Equal Rights To Be Topless In The Usa

liquiss

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My sister went to Spain when her 3 daughters we still in grade school and when they came back to the States, those girls couldn’t understand the obsession American boys had around breasts because in Europe they are often uncovered.

But that's the rub though, isn't it. At least in North America, breasts are sexual parts of a woman's body, because it's been ingrained into the culture that (public) nudity of any type is taboo and it's not done. I fully support the idea that if men can be topless in public than woman should be able to as well. I don't want to give the wrong impression. But the reality is that the vast majority of North American straight men are going to be excited to see breasts in public. I think the real question here is in regards to men's ability to control themselves and act within reason. That clearly - in many cases - tends to be a problem.

I think this is a hard debate to have, because I don't really think there's really anything comparable in scale for women when it comes to men's bodies. I'm the first guy to get in line for women's rights, and about treating women with respect, and about how we've over-sexualized the fuck out of women in our society. I agree with all of that. But I also know that as a straight man, I instinctively find breasts attractive and look at them. I'm not trying to be a pig, I'm not trying to be derogatory, and in this thread, I'm just trying to be honest.

I think equal rights on the topless front is important, and I think we have a lot of work to do to remove the silly "hang ups" we seem to have in NA about nudity. But until that fundamentally changes, sexualization of those "private" body parts is going to be hard to avoid.
 

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But I also know that as a straight man, I instinctively find breasts attractive and look at them. I'm not trying to be a pig, I'm not trying to be derogatory, and in this thread, I'm just trying to be honest.

I think equal rights on the topless front is important, and I think we have a lot of work to do to remove the silly "hang ups" we seem to have in NA about nudity. But until that fundamentally changes, sexualization of those "private" body parts is going to be hard to avoid.

This. I am all for top freedom and to be fair I also support casual nudity for both sexes in the appropriate contexts (eg most public beaches) if people are sensible about it. Nudity does not have to be sexual. Two experiences I had.

First, in Germany and Austria I went to a couple of spas where no clothing was permitted in the sauna area and the saunas were mixed sex. People of all ages and sexes (and I say sex not gender because while I could see one’s genitals, I had no idea what their gender was, nor did it matter) were just enjoying the experience without it feeling sexual in any way.

Second, on the Romanian seaside I visited a couple of resorts that cater to younger folk and there were areas on the beach where people were anywhere from fully clothed to fully naked. And the naked and half naked people were not lewd middle aged men stalking some tits and ass or craving attention, but people in their 20s enjoying the sea and the sun, including many quite attractive young ladies. There was seemingly nothing sexual about it outside my own mind. Speaking to a couple of locals, they told me that while nudity was technically illegal, no one policed it. Reason being that those two resorts were very popular with young people back in the communist days and being naked at the seaside was one of the few ways to flout an otherwise very oppressive regime. The custom remained and I imagine getting the police involved to ask people to dress up because some random prude might be offended would risk stirring tensions on political grounds.

However, I am British and the context I grew up in as well as the over sexualisation and objectification of the female body in most Western media makes it hard for me not to feel something sexual when I see a naked female. I am probably reasonably desensitised to breasts, as toplessness is common on European beaches, but still, if I see an attractive body I cannot help but look. Some of this is human nature - after all we also look at beautiful faces, but I feel most of it is just cultural.

As for the legal position on the matter, I am a libertarian when it comes to personal rights. Women should be able to be topless in any context it is deemed appropriate for a man to be bare chested. However, it might take some time in some places (and the US probably more so than in most other Western countries), before society will stop sexualising breasts. Whether we should advocate for more acceptance of bare breasts in general and condemn the objectification of the female body is a separate matter, which I feel can only be achieved through education, making the legal debate less important. Societal norms should drive legislation, not the other way around. Making it legal for women to bare their breasts in the US, while commendable, will not change people’s prejudices overnight.
 

DiamondJoe

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This. I am all for top freedom and to be fair I also support casual nudity for both sexes in the appropriate contexts (eg most public beaches) if people are sensible about it. Nudity does not have to be sexual. Two experiences I had.

First, in Germany and Austria I went to a couple of spas where no clothing was permitted in the sauna area and the saunas were mixed sex. People of all ages and sexes (and I say sex not gender because while I could see one’s genitals, I had no idea what their gender was, nor did it matter) were just enjoying the experience without it feeling sexual in any way.

Second, on the Romanian seaside I visited a couple of resorts that cater to younger folk and there were areas on the beach where people were anywhere from fully clothed to fully naked. And the naked and half naked people were not lewd middle aged men stalking some tits and ass or craving attention, but people in their 20s enjoying the sea and the sun, including many quite attractive young ladies. There was seemingly nothing sexual about it outside my own mind. Speaking to a couple of locals, they told me that while nudity was technically illegal, no one policed it. Reason being that those two resorts were very popular with young people back in the communist days and being naked at the seaside was one of the few ways to flout an otherwise very oppressive regime. The custom remained and I imagine getting the police involved to ask people to dress up because some random prude might be offended would risk stirring tensions on political grounds.

However, I am British and the context I grew up in as well as the over sexualisation and objectification of the female body in most Western media makes it hard for me not to feel something sexual when I see a naked female. I am probably reasonably desensitised to breasts, as toplessness is common on European beaches, but still, if I see an attractive body I cannot help but look. Some of this is human nature - after all we also look at beautiful faces, but I feel most of it is just cultural.

As for the legal position on the matter, I am a libertarian when it comes to personal rights. Women should be able to be topless in any context it is deemed appropriate for a man to be bare chested. However, it might take some time in some places (and the US probably more so than in most other Western countries), before society will stop sexualising breasts. Whether we should advocate for more acceptance of bare breasts in general and condemn the objectification of the female body is a separate matter, which I feel can only be achieved through education, making the legal debate less important. Societal norms should drive legislation, not the other way around. Making it legal for women to bare their breasts in the US, while commendable, will not change people’s prejudices overnight.
Intelligent observations, thanks :)
 

DiamondJoe

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My sister went to Spain when her 3 daughters we still in grade school and when they came back to the States, those girls couldn’t understand the obsession American boys had around breasts because in Europe they are often uncovered.
That's because males have some warped ideas of sexuality in the US it seems, and as I am discovering on this site.
 

MickeyLee

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*blink* No tittehs out in Burgerland cuz women must be protected from men. Because Burgerland males lack self control or any sense of accountability :mad:

Let my nipples see the sun. Make men wear a "correction" device in all public settings. By correction I mean shock. Device, I'm talking chastity.
 

Stu311

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FWIW, I saw a good deal of Brit men with screwy ideas about sex, too.

Of course. Men have screwy ideas about a lot of things everywhere. But my observation is that bare breasts seem to be less of a contentious issue in Europe and it is likely not because of what men think or not, but more likely because of cultural norms in general. I have seen the bare breasts of many of my female acquaintances and family in non-sexual contexts to the point that they are mostly just another body part. Women seem far less fazed about showing nipple over here. It does obviously reduce the sexuality of breasts. Does it eliminate it? Of course not. But then you also have men drooling over legs, feet or bums and women are not explicitly covering those for modesty in scenarios where they would otherwise be expected to cover their breasts - e.g. even a thong is far more acceptable than toplesness in the US. Point is, some men are pervs regardless of origin, and women should feel free and be allowed to wear (or not wear) whatever they want and certainly not be subjected to different standards than men. I also don’t want us to go down a slippery slope whereby certain body parts are offensive and others aren’t.