European video game makers?

[Zeuhl34]

Oh GI3n you fell into it. I was kinda waiting for the snobby *REAL ART* comment from someone. Thank you.


I was skiing yesterday and I took the time to watch all the young snowboarders doing their thing in the terrain park. Wild heavy energy music, wildly unique clothes, snowboards decorated in individual styles, lots and lots of energy. Incredible aerial tricks. Death defying. Thats their art, thats their music. Is that more base than a La Traviata or a Mona Lisa? Maybe to us but not to them. I like some opera and I also like American Bluegrass music. Which is better? I know I feel better listening some down home blue grass, thats for sure. Who makes that judgement? You? I don't think so.

That "unique clothes" and "individual styles" are mass-produced and sold to Americans to perpetuate the idea that they are unique and beautiful snowflakes. In truth, only a very small portion of people in the world are all that creative, and I'd imagine they're pretty evenly distributed all over the globe.

And, in my opinion, snowboarding is much baser than classical arts like painting, drama, music, etc. Snowboarding--and by extension most sports--are mostly physical feats requiring little creativity (though I admit one must have good focus). Just about every snowboard trick I've seen is some variation of doing mid-air spins and jumps, and that seems far from all that original.

Additionally, musical judgments between genres as different as bluegrass and opera are more-or-less impossible. Unless you're comparing something like techno (repetitive computerized loops) to opera, it's not possible to really classify one genre as more musical than the other.

Personally though, I've noticed that European bands (mostly English, Italian, Swedish, and German) generally seem to beat American bands in terms of creativity. Or at least in the past they have; I'm not "with" the current music scene.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Sorry, America. The best video games come from Japan. Period.
It's always been that way and it always will be.

 

[sadstateofaffairs]

Sorry, America. The best video games come from Japan. Period.
It's always been that way and it always will be.

Umm, No? I barely post but I can already tell you're quick to call Japan the best with not only a anime avatar but also a quote from a Japanese manga.

There are various times in which American game makers have made better games if you want to go by the reviewers or GOTY standards but game creation is just as subjective as anything. For example I get really bored while playing most Japanese RPGs but I have a blast with Western RPGs. I get really bored while playing Halo clones and boring FPS's but I enjoy playing out of the box style plot driven games like MGS that are made in Japan.

PS: Game of the Year winners for the past couple years have all come from Western Developers, but that doesn't make them any better it just makes them more widely received.

Don't speak if your going to make biased inane statements

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Umm, No? I barely post but I can already tell you're quick to call Japan the best with not only a anime avatar but also a quote from a Japanese manga.

There are various times in which American game makers have made better games if you want to go by the reviewers or GOTY standards but game creation is just as subjective as anything. For example I get really bored while playing most Japanese RPGs but I have a blast with Western RPGs. I get really bored while playing Halo clones and boring FPS's but I enjoy playing out of the box style plot driven games like MGS that are made in Japan.

PS: Game of the Year winners for the past couple years have all come from Western Developers, but that doesn't make them any better it just makes them more widely received.

Don't speak if your going to make biased inane statements

Sad you sound like you know games. What does it take to design and implement a game?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Umm, No? I barely post but I can already tell you're quick to call Japan the best with not only a anime avatar but also a quote from a Japanese manga.

There are various times in which American game makers have made better games if you want to go by the reviewers or GOTY standards but game creation is just as subjective as anything. For example I get really bored while playing most Japanese RPGs but I have a blast with Western RPGs. I get really bored while playing Halo clones and boring FPS's but I enjoy playing out of the box style plot driven games like MGS that are made in Japan.

PS: Game of the Year winners for the past couple years have all come from Western Developers, but that doesn't make them any better it just makes them more widely received.

Don't speak if your going to make biased inane statements

I don't speak this just because I have an anime avatar. But thanks for making that equally biased and inane assumption.

I'm speaking as a gamer going as far back as the Atari 2600 and the Vetrex. I have practically owned every American video game system, lived through the initial video game market crash of the 80s, spent more time in actual video arcades than I did in neighborhood playgrounds or summer camp as a child, threw my first Hadoken when I was a freshman in High School and Chun-Li's Spinning Roundhouse kick when I graduated. I watched "Starrcade" faithfully like housewives watched "General Hospital". I used an Atari 5200 joystick and lived to tell about it. I own a Neo Geo and was crazy enough to pay $250 or more for arcade exact 2D fighting titles in the mid 90s. In fact I still have every King Of Fighters title ever released for the cartridge based system in full working condition, nevermind have almost every arcade and home game I played during my childhood emulated on my MacBook Pro. All of my game systems over the last 18 years have either been modified to also play Japanese titles, or have converters that will allow it to do so. And yes, I own a Wii and bought Twilight Princess to hack the system just so I can play the elusive Tatsunoko vs. Capcom import that will probably never make it to US shores. In other words, I've been a happily addicted, avid video gamer for 30 years. And yes, there IS a reason why I say Japan has always made the best games. This has nothing to do with who has the current "hot title" or what you think is graphically superior, or even which system you personally think kicks ass. It's all based on video gaming history and true sense of longevity.


