England...

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Rugbypup, Aug 7, 2007.

  1. Rugbypup

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    I have a question for fellow poms and any jolly forigners who would like to contribute...

    Do you feel the tolorence of people in the UK has becaome less and less over the last decade?

    Do you feel you have in anyway 'lost out' through the UK being ever more tolorent as a general society, have we been tolorent enough, is our society begining to suffer for the sake of tolorence?

    or

    Do you feel the UK has a long way to go in developing more tolorence, do we need to learn to be more welcoming and accepting as a people?
     
  2. Drifterwood

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    Tolerance is a two way street.

    It's probably not unfair to say that some people who have come to the UK have little intention of either integrating or tolerating. Driven by some xenophobic elements in the media, I am sure that some Brits are now less tolerant.
     
  3. D_Humper E Bogart

    D_Humper E Bogart New Member

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    Agreed with Drifter. Some people are far too comfortable and any change sends them riling. I love how people come up with the "GET RID OF THE IMMIGRANTS" line and of course, I'm only a 2nd Gen. model!

    Oh wait, so only get rid of the Albanian immigrants? Like your bus driver or nurse?

    I think the media just riles the stupid.
     
  4. SomeGuyOverThere

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    As far as I'm are the UK is one of the most tolerant places in the world both legally and in society.

    I mean we don't even have a proper right wing party any more. We have 3 centre ground parties and extremeists way to the right and left. I think the fact that we in overwhelming numbers vote for such liberal, centre ground parties shows that as a nation where very liberal people who aren't worried too much about things like immigration and security.

    There is however, still plenty of discrimination to go around, through ignorance and social deprivation.

    I don't think you could say in any way that we have become "less tolerant" over the last decade. The UK is on a one way trip to further tollerance for all minorities, a path that was started on even before we lost our Empire.

    What I think we've seen however, is the imergance of a sort of event horizon. We can see the day coming where everyone is equal in law and society, but the ignorant are banding together to form parties like the BNP and UKIP to try desperatly to halt the onset of total tolerance.

    I think in the past, a bit of bigotry was sort of a given, but now it's becomeing totally unexceptable in the eyes of society, some people who want to promote intolerance are, as i said, banding together and finding a voice, which is why it appears we've become less tolerant.

    I think what's actually happened is the polar opposite - we've become so tollerant that the intollerant people are having to try and make a stand against the majoirty opinion. Hence the formation of these very right wing parties.

    There is a conflicting issue though that I'm worried about and that's the eroding of British society and culture because we've flung the door a bit too wide. I'm very critical o the unofficial minoirty courts we have had spring up handing out tribal or religious law. People who come here should learn our language, live by our rules and become Brittish. I'm not saying immigration is bad, and i'm not racist, but I fully beleive that if you come around to live in our house you have to live by our rules.
     
  5. SpoiledPrincess

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    We tolerate too much and the call for tolerance is only applied to the majority, our freedom of speech has been so eroded that if someone we perceive as belonging to a minority is rude to us or impinges on our rights in some way we keep out mouths shut as anything we say can be interpreted as racist.
     
  6. Rugbypup

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    Do you feel there is or has been an infringment on the indiginouse population of the UK?

    I use the term indiginouse to refer to the populas with at least one parent with pre 1900 UK ancestry.
     
  7. deepwader

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    The Jews who came to the UK in the 19th century integrated in society - to the point where the ultra orthodox now complan that they have become indistnguishable. Good.

    Teh Poles, Ukranians etc whi came as post-1945 refugees integrated and showed touching gratitude for the reception their were given. I went to school with their sons - there were two Joswicks and a Jankowski in my class. I don't recall the slightest friction, let alone intolerance, as a result of their parentage. And its not about colour: at the grammar school I attended there were boys of Indian, Pakistani and West Indian descent whose parents saw to it that they were perfectly turned out in their uniforms and I remember them as models of good behaviour, politeness and hard work. I am not aware that there were any racial gibes or remarks.

    But now in the UK there is a vocal minority which not only does not want to integrate in British society, but wants to overthrow it. Who can be blamed for being intolerant of that?

    Today's news is that the UK government is to beg for the release of 5 men - not British citizens, but "residents" granted refugee status or exceptional right to remain in the UK - from Guantanamo. Surely rather than asking the USA to set these people free, we should be asking about the circumstances of their arrest, with a view to revoking their residency. After all, they were not arrested on the streets of Birmingham, Colchester or where ever else they find it convenient to call their home: they were taken prisoner in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan and ought at least to explain what exactly they were doing there.
     
  8. SpoiledPrincess

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    I do feel it's an infringment of our rights, if someone wants to live in Britain they should learn our language and our ways instead of wanting special cases made for them. They're over here for the benefits that Britain can give them yet they want to partake of all these benefits without integrating into the society that shelters them, we're walking on egg shells not to offend them to the stage where if someone who is obviously a recent addition to this country does something offensive we bite our tongues (example, a Muslim woman in the long queue in front of me recently arrived at the counter only to decide she wanted another look around before making her purchase, as the assistant had already started tilling up the people in the queue were kept waiting, there was a lot of tutting but no one complained out loud, if she'd hadn't clearly been a Muslim I for one would have complained). Speaking the truth isn't racist but we're not allowed to do that anymore, we have to put up with being told that British customs are inherently racist and offensive and that we do not have the same legal recourse to have our way of life upheld that incomers to this country have to having their cultures and traditions respected despite being in a country where those cultures and traditions often conflict with outs.
    People will probably think oh racist bitch, but it's gone too far over the other way. People are scared to say that Islam is a problem, but the whole world has had to change the way we act because of Islam, how can it not be a problem?
     
