone comes out of the closet. Then, gossipers run the risk of being labeled biggots or mean-spirited.

Sorry, Cale for the public dissent by near total strangers about your best interest. I am suddenly reminded of James Dean in "Rebel" shouting at his parents "YOU&#39;RE TEARING ME APART&#33;"
So, Freddie, which one of us gets to be Jim Baccus?
 

Cale

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Originally posted by mistergrasso@Jan 21 2005, 09:35 AM
Sorry, Cale for the public dissent by near total strangers about your best interest.  I am suddenly reminded of James Dean in "Rebel" shouting at his parents "YOU&#39;RE TEARING ME APART&#33;" 
[post=276223]Quoted post[/post]​

No, don&#39;t be sorry -- I wouldn&#39;t want it any other way. You guys are awesome. You both bring up good, valid points that I&#39;m going to have to think hard about before I decide how to best end our relationship.

I think Freddie did not mean to imply that I would stay 100% closeted while exploring same-sex relationships. What I got was that he meant staying closeted to my family and friends until I have really experienced that "side of the coin". True, I&#39;m pretty damn sure I&#39;m not bisexual, but how can I really know when all of my gay experiences have only been fantasies during masturbation experiences? It&#39;s like the scientific method -- I have to have measurable results before I can postulate a theory. :)

But then, on the other hand...grasso is right about the gossip. My girlfriend lives in a dorm populated mostly by gossipy college girls. For weeks they nagged her everytime I left her dormroom that we still hadn&#39;t "kissed" or "made things official". If we break up and they get even the slightest hint that it&#39;s because I&#39;m questioning my sexuality, I do fear the results would be less than desireable.

But why would the gossip be any less worse if I was a confident, openly gay man?

Gragh. So confusing.

Really though, this is all pretty minor compared to the inevitable "Coming Out of Cale" that I have forseen. Ending my relationship with the gal, one way or another, is just a little bump in the road of the eventual journey I will have to face. And THAT is what I&#39;m concerned the most about right now.

I wish I could have the confidence to say that I don&#39;t care what other people think about me, or how I am treated. But I do care. A lot.

I think coming out to my friends and community would not be a big deal, thanks to the liberal-minded atmosphere of this college city. My very heterosexual roommate might kick me out of the house, but I can live somewhere else.

What I fear the most are the reactions of my family members -- namely my older siblings, who have already expressed a distaste for homosexuals and subtly made clear their suspicions about my sexual orientation. I can see in their eyes that they would not be happy if I came out. Sure, they&#39;d still *love* me or whatever, just like the fundamendalist Christians say that "God loves gay people, just like he loves rapists, murderers and peodophiles." But dinner table conversations would be filled with awkward silences and glances around the table at me, and...I know things just wouldn&#39;t be the same.

....*sigh*.

On a related note, seeing shit like this in the news headlines isn&#39;t the least bit encouraging, especially when you consider that Focus on the Family is headquartered in the hometown where I grew up.
 

madame_zora

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Cale, that is some psychotic shit, alright. When the fundies start questioning the sexuality of cartoon characters, they&#39;re really hard up for hobbies.

The truth of the matter is that things will change for you when you come out, particualrly with your family and friends. If this were not true, you wouldn&#39;t be dreading it as much as you are. You know them better than anyone, and from what you describe, there is no reason to believe they&#39;ll take it gracefully. I wish that this was a thing of the past and that coming out was no big deal, but it often is.
There is no way to know for sure how it will affect your relationships until it happens, so I think it&#39;s good to prepare yourself for all the possible outcomes. I will give you encouragement in this way though. My daughter&#39;s girlfriend, and her current male roommate both had to come out to very unreceptive parents, and they were not received well, but in both instances the parents came around in a matter of months, and are getting along better now than they did before. Especially in the case of the guy, I was not expecting this, as his mother is a fundie, but I guess she finally realised that having a gay son was preferable to having a very depressed son, which he was when he was in the closet. I will wish this kind of reaction for you too, that your family will come to accept who you are, even if it is not what they would have chosen. In the end, you might grow closer from having to approach something of such importance. My heart goes out to you, but remember that nothing of real value can ever be had easily. You will do what&#39;s right for you when the time comes. Until then, I hope you find a way to break it off with this girl with a minimum of hurt to her, and yourself. *big hugs* Jana
 

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Originally posted by Cale@Jan 21 2005, 07:53 PM


But then, on the other hand...grasso is right about the gossip. My girlfriend lives in a dorm populated mostly by gossipy college girls. For weeks they nagged her everytime I left her dormroom that we still hadn&#39;t "kissed" or "made things official". If we break up and they get even the slightest hint that it&#39;s because I&#39;m questioning my sexuality, I do fear the results would be less than desireable.

