Europe ain't so great.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Wyldgusechaz, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Mainland Europeans and their health care system and exorbitant pensions are starving European higher education. No wonder Europe is in retreat.

    Thank goodness for America and Great Britain.

    Top 500 World Universities (1-100)

    I thought Europe was such a great place with their cradle to grave state run social structure. Turns out, they suck and its getting worse.

    No such thing as a free lunch.
     
  2. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    Excuse me, sta where you are if you don't like it, we are awesome! (btw UK is part of Europe...)
     
  3. Drifterwood

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    You may like to reconsider your comments, Goosey, given that my alma mater is the only one to score 100% for its Alumni. :biggrin1:
     
  4. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Europe is fun but is it relevant? Everyone always points to Europe as such a great society but yet they have only 2 of the top 40 colleges in the world. They should have about at the least 15-20. Funding for European colleges is falling, most are underfunded and that why they are rated so low.

    Should we in America emulate the European system and let our colleges rot so we have cradle-to-grave social protections? It is a serious question. None of the European countries can do both.

    Of course Pollyannas here will say of course we can do both but we can't. Looks like its a choice. What do we do?
     
  5. Jason

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    This is the nub of the issue. We all know that the UK is included by geographers within the continent of Europe, and we know that against the will of most of its population and in breach of pledges made by our politicians the UK is being forced towards a common European identity within the EU super-state. But in the hearts of most people in the UK the UK is NOT part of Europe. Rather the UK is a mid-Atlantic country, with as many or more links with say Canada and Australia as with Italy or Greece.

    When people in Britain see Europe unable to give a robust response to Russia's invasion of Georgia or see the damage of common agricultural and fishing policies, it just reinforces the view of many in Britain that we should leave the EU and conduct our own foreign and economic policy.

    THE UK IS NOT A PART OF EUROPE.
     
  6. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    Well I must tell you that our education here in Belgium is one of the best in the world... Our standards are higher then in the US. But yeah I have to agree that our level also is higher then most other European countries.
    I know you have Harvard etc, but in our country all schools have very high expectations, much higher then in the US, sorry if I offend someone with this, but it's true...
     
  7. koval

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    That link from the OP is from a Chinese held website and not only that but what has a link to the top 500 university's got to do with health care systems?
     
  8. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    I RARELY if ever reconsider my comments. Thats why the net is so fun. I can post any old sort of drivel/dog snot and get a rise out of people. :)
     
  9. ManlyBanisters

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    From: Methodology-ADRW2004

    This shows where the Institute of Higher Education, Shanghai Jiao Tong University (who compiled those stats) got their info. That's fair enough - but if you look at the publications you will see they are English language publications. Now - the majority of academic researchers will publish their work in English, even when that is not their native language. BUT this is not universal behaviour. The data used to compile that list is slightly English language biased and therefore the USA and UK naturally have an advantage.

    I think I'd like to see similar data from another source before I throw up my hands and run screaming from the continent. :rolleyes:
     
    #9 ManlyBanisters, Sep 9, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2008
  10. Drifterwood

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  11. Gl3nn

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    Maybe the top universities are in America, but if you look at overall education (including high school), then Europe scores much higher.

    Btw, one of the reasons that there are some problems in Europe is because the banks here invested in American banks (and vice versa) and we all know that they did an amazing job.... giving loans to people who can't pay them back.

    So first solve the problems in your own country before you go tell other countries what to do.
     
  12. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Professor Frans van Vught, a board member of the European University Association (EUA), noted that competition between universities for the best minds, funding and reputation is nowadays global and that European universities do not have the financial means to win this competition.
    According to Prof. van Vught, the reasons behind European universities' low competitiveness are four-fold. "First, we have a historical problem of under-funding. The US spends 100% more on higher education. Furthermore, the some 4,000 US higher education institutions are far more diverse compared to the some 4,000 European institutions, which are very homogeneous." Additional reasons put forward by Vught include strictly regulated governance structures, which limit the autonomy of higher education institutions, as well as an old-fashioned mindset according to which universities need to be protected from church, state and societal influence.<<<

    Its like a huge Rubik's cube. We have chosen here in Ameirca, to focus more on higher education than health care. It appears very hard to do both.
     
  13. ManlyBanisters

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    From your link Drifter: "Universities were placed in the table with the help of findings from a survey for the THES of 1,300 academics in 88 countries. They were asked to name the best institutions in the fields that they felt knowledgeable about."

    Reputation seemed to play a big part there.

    As you point out - Universities are not the be all and end all of an education system. I think you'll find that a great many of the academics and alumni of place like Cambridge and oxford are not Bristish - likewise those of Harvard and MIT are not all Americans.
     
  14. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Actually there are several sources, all with the same reults. You can google it. They are a bitch to download tho. This was the easiest.
     
  15. D_Jared Padalicki

    D_Jared Padalicki Account Disabled

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    Wich countries are you talking about because I know that the BeNeLux has a very high educational program...
     
  16. Wyldgusechaz

    Wyldgusechaz New Member

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    Should I be surprised that you missed the point? The point is allocation of resources. I would venture many of the top professor's in the US are trained elsewhere. We spend way more to get them.

    And you missed the real question tho I spelled it out. One or the other: Great universities or better health care? Or better Social Security? Given that our universities woulsdthen fall to the bottom 50 as a frame for the question. You can't do both so pick one. Just one. Its that pesky Rubik's cube of resource allocation.

    Edit: I should answer this question myself. Given all the amazing things that have come out of American Univeristies, like integrated circuits and high yield wheat, and industrial design and geologic exploration, I would pick keeping unis well funded and keep working on health care, BUT GIVEN A CHOICE, AND I AM, univeristies represent the future and life, and health care represents to me the past and death. My opinion only.
     
    #16 Wyldgusechaz, Sep 9, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2008
  17. ManlyBanisters

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    Are all those US universities on the list solely state funded then?
     
  18. dreamer20

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  19. davec94

    davec94 Member

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    that list is from 2004
     
  20. Gl3nn

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    I think Europe has great universities. American companies even ask for people from here to come over and work there, so education here can't be that bad.
    (And it's the other way around too, I realise that)

    shall we take a look at high schools?
     
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