english-polish relations....

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Andreas Sukov, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    ive spent the last few days on a building site with two polish guys and a few english guys, and from this and previous conversations, some english resent the polish being here and working, most however dont seem to mind. i wonder is it the same there? i would ask the polish guys but i think saying "do you hate us as much as we hate you?" is the way to go about it and i thought it would be an intersting thing on here.
     
  2. D_Ted Riding Hooded

    D_Ted Riding Hooded New Member

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    I can only comment on what I've seen in England too. (The places I've worked at, places friends/family have worked at in Wolvo..ie Goodyear tyres, Lucus, Every Ready, BOC, Yale, etc, most of which are no longer there.) I have to say the Poles who came after WWII are the hardest working, kindest people you could wish to meet! A couple of my best friends at school were of Polish descent.

    The ones who've come over in the last five years, washing cars for £2 are not...'IMO'
     
  3. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I love the Polish :rolleyes:
     
  4. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    the two at our place are from the recnt wave but they work bloody hard. yesterday one did three shifts. 8 till 3. 6 till 11 and 12 till 2 i think, not so sure on the last one.
     
  5. B_Artful Dodger

    B_Artful Dodger New Member

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    The Polish lads I know are awesome and if they wanna come over and do some work then fair play to 'em.
     
  6. Rugbypup

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    The English are under an identity crisis at present.

    What is it to be English and what rights does that entitle you to in England?

    Sadly, very little to nothing any more.

    This results in a hostility to other nationalities in your country. If you're finding it hard to survive in your own country despite working hard and being above board, it's easy to see how you would resent foreigners for being seemingly favoured, given help and exception by the government and the general system.

    And the ever growing prevalence and acceptance of chav culture, the removal of celebration of English customs like St. Georges day on racist grounds and bingo... one great recipe for identity crises for your average Joe.

    It's my fear that England is not far from a growing undercurrent of civil unrest. The more the national identity is repressed and forced to accommodate other customs and cultures above it's own, the greater the danger some nut from the BNP or such will gain the favour, even power... dare I say it, a civil war?

    England, the English identity is seemingly lost.

    Say what you like about the Americans, God's know we do, but they do have one great sense of national identity. All peoples in America have to swear allegiance to the country, there are some societies that are second and third generation born in England that do not consider them selves to be English because of it, favouring either religion as their nationality or the nationality of the forefathers. This is plain wrong to me.
     
    #6 Rugbypup, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  7. AG08

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    It's the same in Canada. Canadians bitch about the immigrants and migrant labourers taking jobs, yet Canadians won't do the jobs that they will do. They work extremely hard for low wages doing shit jobs that Canadians (myself included) wouldn't dream of doing. I don't begrudge anyone opportunity as long as they work hard, are honest and play by the rules.
     
  8. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    cival war? no. civil unrest? almost certainly. i like civil unrest, when for the right reasons. sadly like g20 it will be taken over by anarchists and racists but seeing as the normal measures such as voting dont work, imo, it seems the best. im not talking samshing things. but should it come to it. than yes. i actually get excited to see people so into politics. in the uk its rare, which is a shame.
     
  9. Jason

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    There are issues. Typically Poles come to the UK for 1 to 2 years with a view to going back home. They work hard, do any overtime offered, live cheap, don't have families here to support, and they save money. Basically their year or two in the UK is to give them a financial start for life in Poland.

    Very often they will undercut British workers on cost - and they can do this because they don't have the expenditure British workers have. Often they have skills British workers don't have. For starters they speak a foreign language. Often they have a trade. They have skills to offer Britain - and British workers rarely have skills to offer Poland, so in general you won't find Brits in Poland.

    Yes there are problems, and the recession doesn't help. Arguably we benefit from their labour, but at the price of increased UK unemployment and money moved from Britain to Poland.
     
  10. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    We have great Polish housecleaners..., very correct and trustfull
     
  11. hoolibubba

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    I would say the Polish who come to the uk, come here to work hard, unlike many of our residents, British underclasses scroungers could learn a lot from the Polish.
     
  12. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    I disagree that it may be so bad.

    I in 30 years of living cannot remember st, georges day so whatever it was that happened on that day cannot have been based on anything great. As far as i know of the four nations we only celebrate the irish st patricks day and that is principly because it involves plenty of alcohol.

    I don't blame foreigners for my struggles financially, i blame high bills and wasteful council spending of my taxes and costly perhaps unethical wars.