Why don't we look at the ten most recognizable video game characters in history? Top 10 Videogame Characters from 1UP.com

According to 1Up, this list includes:
1. Mario (Donkey Kong)
2. Link (Zelda)
3. Solid Snake (Metal Gear Solid)
4. Samus Aran (Metroid)
5. Sonic
6. Pac-Man
7. Cloud Strike (Final Fantasy VII)
8. Master Chief (Halo 2)
9. Pikachu (Pokemon)
10. Laura Croft (Tomb Raider)

Where were the majority of these games created? What country were the majority of these games released first? Where did these games make the most money? One answer... JAPAN. Hell, most of these characters were designed by Japanese artists.

Let's also look at the top ten selling video game franchises? And let's use a different source to get a different perspective. The Top 10 Best-Selling Game Franchises - Video Game Feature - Yahoo! Video Games

1. Mario (195 Million)
2. Pokemon (164 Million)
3. The Sims (90 Million)
4. Final Fantasy (75 Million)
5. Grand Theft Auto (65 Million)
6. Tetris (60 Million)
7. Madden NFL (60 Million)
8. The Legend Of Zelda (52 Million)
9. Donkey Kong (48 Million)
10. Gran Turismo (47 Million)

To add more fuel to the fire, Japanese based game systems get more titles than their US or European counterparts. The only exception could be the Xbox and the 360. Japan still has a thriving arcade scene. With the exception of most EA games, they even get the games first.

You can find a few exceptions where an American based game shined among the best. In fact, the lists that I provided illustrate it. Regardless of that, you can speak volumes about Grand Theft Auto, Madden, The Sims or whatever game that EA would like to push to the world and it still pales in comparison to the contributions the Japanese gaming market has made to our video game world. And yet, you'll probably still think I'm just "biased" because I have an avatar of Kakashi Hatake on my profile. So sorry if I won't blindly join the rest of the hyper-patriotic fanboys and their incandescent "We're #1" chants. But the numbers don't lie. Japan has ran this market for decades and always will. Especially if the only contributions American game companies can come up with is GTA and Madden. But hey, we still get to play house on The Sims, right??

 

[798686]

GTA is British, dude. (designed in Scotland by DMA).

So is Tomb Raider. I take your point though that the overwhelming majority of major games are Japanese in origin.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

GTA is British, dude. (designed in Scotland by DMA).

A small oversight on my behalf. My apologies. :wink:

 

[vince]

I am not a gamer so I have little knwledge of who makes what.

This is the only statement we need to hear from you. Typical ugly American dumb ass statement. You can't even spell "knowledge" for Christsakes.

Essentially you are saying, "I don't know what I'm talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't BLAH BLAH BLAH fucked up over there because everything in America is so superior?

Get over your inferiority complex, and stick it in your ear.

 

[798686]

A small oversight on my behalf. My apologies. :wink:

Heh, np - really gracious response btw, dude

(feel mean now for pointing it out :biggrin1.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

This is the only statement we need to hear from you. Typical ugly American dumb ass statement. You can't even spell "knowledge" for Christsakes.

Essentially you are saying, "I don't know what I'm talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't BLAH BLAH BLAH fucked up over there because everything in America is so superior?

Get over your inferiority complex, and stick it in your ear.

This is where the the brilliant (moi) get to shine. I picked 2 hip new youthful industries where gearing up for market penetration should rather easy. Both CGI and game creation are not infrastructure intensive or labor intensive. They are idea intensive and that's a far different beast entirely. It would have been unfair of me to have chosen say electronics fabrication or computer fan because those are both labor and tool demanding. Penetrating a mature and infrastructure intensive market where a nation is already behind would be tough. Penetrating what us mostly an "idea" intensive industry should be based mostly on your ideas. Also if it where a $500 million biz instead of a $10 billion biz I would understand not entering that market. Entering a market where the real capital is creative thought is far easier. I still don't understand why Europe does not have a thriving game creation cadre of young inventive thinkers. U tell me.

 

[798686]

I still don't understand why Europe does not have a thriving game creation cadre of young inventive thinkers. U tell me.

It has. Haven't you been reading the posts?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

It has. Haven't you been reading the posts?

Reading is not his best feature, joll...
Then again, we're all still trying to find out what is. :wink:

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

Reading is not his best feature, joll...
Then again, we're all still trying to find out what is. :wink:

Cripes. You just got thru saying Japan makes all the best video games did you not? VB, as a dedicated gamer, what VGs do you play born and bred in Germany, France, Italy, The Czech Republic, Poland, Austria, Greece, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Russia (we have Tetris from when there were pterodactyls flying?(gliding in reality) in the sky), Hungary (Hungary has had no trouble along with the Czechs of churning out hot porn)

Where is that list?

 

[pym]

Hey GUZ......I think this is what you are really after, JA, mein Herr?

And it's cool to, cuz your 'UP-FRONT' about it.

