England about to become 'Smoke Free'

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by dong20, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. dong20

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    Legislation comes into force in a couple of weeks in England which effectively bans smoking in all public enclosed spaces.

    Smokefree England - all about the smokefree legislation on 1st July 2007

    Equivalant already exists in Scotland and many other nations have their own anti-smoking legislation (of varying forms and degrees) too of course, but I don't have a clear idea of either the details feelings about the issue other than a 'general' support, though as a non smoker I'm undoubtably biased.

    Anyone care to elaborate?
     
  2. Pecker

    Pecker Retired Moderator
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    Can you still smoke in a tobacconist's shoppe?
     
  3. dong20

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    If it's a public shoppe then nay.
     
  4. Beanie

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    you can smoke in any palces where it is enclosed and public, the only real places where you can smoke now is if you look up and there is no roof (and that not always a correct) and your own house thats about it.
     
  5. SteveHd

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    Florida did that some years ago. I love it. Despite what many business leagues said, the sky didn't fall.
     
  6. Mr. Snakey

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    I was having a drink with Prince Charles and the Queen. When Winston Churchill stepped into my dreams. His voice was heavy his hands were shakin'. He said look what they have done its the death of a nation - Ian Hunter Death of a nation
     
  7. SpeedoGuy

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    Indeed. Some businesses actually experienced a rise in patronage following a tobacco ban.

    As popular as smoking seems to be in the Isles and on the continent, I never thought such bans would be possible in Europe.

    I despise tobacco smoke, its stink and its carcinogens and I don't have much sympathy for smokers per se. Despite that, I have mixed feelings about smoking bans in private restaurants and taverns on principle. I continue to believe businesses should be allowed to cater to paying customers who may choose an unhealthy, but still legal, pastime such as smoking. Those consumers and workers who don't like cigarette smoke have always been free to vote with their feet and go elsewhere, as I do.

    I fear that such bans may someday extend to those who wish to consume alcohol, red meat, sugar, greasy chinese food, etc or other arguably unhealthy foodstuffs. All of these can have direct or indirect adverse effects on other consumers although not quite as dramatic as second hand smoke.
     
  8. SpoiledPrincess

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    We pay an inordinate amount of tax to carry on our habit, and we deserve separate smoking sections, I quite understand non smokers wanting to drink/eat etc in a smoke free atmosphere but we have rights too. It's the thin end of the wedge, pretty soon England will be limiting the amount you can drink and after that it'll be overweight people.
     
  9. SteveHd

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    That's interesting ... I didn't know that. *At this time I'm not going to mention how long I've lived in the state.*
    I'll have to draw the line at red meat. I tried giving that up and couldn't.:biggrin1: Oh, and sugar has stay, aspartame gives me a headache.
     
  10. SteveHd

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    SpoiledPrincess, Florida law allows smoking in a lounge if there's separate rooms with separate ventilation.

    About the slippery slope you're concerned about: The county here is discussing a smoking ban at the beaches! They're serious. I don't remember if the decision is final but last I read it was a 'go'. Even I have to say: that's too far.
     
  11. B_HappyHammer1977

    B_HappyHammer1977 New Member

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    The ban has primarily been allowed to go through on the grounds that it is already illegal to smoke in an enclosed place of business, for the sake of workers health, under health and safety law. That has been the case for most businesses for a number of years now. The fact that pubs/clubs etc have not had these santions until now is more of a loop-hole being tied up than a new law. Statements like; "people can vote with their feet and go work elsewhere" is somewhat insulting to thise who want to work in a bar, for example, but don't want smoke in their faces. Would you really just leave your job because people are smoking around you? Basically it will end up being a good thing for all; I saw a report on the news just today stating that pubs and clubs in Egland alone have spent £100,000,000 in the last year building new smoking areas outside. This will encourage non-smokers to come to these places that they may have previously avoided and give the coughing brigade somewhere relatively comfotable to go.


    Edit; And besides which, most non-smokers are going to go outside with their smoking friends becasue "it's quite nice out here, with the canopy and heaters and the view..."
     
  12. SpoiledPrincess

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    It's not a good thing for smokers, we enjoy a drink and a smoke and we pay through the nose. when the government want to impose all these sanctions on us they should stop taking our taxes.
     