    Only bigots and xenophobes blame immigrants, if they want to come here to work and we have the jobs for them to do so then its fine.

    As for our identity being eroded i don't see it
    We have added new cultures to our own and i like that as am sure many people do, i really don't understand the need that some people feel that we must preserve culture, it surely defeats progression?
     
  13. Rugbypup

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    I meant in the worse case scenario.

    Civil unrest is a bad thing, for everyone one person that thinks a few ruffled feathers is OK there's one who thinks a few smashed shops and consequently livelihood is OK, then you get those who think a few dead foreigners is OK... it's a massive slippery dangerous slop to be thinking civil unrest is OK. Just because it's in England, doesn't mean it can't, hasn't or will not happen.

    Without seeming crass, with the whole of England's 2000 year history in mind, what is cerebrated that you would say is distinctly English? Not just one offs, but annually, that reflect the English identity?

    In New Zealand there is a government agency where if there is no New Zealanders 'able' to do the job advertised, only then can you employ a foreigner, I think England would benefit greatly from such a system.

    Preserving a culture and cultural identity are similar but different things. When the amalgamation of other principle cultures becomes your culture, though the cultures you integrate with retain their own identity without reciprocation, then what is your identity? Does it mean to be English, you pick and choose from other cultures what you might while yours is rejected?

    This seems another dangerous slippery slop to me. Do you know some schools in England have English as a second language only? Did you know the mayor of Slough at one point couldn't speak English at all? Did you know the introduction of sharea law to some parts of England was discussed? That some councillors feared Christmas in a Christian nation would cause such offence to it's ethic residence they wanted to rename it Wintersmass as not to be seen as offending other cultures?

    What are the English progressing towards? Whatever it is, they are doing it quietly and without objection, in my opinion.

    My fear is that while a multitude of cultures may reside in England, which does ultimately enrich a nations development, although not exactly harmoniously at times, the English will only be identified, in England, as your average Jeremy Kyle guest.

    I find that distressing.

    http://www.letsgetfreestuff.com/chav/chavs.jpg
     
    #13 Rugbypup, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  14. eurotop40

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    Yes, but this would be against the EU treaties. As a matter of fact, free capital, work and goods circulation is the basis of the EU treaties. And * LISTEN LISTEN " even Switzerland participates (so please no UK guy come up with "We should do like Switzerland etc..."). AND, exactly this has given Switzerland, since joining this agreement, a good economic growth!
     
  15. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    Chavs are a fringe culture and no bigger than skaters and greebs. The majority of youth fall into the 'townie' category who are at the mainstream. I don't see the attitudes of chavs which are looked down upon by most townies, skaters and greebs ever being able to influence society.

    So what is the new zealander identity?
     
    #15 B_mitchymo, Sep 8, 2009
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2009
  16. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    Lol that is good to hear.

    Why does'nt Switzerland join the Union? I don't know why Norway is'nt in it either.
     
  17. Reallyonlyme

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    The Poles that came over during WWII didn't have a choice about going back. Poles returning were treated as traitors who deserted their country by the soviet occupiers. Many were imprisoned. For the Poles WWII didn't really end until the 1980s.

    All the poles I know over here in UK work, and work hard. Many have come here purely for the better wages, to work their arses off for a few years, then head back to Poland to buy a plot of land and build a house with no mortgage hanging over them. I don't blame them one bit!
    Others might have come with that intention, but have now settled here.

    My ex-girlfriend is Polish, and the amount she worked, and the overtime she had to do basically killed our relationship. So their hard work ethic is not always a good thing!

    Back in Poland I have always found the Poles a very welcoming and generous people. Very friendly in social circles. Some of the larger cities have become a bit wary of the Brit stag party crowd who drink too much cheap vodka and cause trouble, but assuming you're not a gang of only men you shouldn't have any problem getting into clubs and bars.

    They also seem to get a great kick out of my attempts to speak Polish.
     
  18. Reallyonlyme

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    Kinda strange as Americans are all immigrants!

    I think the problem with have in the UK is they are constantly trying to tell us we're British, but we'd much rather be English, Welsh, Irish (northern) or Scottish!
    Then of course we pander to the immigrants here. Benefit forms in 101 languages, come on now, you want to take our social security money, learn to read/write the f***ing native language! Grrrrr!
     
  19. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    Two good points you make.
     
  20. B_cigarbabe

    B_cigarbabe New Member

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    Very well said! :biggrin1:
    C.B.:saevil:
     
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