  9. ManlyBanisters

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    Answering no one inparticular can I just make the follwing point:

    Britain was a world power - an Empire - the British spent 100+ years colonising various parts of the globe and banging on to the locals about how Britain was the greatest and blah blah blah - mother England, flap doodle rant - right?

    Why are you all so damned surprised that it has become a tradition in many of your excolonies to move to England - that green and sceptred isle? And - seeing as your country, in the name of your ancestors, raped the natural resources and peoples (methaphorocally speaking) do you not think you owe them? It is so much to let them come and sweep your roads, clean your loos, drive your taxis and make your country not grind to a halt?

    And while I'm on one - when the British were off yomping around the world claiming to 'own' such a vast chunk of the globe that the sun never set on it - did all those colonial staff learn the local languages and customs. I'm sure some did - look at Kipling just as one example - but all of them? No - they didn't.

    Two words some up the whinging of British poeple in relation to immigration

    DOUBLE STANDARDS!!

    Pay your debt to the world before you start whining!
    [rant off]
     
  10. SpoiledPrincess

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    The past is the past Manly, the British could moan about wanting reparation from Italy for the Roman conquest of Britain. Anyone whose ancestors were tortured by the Spanish Inquisition would have a case against them for that. You can't hold us responsible for the shortcomings of our forefathers.
     
  11. ManlyBanisters

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    The past is not the past - Britain still holds influence in many ex-colonies, still attempts to keep it's controling hands in it many former pies. Britain, or specifically England, has not paid its debt for the pillage of vast chunks of the planet. Britain put Mugabe in power - he is still there fucking his own country - just one example.

    Italy is neither Caesar's Rome nor the Holy Roman Empire - bad analogy.

    Britain is still Britain - England still England.

    I want my fucking money back!
     
  12. SpoiledPrincess

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    Britain holds influence in many ex British colonies as do most countries in any country which was a colony of theirs. Italy isn't Caesar's Rome but neither is Britain Elizabeth I's England. Would you compensate someone from whom your grandfather had stolen something?
     
  13. ManlyBanisters

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    Another bad analogy - 15th centuary crimes do not equte to 19th centuary crimes. Nowhere close.

    Can I have the 6 counties back now?

    Can the partition of India / Pakistan be redone reasonably so there is less bloodshed?

    Can the Argentinias have Las Malvinas back now?

    Can Spain have Gilbralta back now so the Brits can't spy on everything the moves in and out of the Med?

    Do you want me to continue?
     
  14. ManlyBanisters

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    I'm talking Victoria - not Elizabeth - Elizabeth was never an Empress
     
  15. SpoiledPrincess

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    No you can't have them back, we stole them fair and square.

    There is a fair proportion of the land's surface that was stolen from it's indigent population - the USA, the UK, Australia, do you suggest it's all given back? When it was stolen doesn't make any difference, whether the 15th century or the 19th century.

    Elizabeth was queen when most of the West Indies was stolen.
     
  16. ManlyBanisters

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    At least you are honest.

    And I really don't want the 6 counties back - they cost far too much to subsidise - I'm happy for your taxes to carry on paying for that. :tongue:

    Yes - you have a point - but in stealing something and claiming it for your own you get the responsibility of the thing also. You want to lose the immigrants - sorry, I believe you owe them.
     
  17. deepwader

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    Whilst I agree with you, Manly, that what has become of Rhodesia is a tragedy, and that its native population were far better off under British colonial rule, I don't think Britain put Mugabe in power. Britain put Ian Smith OUT of power; the Prime Minister of the interim government that took over was Bishop Abel Muzorewa. Mugabe won the ensuing general election. That's democracy for you.

    As to Ireland... the six counties voted themselves out of Eire in the plebiscite fixed by the 1921 treaty signed by Michael Collins and only later repudiated by de Valera. I don't think that's theft.
     
  18. ManlyBanisters

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    The Mugabe situation was created and engineered. I agree, it was indirect - but the way the colony was retracted was a big part of bringing a player like Mugabe in. Democracy? Ha! Do you believe everything you read in the Telegraph.

    6 counties - Sorry guy, do not spout at me about the so-called vote over the six counties - Churchill arse raped Collins over that deal - Collins had no bloody choice. He even knew he was causing a civil war in Ireland when he signed and still he signed - does that sound like a man with a choice? - And of course the majority Unionist population across those counties elected to stay in the union in that pharce. Don't tell me that set up was fair. Northern Ireland - birthplace of Gerrymandering. Quelle surprise! And the theft occured many, many years before 1921 - so don't give me that shit either. If you are going to try to defend England's treatment of the Irish as fair and just to me you are going to have a long fucking night, sunshine.
     
  19. Drifterwood

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    I am still waiting for the thieving Saxon bastards to give me England back.
     
  20. London_Calling

    London_Calling New Member

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    Manly, didn't I read in one of your other posts that you lived in our theiving country for a while?
     
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