European travelers and tipping in the USA

rayray

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I'm an Aussie but not the one Young Native has met :tongue:

However I agree entirely with what he has written. If 'good' service deserves a tip, and 'normal' service no tip, are we [the diners] entitled to get a refund out of the waiter's pocket for 'bad' service?

If you [a waiter in the USA] go to see a movie and the presentation is excellent [no flashes from bad reel splices, image in sharp focus, etc] do you tip the projectionist? And if you think my analogy is poor, try checking up projectionists' wages in the US! :mad:{QUOTE} (Yes your analogy is poor.) The projectionist agreed to take a job that pays a straight wage.. If he is not happy with his wage he can look for a better paying job.



The difference is that, by tradition here in the US, working "front of the house" foodservice is effectively work done "on commission". Waitstaff get a very basic wage, one that is exempt from the standard minimum wage, so in many cases the bulk of their income is from tips. It's not icing on the cake here in the US. Tips are what waiters and waitresses depend on to make their car and rent payments.

Under "the system" you decry, a typical waiter in the US might make $15,000 a year in salary (under the special reduced restaurant wages in our law) and $20,000 in tips per year for a 40-hour workweek. Because we're a tipping culture, it was decided long ago to factor that into what's paid to employees in service industries, hence the exemption for employers from the standard minimum wage laws.

What do you suggest; that the entire nation of foodservers go on strike for a different system? I admit I like the Aussie system, but ours works fine as long as diners understand that there is an expectation of paying, on average, 15% above the menu's listed prices for consistent and pleasant service. If it's intrusively poor or unpleasant, you leave less. If it is memorably professional and enjoyable, you generally pay more. It's basically pay-for-performance.
Gymfresh, you could not have said it any better then this. I understand where the mostly British responses are coming from but they need to get it in their heads that it is just plain rude to be a guest in our country and argue our customs. Get with it. TIPS- To insure proper service.
This is from WIKIPEDIA on tipping in the USA.Restaurants
Tipping is customary in restaurants offering traditional table service. While the amount of a tip is ultimately at the discretion of the patron, the customary tip until the 1980s was from 10-15% of the total bill before tax, for good to excellent service, and since then has risen to 15-20% before tax.[citation needed] Tipping percentages may fall when the economy is poor.[42]
Waiters, on average, fail to report at least 40% of their tips according to the IRS.[43] For example, an IRS audit triggered by major discrepancies between employee reported tip and credit card slips maintained by the business, it was discovered that employees of Fior D'Italia in San Francisco under-reported their tip income in 1991 and 1992 by 14.4 and 14.29%, respectively. [44] In a 2003 audit conducted in a research report under advise of Ron Worsham at Brigham Young University, it was found that the data collected from sample restaurants had an average tip percentage which ranged from 13.57 to 14.69% between 1999-2002.[45]
When a server has not adequately addressed issues a customer has with service, the patron may choose to speak with management to have the problems corrected before considering reducing the tip.[46] In extreme cases of inferior service, the patron may choose not to leave a tip. Some dissatisfied customers leave a very small tip, such as one penny, as a personal insult, though this is considered impolite and not a standard business practice.
In certain situations, the restaurant may assess a gratuity to the bill automatically without customer input, called an "autograt."[47] This is most frequently applied to large parties, such as six or more. A standard predetermined percent, often ~18%, sometimes labeled as a "service charge".[48] In less frequent cases, an autograt may be placed on every customer's bill. Reputable restaurants post their policy on a sign or the menu, or require servers to inform their patrons of such charges before they order. This charge can be verified by the customer on the bill to avoid tipping in addition to the service charge. Regardless of whether it is labeled a "service charge," it is taxable income.
Legal cases have established that customers have a right to negotiate, alter, or refuse automatic service charges, even if the policy is written on the menu.[49] A customer may choose to include an extra tip for the server over and above the service charge, or, if service is poor, to negotiate an alternate service charge with management.
Many traditional restaurants offer carry-out ("pick-up," "take-out, or "curbside") service, and standards for tipping for such services vary. Tipping is not customary for non-table services.
Tipping at fast food restaurants and coffeehouses that do not offer table service is not necessary, despite the common proliferation of tip jars, which are considered inappropriate by many.[50][51] THis is what WIKIPEDIA says about the UK.... United Kingdom
It is not customary to tip for service at pubs. However bars (as distinct from pubs, for example cocktail bars) will often deliver change on a plate to a customer being served at the bar, and expect some or all of it to be left as a tip. Tips are usual for table service in either pubs or bars.
Tips of 10% are common in restaurants but not expected. It is a legal requirement to include any taxes and other obligatory charges in the price. Service charges, which may be discretionary (although it is very unusual to refuse to pay) or mandatory, are sometimes levied, more often in London and other large cities than regional areas. It is legal to refuse to pay a mandatory service charge if the service was considered inadequate.[32]
Tipping for other services such as taxis and hairdressers is not expected, but tips are sometimes given to reward particularly good service. Although in some large cities it is customary to tip both taxi drivers and hairdressers/barbers.[citation needed]
Tips are welcomed in hotels for good service in housekeeping (particularly for very dirty rooms) reception staff, kitchen, restaurant/bar staff. Tips encourage good service.
A tronc is an arrangement for the pooling and distribution to employees of tips, gratuities and/or service charges in the hotel and catering trade. The person who distributes monies from the tronc is known as the troncmaster. When a tronc exists in the UK, responsibility for operating PAYE on the distribution may lie with the troncmaster rather than the employer.[33][34] (The word 'tronc' has its origins in the French for collecting box.) In June 2008, the Employment Appeals Tribunal ruled that income from a tronc cannot be counted when assessing whether a wage or salary meets the national minimum wage (see Revenue and Customs Commissioners v Annabel’s (Berkeley Square) Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 361, [2009] ICR 1123)
 
