Europe ain't so great.

[mitchymo]

This is the nub of the issue. We all know that the UK is included by geographers within the continent of Europe, and we know that against the will of most of its population and in breach of pledges made by our politicians the UK is being forced towards a common European identity within the EU super-state. But in the hearts of most people in the UK the UK is NOT part of Europe. Rather the UK is a mid-Atlantic country, with as many or more links with say Canada and Australia as with Italy or Greece.

When people in Britain see Europe unable to give a robust response to Russia's invasion of Georgia or see the damage of common agricultural and fishing policies, it just reinforces the view of many in Britain that we should leave the EU and conduct our own foreign and economic policy.

THE UK IS NOT A PART OF EUROPE.

Speak for yourself!!!

We have a great relationship with many european nations just as we do with the US, Australia and India and you will find that geography is actually the only relevant criteria in determining a nations continental position on the map.

If we are not considering ourselves to be a part of Europe then we are only serving to isolate ourselves...the UK has built its status on our past history but today we are still a small island nation but without the commonwealth that served to position us among the greatest nations in the world...it is in our favor to be a main player among our neighbours in order to maintain our relevance and protect our own interests.

I shudder at the thought of a USE but unity is a good thing nonetheless.

Europe is our continent and Europe is our history....we are european!! simple as!

 

[D_Blevitt Buttkicker]

everytime i watch I AM NOT SMARTER THAN A 5TH GRADER I wonder how good the american school system must be... well, for sure my children are not going to US for school but back to old little europe.
i am sure they've got good school in the US too, but it's all driven by the money, if u got it then u can afford good education, otherwise forget it.
i wasn't uber rich but (without scolarship) i afforded to attend on of the top uni in italy and master in denmark.
just my five cents

 

[BIGBULL29]

More fossilized pre-packaged notions about 'merica is Number 1 (I don't think it is in some ways).

Some LPSG members seem functionally incapable of holding nuanced and fact-based views on anything; it's always one extreme archetype vs. the other.

Before you serve us some trite cliché about the whole world stampeding to break into "America", take seconds of your time to learn some facts from our very own US government about citizenship figures:

http://www.immigration.com/frame/satisuscisfr.html

Do you observe any factual evidence that German, French, British, Italian or other Western European people want to become American (I want to switch places with a few)?

That was a rhetorical question.

I rest my case.

I'm not sure you really understood what I was trying to say. I never said that the US was numero uno. I'd leave tomorrow if I could because I don't believe that happiness is found solely in big money and in a capitalistic society.

In my previous post, I was looking from the perspective of folks who see this country as the land of economic opportunity. The fact remains that European countries never did and nor will ever have an "Ellis Island." Immigrants today still hold the belief that hard work and dedication will most likely pay off financially in the US. And in money comes power and a "good life."

I personally never heard any average Joe say: "Damn, I just want to get my ass to France and Italy, work really hard, and hope to make a six-figure income in five years time." On the other hand, I've met quite a few Europeans who would love to immigrate to the US to try to make big money.

 

[deleted213967]

I personally never heard any average Joe say: "Damn, I just want to get my ass to France and Italy, work really hard, and hope to make a six-figure income in five years time." On the other hand, I've met quite a few Europeans who would love to immigrate to the US to try to make big money.

Again, you are relying on purely personal and fuzzy anecdotal evidence.

I am relying on hard facts and figures from our own US government:

Click on the link, proceed to page 2:

Major Western European countries are not even itemized because the number of them who want to emigrate and become citizens is insignificant.

The only OECD country that is listed is Canada, our neighbor, with a puny 8,000-some.

 

[Drifterwood]

Example when you buy property, do you pay a 2% transfer tax at closing?

Yes, I recently paid 4%. We call it Stamp Duty in the UK.

I do appreciate that some people in the US do pay more tax than at first appears, but please research % of GNP by tax take. As far as my friends have told me, high local property tax pays amongst other things for high quality public education, which is why I was saying that in rich areas, you get very good pulic high school education. There are demographic influences that effect education in the UK but we try to spread the money evenly with a set budget per capita, whereas as far as I understand it, you may get a budget of say $6K per kid in a rich area and $4K in a poor area.

As for what you call us; well I don't like Euros, because it sounds like some people are spitting it. What's wrong with Europeans? if that's too many letters, how about Uhpeans :biggrin1:

Travel per se, does not make you worldly, I've done it myself, and sitting in a Four Seasons or Ritz Carlton, can hardly be classed as culture exchange.

You are just as well to listen to and think about what different people have to say on boards like this.