I am certain that this is the European influenced video that you are really after.

http://system13.org/2007/06/09/the-nazi-swastika-in-video-games/

Nazi

gamepolitics: Singing Nazi Twins Enjoy Racist Video Game

Hate Games: Neo-Nazi Computer Games & Propaganda - Investigation of Prejudice

Video Game Uncovered in Europe Uses Nazi Death Camps as Theme - The New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/03/t...boo-nazi-protagonists-invade-video-games.html

Racist Groups Using Computer Gaming to Promote Violence Against Blacks, Latinos and Jews.

Best "Nazi" Video Games

Certainly European Inspired if nothing else.
Enjoy meine Freunde

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Cripes. You just got thru saying Japan makes all the best video games did you not? VB, as a dedicated gamer, what VGs do you play born and bred in Germany, France, Italy, The Czech Republic, Poland, Austria, Greece, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Russia (we have Tetris from when there were pterodactyls flying?(gliding in reality) in the sky), Hungary (Hungary has had no trouble along with the Czechs of churning out hot porn)

Where is that list?

If I listed every video game that I played ever, it would take up more than 3 pages on this thread. Regardless, my previous long post on page two clearly shows why Japan gets the credit for making the best games. I honestly don't care where a game is made. As long as I enjoy it, I play it. Despite that, to claim that Europe doesn't have any contenders in this field, especially since they bring franchises like GTA and Tomb Raider to the table (Rockstar and Edios I think), is just foolish.

At the same time, it seems as if you're trying to toot your patriotic rhetoric and try to position the US above Europe regarding this issue. Right now, the only two game companies in America that are even worth a damn is Electronic Arts (Madden/The Sims) and Activision. They're about neck and neck in this contest if you look at it that way. But both countries combined get "pwned" by Japan. As long as there is Mario, Link and Pikachu, they'll never be able to catch up. What's worse is that's all from ONE COMPANY. God forbid if we include the others.

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

If I listed every video game that I played ever, it would take up more than 3 pages on this thread. Regardless, my previous long post on page two clearly shows why Japan gets the credit for making the best games. I honestly don't care where a game is made. As long as I enjoy it, I play it. Despite that, to claim that Europe doesn't have any contenders in this field, especially since they bring franchises like GTA and Tomb Raider to the table (Rockstar and Edios I think), is just foolish.

At the same time, it seems as if you're trying to toot your patriotic rhetoric and try to position the US above Europe regarding this issue. Right now, the only two game companies in America that are even worth a damn is Electronic Arts (Madden/The Sims) and Activision. They're about neck and neck in this contest if you look at it that way. But both countries combined get "pwned" by Japan. As long as there is Mario, Link and Pikachu, they'll never be able to catch up. What's worse is that's all from ONE COMPANY. God forbid if we include the others.

Hey Euros, you are now one country. Dig it.

 

[798686]

Hey Euros, you are now one country. Dig it.

No! Set me freeee :biggrin1:

 

[Wyldgusechaz]

If I listed every video game that I played ever, it would take up more than 3 pages on this thread. Regardless, my previous long post on page two clearly shows why Japan gets the credit for making the best games. I honestly don't care where a game is made. As long as I enjoy it, I play it. Despite that, to claim that Europe doesn't have any contenders in this field, especially since they bring franchises like GTA and Tomb Raider to the table (Rockstar and Edios I think), is just foolish.

At the same time, it seems as if you're trying to toot your patriotic rhetoric and try to position the US above Europe regarding this issue. Right now, the only two game companies in America that are even worth a damn is Electronic Arts (Madden/The Sims) and Activision. They're about neck and neck in this contest if you look at it that way. But both countries combined get "pwned" by Japan. As long as there is Mario, Link and Pikachu, they'll never be able to catch up. What's worse is that's all from ONE COMPANY. God forbid if we include the others.

OK VB you got the stage: What am I missing here? How tough is it to deign and implement a game? I know shit about VGs but I know USC offers a degree in game design.

The software is available is it not?

Game Design Software For Aspiring Video Game Designers

Game Design Software For Aspiring Video Game Designers

You can find game design resources everywhere and it does not seem too expensive. Why can't France/Italy give us a hot first person shooter game?

I do know what they might be really good at tho: desigining a game where 2 Euros in tailored fake Armaini suits sit in a Parisian coffeehouse drinking expresso and smoking cigarettes discussing the Socialist Manifesto and its effects on the bourgeoisie, while eyeing chicks who don't shave their legs.

I prefer *Quake.*

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Wyld: Anyone can design a game, but a good one? It even took a company like Capcom 10 years to make a sequal to Street Fighter, which is one of their longest running franchises and their biggest moneymaker next to Megaman and possibly Resident Evil. You can take courses in animation and CGI all you want and make the most graphically superior game out there an it won't even matter if the gameplay sucks or if none of the characters in it have any real marketing or memorable value. That's the problem with most first person anything because there isn't a real main character to connect with. That is precisely why a company like Nintendo can release a Mario title every year and it sells like hotcakes. That's why Namco can always rely on Pac-Man to bring in some revenue... he's been doing it since 1980.

My favorite genres in video games are 2D fighters, RPGs, puzzles and some shooters with the occasional platform title or battle strategy title. I have no idea why France hasn't tried to lay stake in the video gaming world. But being so close to Japan and the rest of the Asian market, why even bother?