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Hoss

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As I said earlier, a tip is not required.

Facts are that you take a job in a place and know that tips are part of it. Set your life accordingly.

As I stated before, sure some people will undertip or stiff you entirely, others give very generous tips, it balances out. If it doesn't balance to your particular lifestyle and you need more cash, get a job someplace else which doesn't rely so heavily on tips.

I'm also curious how the people from the service industry feel about places where the tips are pooled and then split up. How does it feel to see the 30percent tip which was left for your hard work get split up and given in part to the lazy worker who gets orders wrong and subsequently didn't get a tip of their own to add to that pool of tips?

Irritating trends are tip jars at Starbucks.....I confess I was in there once:redface:, tips at other coffee spots that don't even have the fancy seating, tip jars in delis and small local grocery stores....
 

The Dragon

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Most (although not all!) Aussies tend to think this way.

Mostly, we just don't do tipping here. It's not required. It's not expected. It's not standard (at least in middle of the range places and lower).

SOME Aussies will tip sometimes. Usually it's for particularly good service, although it's often just because they couldn't be bothered waiting for change (particularly when the change is a small amount).

I've done a waitressing type job, and tips were nice when we got 'em, but they were a BONUS. They weren't necessary because our basic wage was as good as that of anyone in a job that didn't require special qualifications.

If I were to visit the US, I KNOW I would forget to tip at least once, despite knowing it is expected there. I'm just not in the habit of tipping, unless the service stands out as particularly good. It wouldn't be that I was disrespecting US customs, or the minimum wage wait staff (who I feel for terribly!). I would just have forgotten.

^^^This.

A few businesses that I frequent here in Australia try their god damned luck and leave out a tip jar and I'm more than likely to flip them the mental bird and put pocket change into a charity collection tin sitting on the same counter.
 

bobg4400

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^^^This.

A few businesses that I frequent here in Australia try their god damned luck and leave out a tip jar and I'm more than likely to flip them the mental bird and put pocket change into a charity collection tin sitting on the same counter.

Clearly more australian resturants should put out tip jars. I'm sure charities would be grateful for the extra income.:biggrin1:
 

erratic

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I think it's natural to be confused about tipping in a foreign country. The rules are different country by country, often region by region, and frequently restaurant by restaurant (all-you-can-eat being different from buffet, which is different from some corporate chain restaurant, which is different from fine dining). I find that the more I travel, the more confused I get. I try to read about what's customary before I go - but often times I get conflicting or vague information. I'll often ask at my hotel or B&B what the local custom is.

That being said, I think pretty rude of a server to tell someone what the tip should be. If a server asked me "Was there anything wrong with your meal or our service?" I would probably get nervous that I tipped low and do something about it (unless there really was something wrong with my experience, in which case I'd pipe up about it). If my server went on to say "It's customary to tip X%..." I would not be impressed.
 

hud01

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People go to restaurants to enjoy a meal and and each others company,not contemplate the staffs' working conditions.These people are on holiday and almost certainly never gave the whole tipping thing a second thought.If you people are stupid enough to work in those conditions then thats your fault,you need to challenge the bosses and not the customers.So don't refer to these people as 'ignorant fucks' just because most European countries safe guard their workers rights by giving their staff the right pay for the job they do.
A tip is a measure of how much someone has enjoyed (or not) the service offered by a particular establishment,it's not an entitlement.
Paying ANYONE two dollars an hour in 2012 is positively third world.So buoycott anyone paying these wages,things will soon change...!!
I guess you haven't traveled to other countries and haven't known about their customs.

Before I go to a new country I look to see what their customs are.