 

[B_phe1249]

Yes, I recently paid 4%. We call it Stamp Duty in the UK.

I do appreciate that some people in the US do pay more tax than at first appears, but please research % of GNP by tax take. As far as my friends have told me, high local property tax pays amongst other things for high quality public education, which is why I was saying that in rich areas, you get very good pulic high school education. There are demographic influences that effect education in the UK but we try to spread the money evenly with a set budget per capita, whereas as far as I understand it, you may get a budget of say $6K per kid in a rich area and $4K in a poor area.

As for what you call us; well I don't like Euros, because it sounds like some people are spitting it. What's wrong with Europeans? if that's too many letters, how about Uhpeans :biggrin1:

Travel per se, does not make you worldly, I've done it myself, and sitting in a Four Seasons or Ritz Carlton, can hardly be classed as culture exchange.

You are just as well to listen to and think about what different people have to say on boards like this.

But I pay 11k per kid, in an inner city school system. I am clear on the GDP tax take. What do you pay say in Liverpool or Brixton per student? Our edu is set down from the federal government and the money collected locally.

But you are Europeans, you forfeited your identiy as you could not stand on you own- it's perfectly clear and stems from the maastricht treaty.

I do love the Four Season and Ritz Carlton and am happy you have been there- I base my statements on areas I visit at length and even own property in..rest assured what I will no tolerate is a condensending Brit telling me Im not well traveled

 

[Drifterwood]

But I pay 11k per kid, in an inner city school system. I am clear on the GDP tax take. What do you pay say in Liverpool or Brixton per student? Our edu is set down from the federal government and the money collected locally.

But you are Europeans, you forfeited your identiy as you could not stand on you own- it's perfectly clear and stems from the maastricht treaty.

I do love the Four Season and Ritz Carlton and am happy you have been there- I base my statements on areas I visit at length and even own property in..rest assured what I will no tolerate is a condensending Brit telling me Im not well traveled

I don't understand why you have such a chip on your shoulder. I am not talking about you. This is a general discussion and there are some underlying truths in some of the generalisations. Europe does have a different culture to the US. We all have misconceptions, I am trying to understand them or put them right where I can.

Your comment that I have highlighted in blue is one Martini too far :smile: Sweeping statements like yours and BigB's that Europe has no opportunity are clearly wrong, ignorant even. Being obsessed with your own numberoneness can lead to arrogance and disinterest in other people and their culture. A disinterest in other people's languages is a good example of this.

 

[B_phe1249]

I don't understand why you have such a chip on your shoulder. I am not talking about you. This is a general discussion and there are some underlying truths in some of the generalisations. Europe does have a different culture to the US. We all have misconceptions, I am trying to understand them or put them right where I can.

Your comment that I have highlighted in blue is one Martini too far :smile: Sweeping statements like yours and BigB's that Europe has no opportunity are clearly wrong, ignorant even. Being obsessed with your own numberoneness can lead to arrogance and disinterest in other people and their culture. A disinterest in other people's languages is a good example of this.

Please dont be discouaged because I have an issue with people fron far off nations who by and large have no idea of my countries convictions or policies.
As for language I speak three. How bout you? Cockney, English and Proper?

 

[Drifterwood]

Please dont be discouaged because I have an issue with people fron far off nations who by and large have no idea of my countries convictions or policies.
As for language I speak three. How bout you? Cockney, English and Proper?

What do I know about the US?

I went to school with some US guys.
I first visited when I was 17 (over twenty years ago)
I had US friends through college.
I had a wide circle of US friends when I worked in the City and long afterwards and still (they emigrated here :biggrin1
I have US suppliers.
I work and travel with US business peope in the Far East.
I am having an affair with a woman from Chicago.
US news is widely covered in the UK by quality media networks.
I listen to what people say here.
I could cite US entertainment, but TBH, I'd rather watch paint dry than watch friends, sex in the city and boring housewives.

All that said, I still wouldn't say that I know a lot, just that I have had close contact with US people for most of my life. There are plenty of things that I am more interested in.

I speak nine European languages (that does include English :smile, three well, three conversationally and three to an OK get by standard. I also understand Cockney, Glaswegian and Geordie.

Whenever I travel, I have been to 63 different countries (twelve this year so far in three different continents), I always take the trouble to learn the courtesies of the language. There are plenty of US citizens who do the same and show the same respect, but the thing is you don't hear them talking loudly to the waitress like she is an idiot for not understanding . The Brits have a similar reputation. It's a number one language thing.