But why would the gossip be any less worse if I was a confident, openly gay man?

I think coming out to my friends and community would not be a big deal, thanks to the liberal-minded atmosphere of this college city. My very heterosexual roommate might kick me out of the house, but I can live somewhere else.

What I fear the most are the reactions of my family members -- namely my older siblings, who have already expressed a distaste for homosexuals and subtly made clear their suspicions about my sexual orientation. I can see in their eyes that they would not be happy if I came out. Sure, they&#39;d still *love* me or whatever, just like the fundamendalist Christians say that "God loves gay people, just like he loves rapists, murderers and peodophiles." But dinner table conversations would be filled with awkward silences and glances around the table at me, and...I know things just wouldn&#39;t be the same.


Dear Cale,


The gossip will be less cruel if you own your identity rather than have one assigned to you. That is, if you say you are gay, then anyone who makes fun of you is a biggot. If you remain closeted, then people will assume a certain amount of cluelessness or self-denial, which is usually the focal point of gossip about a gay person. To illustrate with some hypotheticals, if you told your girlfirend that you are gay, she will likely be sympathetic, hurt but ultimately relieved for both. She must sense something amiss in your relationship and anytime that she doesn&#39;t spend thinking that its you she&#39;s spending thinking that its her. So then, maybe she will tell her best friend and ask that she doesn&#39;t spread it around, out of fairness to you. but if you simply say, this isn&#39;t working out, she will invariably end up sitting around with a group of friends ragging on you to make her feel better. They will begin to speculate that you&#39;re gay and then they will assume that that&#39;s the case and you just can&#39;t deal. "God, who does he think he&#39;s fooling, accept maybe himself."

Or look at the way gossip about celebrities (Ellen DeGeneris, Elton John, David Geffen, Rosie O&#39;Donnel) changes when they go from being closeted to being out. Suddenly, what was a dirty little secret to snicker about is out in the open. Now the gossip is about who&#39;s she dating, marital spats, adoption, vacations, etc, just like for straight celebrities. But when they stay in the closet (Kevin Spacey) the gossip is cruel and mean-spirited.

As far as roomates go, I was thrown out of a house when I was in college and the guy who did it was ostricized. And things were not nerely so open then. I even wrote a song about him and played it with my band.

Yeah, it does sound like things might be rough going with your sisters, but since they obvioulsy know anyhow you will only be caussing them to express their feelings for you to your face rather than behind your back, which they are already doing, I assure you. And, as in the example given by Madame Zora, that sort of shit very often doesn&#39;t last nearly as long as you thought it would. When people have to deal with it as something real instead of speculative, love and family bonds almost always kick in.
 

jonb

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Freddie:
It&#39;s very hard to find a loving partner from the protection of the closet. Notice all the ex-gays who are found in bath houses. Actually, once you get rid of the fundies, you&#39;ll find people are generally supportive of you coming out. With fundies, coming out becomes a very cathartic experience.

Jana and Cale:
Whenever people start to seriously say cartoon characters are gay, they&#39;re insane. But these are the same people who think abortion&#39;s a gay issue, even though homosexuality prevents abortions. If it helps, Focus on the Family seems to have problems with the American Psychiatric Association; usually, the people who have a problem with the APA are themselves crazy.

I just wish fundies wouldn&#39;t be so disingenuous; I&#39;m pretty sure Matthew Shepard and Fred Martinez hadn&#39;t really done much yet.

For the record, both sponges and starfish reproduce either asexually or by free-spawning, so neither can be gay.

Cale alone:
Some of your family and certainly your friends might already know, especially from the way you&#39;ve described how slow your relationship went.

There are support groups for the friends and family of homosexuals; PFLAG&#39;s a good example.