Now the restaurants could raise how much they charge you for a meal to cover the costs of their staff. Would that make you happier.
 

GB_GB

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is America the only country that taxes on tips? Why base a tip on an average percentage of a bill? That's a trap for paying taxes on tips. A tip should be looked at as a sign of gratitude from a customer for whatever serrvice was rendered for him and not his duty.
 

hud01

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is America the only country that taxes on tips? Why base a tip on an average percentage of a bill? That's a trap for paying taxes on tips. A tip should be looked at as a sign of gratitude from a customer for whatever serrvice was rendered for him and not his duty.
A tip is income and it is the majority of the waitstaff's income
 

Viking_UK

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is America the only country that taxes on tips? Why base a tip on an average percentage of a bill? That's a trap for paying taxes on tips. A tip should be looked at as a sign of gratitude from a customer for whatever serrvice was rendered for him and not his duty.

Tips are taxed in the UK too. HMRC assumes that hospitality staff receive a certain percentage in tips on top of their salary and taxes them accordingly.
 

Koval2

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I'm a European traveller who travels a lot and I always tip between 15 - 25% depending on the level of service I recieve. Although the last time I was in LA I gave a girl a 35% tip even though she was not my waitress. The guy who was serving me decided to take the payment from another table that the girl was originally serving and pocketed the tip. Later I heard him deny getting a tip from her customers so I felt sorry for her and when it came to my turn to pay I called her over, settled my bill and gave her a large tip instead. the male waiter was annoyed but I told him it never pays to lie to colleagues or to steal their hard earned money.

At least I made her day.
 

midlifebear

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Well, just so you are all aware, it is not customary to leave a tip in Spain with the exception of change that may be left over from the cost of a meal. In that socialist satan-worshipping godless country wait and bar staff who are working legally within the system are paid a decent living wage including full benefits. If you receive exceptionally grand service and feel your server deserves a tip, there is no law stopping you from leaving one.

But please! Please! Please! Dear fellow 'Mericuhns DO NOT automatically leave 15% or 20% when slumming through Barcelona, Madrid, Toledo, las Costa Brava, etc. You're creating problems for the rest of us who live there. And if you're stupid enough to eat the prepackaged frozen paella that is microwaved and served in a ceramic dish along Las Ramblas, don't even leave the change for your meal (if you're clear headed enough to realize you deserve change). Those restaurants automatically add 15% to your bill, whether you're a native or not.

The problem in the US is who brainwashed everyone into thinking that servers should live on $1.25 and hour and make up the rest of their minimum wage salary by depending upon the kindness of strangers? Free market my ass! It's more like indentured servitude.
 

rayray

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As I said earlier, a tip is not required.

Facts are that you take a job in a place and know that tips are part of it. Set your life accordingly.

As I stated before, sure some people will undertip or stiff you entirely, others give very generous tips, it balances out. If it doesn't balance to your particular lifestyle and you need more cash, get a job someplace else which doesn't rely so heavily on tips.

I'm also curious how the people from the service industry feel about places where the tips are pooled and then split up. How does it feel to see the 30percent tip which was left for your hard work get split up and given in part to the lazy worker who gets orders wrong and subsequently didn't get a tip of their own to add to that pool of tips?

Irritating trends are tip jars at Starbucks.....I confess I was in there once:redface:, tips at other coffee spots that don't even have the fancy seating, tip jars in delis and small local grocery stores....
Hoss, I would never work for a place that would pool their tips in such a manner. The only exception for me was that i worked at a large Seafood restaurant on Tampa Bay that had a Show boat that would have private parties ..There was me a bartender and one other server on most cruises where we would pull our tips, so we all pulled our weight.
Clearly more australian resturants should put out tip jars. I'm sure charities would be grateful for the extra income.:biggrin1:
Times are tough and i think at a coffee house like Starbucks who leave a tip jar on their counter when you are already pay a premium for their product is out of place but you have a choice to do whatever..
I think it's natural to be confused about tipping in a foreign country. The rules are different country by country, often region by region, and frequently restaurant by restaurant (all-you-can-eat being different from buffet, which is different from some corporate chain restaurant, which is different from fine dining). I find that the more I travel, the more confused I get. I try to read about what's customary before I go - but often times I get conflicting or vague information. I'll often ask at my hotel or B&B what the local custom is.It is very confusing, i agree and you found the perfect solution by asking management what is customary and proper. There should be more people who think like you..

That being said, I think pretty rude of a server to tell someone what the tip should be. If a server asked me "Was there anything wrong with your meal or our service?" I would probably get nervous that I tipped low and do something about it (unless there really was something wrong with my experience, in which case I'd pipe up about it). If my server went on to say "It's customary to tip X%..." I would not be impressed.