  13. Mr. Snakey

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  14. dong20

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    I understand. It's self interest on both sides; smokers feel their rights are being curtailed, they are, but before this ban so were those of non-smokers. In brutal terms; smokers do so voluntarily, and appear happy, or at least indifferent to create and be in an environment laced with potential carcinogens. Non smokers must breathe and yet were forced to do so in such an environment. That seems unbalanced to me. This ban seeks to even out that inbalance.

    But for non smokers it's not only a potential health risk, it makes clothes, hair etc smell, it spoils the taste of food and makes for a generally unpleasant experience. The issue with smoking (in this context) is that it's invasive, if it was just self destructive to the smoker and didn't affect others, it would be a non issue, obviously.

    If wanting to breathe air that isn't laced with potential carcinogens, very real smoke and not come home stinking like an ashtray overrides a smoker's right to smoke, I'll live with that but it's not personal in that sense.

    Would smokers support a ban on teachers smoking in a class of toddlers? Ask why that is and then extrapolate that concept, it's that simple.

    As for the tax, what's the problem? You continue to smoke cigarettes you continue to pay tax on them, what changes? Why should you get a refund? I don't get one for not smoking and thus reducing my burden on the NHS.

    If you think about it the loss of tobacco tax revenue will result in extra taxes to compensate. These will likely affect smokers and non smokers alike. So yes, overall smokers may pay more but it's their choice to smoke, as it's non smokers right not to forcibly share that habit second hand, bearing in mind I will probably cost the NHS far less in my lifetime that seems reasonable to me.

    The same things were said about duty free here when it was abolished. Prices and business are now both better than ever.

    Seems a step too far to me too. Banning 'unhealthy' activties is too close to the nanny state. I'm in favour of bans that protect people from the direct results of those activities if that applies, such as smoking and drunkeness when it leads to violence and RTAs.
     
  15. dong20

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  16. SpeedoGuy

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    Its not meant to be an insult, rather, its a suggestion that contentment may lie elsewhere.

    I certainly sympathize with employees who work inside smoking establishments. Their plight poses a thorny question and that's part of the reason why I have mixed feelings about such bans. On one hand, health hazards should certainly be minimized on the job. One the other hand, there are unavoidable consequences workers choose to face when they accept certains jobs.

    Example: I enjoyed my previous job forecasting weather but the midnight shifts and holidays I was frequently forced to work were very bad for my emotional and physical health. Very bad. I hated it but I chose to continue until I finally decided the drawbacks of that job outweighed the benefits and I sought work elsewhere. It didn't occur to me to try to outlaw night work shifts.


    Emphatically, yes. I have. That's how much cigarette smoke bothers me.
     
  17. dong20

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    Maybe, in some pubs but overall the evidence suggests otherwise. I'd support smokers pubs where non smokers had to sign waivers on entrance, but somehow I doubt it would catch on.

    If people want to smoke that's their choice, but I should have the choice not to share their habit against my will. That seems fair to me. I appreciate it must be hard not to light up if one is addicted but is it fair that someone's voluntary habit becomes another's health concern?
     
  18. SpoiledPrincess

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    I'd quite like as a non driver not to be subjected to car fumes, so what rights do I have now not to breathe in other peoples car fumes.
     
  19. SteveHd

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    If the cars are indoors then, yeah, that would be a problem.
     
  20. Freddie53

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    Too much salt ruins the dish.

    The solution to inside smoking can be simple.

    1. Ban smoiking in all public buildings except in areas where ventilation can be controlled and certain rooms can allow smoking.

    2. Provide outside smoking areas on public property that has enough open space to accomdate it.

    3. All places that serve any food or drink have to register their staus and recongizable symobls be on the front of the door.

    Status One: Smoke Free

    Status Two; Smoking areas and non smoking areas using same vintilatoin systems

    Status Three: Smoking areas and non smoking areas have separate ventilation systems and non smokers don't have to enter the smoking areas for access to their area or restrooms etc.

    Status Four: Smoking allowed. I would suggest a no children under a certain age. This would primarily be for taverns, pubs etc.

    If very recognizable logos are used, then this should work.

    We have to remember that some people are so allergic to cig. smoke that it coulud be fatal if they inhale tobacco smoke.
     
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