Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis part 2 - Ireland

[dandelion]

[QUOTE="Drifterwood, post: 6717621, member: 119804"I also have doubts that you can now achieve a political consensus in a country as divided as the UK.[/quote]precisely the problem. But as you just pointed out, while people from all parties support Brexit, they may completely disagree about what to do next. Having thrown out the EU consensus, there is no replacement one.

But I think Corbyn still had a decent chance of winning the next election had the referendum gone to remain and the tories stayed on to 2020. The tide has turned against the tories, indeed they never achieved any impressive success since Blair. It was more a 'we are tired of labour' result than any great belief in tories. But I think his chances much greater now because the dry run we just experienced gave him the opportunity to gain credibility as a government in waiting. Otherwise the result now might have been deferred to 2020 and then government in 2025 (though brexit is all which is holding the current government together even as it tears them apart)

 

[dandelion]

Unfortunately Mr. McDonnell wants one with me up against a wall.

I posted that in many ways Corbyn's manifesto is right of Thatcher's first one.[/QUOTE] Shows how much we have changed. There are key issues Corbyn can go for, such as housing, which I think would be widely popular. I heard a rather confused person complaining labour would take away what he had won in owning property at such high prices. But he would most likly never ever see that cash realised, and had to pay double the mortgage he otherwise might to have obtained it. Housing is a car crash. Education has become a car crash. There is huge double talk on the NHS. Utilities have been milking the public. Theres lots of uncontentious stuff voters would love. Do love, but the conservatives have hooked themselves on their brand of austerity.

 

[Jason]

Unfortunately Mr. McDonnell wants one with me up against a wall.

This isn't far fetched. It is what happened in Venezuela and Cuba and other Marxist hells that Corbyn admires.

At the Conference a Labour group said they wanted the "final solution" for Israel. I find this shocking, but what is beyond shocking is that Corbyn and Labour have not condemned it.

If Corbyn comes to power we face the threat of a holocaust in the UK directed against anyone who stands against Corbyn. Yes it will be @Drifterwood, capitalist scum, as well as the Jews and who knows quite whom after that.

 

[Jason]

I posted that in many ways Corbyn's manifesto is right of Thatcher's first one.

Shows how much we have changed. There are key issues Corbyn can go for, such as housing, which I think would be widely popular. I heard a rather confused person complaining labour would take away what he had won in owning property at such high prices. But he would most likly never ever see that cash realised, and had to pay double the mortgage he otherwise might to have obtained it. Housing is a car crash. Education has become a car crash. There is huge double talk on the NHS. Utilities have been milking the public. Theres lots of uncontentious stuff voters would love. Do love, but the conservatives have hooked themselves on their brand of austerity.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that Corbyn is offering national economic collapse. Momentum have acknowledged that a Labour victory would mean a run on the pound. We're looking at certain sovereign default. We're looking at hyperinflation. All the promises become irrelevant. The UK could not afford any imports. Our health service would collapse with drugs unavailable. We're looking at something worse than the experience of Greece.

And then we're looking at the reign of terror, the only way any Marxist government ever retains power. How many people would die?

Corbyn represents a catastrophe beyond catastrophe.

@dandelion your support of Corbyn is getting wearisome. You've got a good brain. I know Corbyn has duped 40+% but you have more sense. The time comes when it is necessary to make a stand against the evil that Corbyn represents.

 

[Drifterwood]

I posted that in many ways Corbyn's manifesto is right of Thatcher's first one.

Shows how much we have changed. There are key issues Corbyn can go for, such as housing, which I think would be widely popular. I heard a rather confused person complaining labour would take away what he had won in owning property at such high prices. But he would most likly never ever see that cash realised, and had to pay double the mortgage he otherwise might to have obtained it. Housing is a car crash. Education has become a car crash. There is huge double talk on the NHS. Utilities have been milking the public. Theres lots of uncontentious stuff voters would love. Do love, but the conservatives have hooked themselves on their brand of austerity.[/QUOTE]

I think people saw the Tories as a safer pair of hands economically after the crash. However, have we recovered or just got used to being poorer? Many in the south have recovered, but many more in the North have got worse. So much so that this imbalance influenced the Brexit vote.

 

[798686]

Interesting article. Have to say I agree...

https://euobserver.com/opinion/139216

In other news, Juncker's sticking his unpleasant oar in, as usual.

 

[Jason]

The Catalan Independence Referendum is about to happen - it's Sunday.

The assumption seems to be that this story will fizzle. Spain has said it is illegal; no voters have decided not to vote so turnout will be low, yes will need more than 50% of the electorate (not those who actually vote) to claim victory, and anyway an independence vote will not result in independence. However:

1) There's a growing story around the level of Spanish intimidation with reports of arrests, social media closed down, restrictions on flights. This is all pretty nasty.
2) There doesn't seem to have been a recent poll. However financial organisations are doing their own polls. Goldman Sachs think that YES will win.

What happens if YES win and Catalonia declares independence?

 

[southeastone]

Interesting article. Have to say I agree...

https://euobserver.com/opinion/139216

In other news, Juncker's sticking his unpleasant oar in, as usual.

I think macron sees himself as the new number 1 with a weakened Merkel

 

[Jason]

I don't think most in France share Macron's vision. The alternative was represented by Le Pen in their presidential election, and Front National is too extreme. France needs a moderate opposition to the EU. For that matter so does Germany.

 

[Jason]

If Catalonia does clearly vote for independence, should the UK support their independence?

Basically the UK does support the idea of self detmination, though at the same time recognising that the existing nation has rights. I suspect the fudge would be that we ask Spain to find a solution.

 

[dandelion]

The problem is that Corbyn is offering national economic collapse.

Seems we have different views. I am more inclined to the view he is offering national salvation. Some of the happiest people in the world are the scandinavians, what with their socialist ways.

Momentum have acknowledged that a Labour victory would mean a run on the pound.

No. They havea cknowledged that leaving the EU may cause a run on the pound, ans as government inwaiting they have to prepare for that.

The news today was the bank of England again warnig interest rates will rise. Why, I wondered. I suspect the answer is because they expect a financial crisis when Brexit bites, if it ever does. And what are their weapons to fight a recession? cutting interest rates. Which are virtualy zero now. So to able to cut them in the future, they have to raise them now. Thy hope that by restricting th economy now even though it isnt doing very well, they will at least have a little slack to try to boost it later.

@dandelion your support of Corbyn is getting wearisome. You've got a good brain. I know Corbyn has duped 40+% but you have more sense. .

The financial model operating in the Uk and espoused by the conservative party (of deregulation and market capitalism) is leading us into disaster. It is the root cause of growing indebtedness in the UK. it is a policy which relies upon people getting increasingly into debt to boost the national economy. It has to be stopped, and the tories will never do it. Because as a class they are making money from it.

 

[dandelion]

If Catalonia does clearly vote for independence, should the UK support their independence?

As a member of the EU in good standing, of course we would be in a position to apply pressure on Spain.

Oh, we just offered our resignation.

 

[Jason]

Seems we have different views.

Yes, I'm right and you are wrong.


What we are watching with the Momentum take-over of Labour and the popular electoral support for Labour is a process akin to the rise of the third reich, though it is the international socialism of Marx not the national socialism of 1930s Germany.

Right now in the UK thousands of Jews are in fear at the rise of a party that advocates the "final solution". Many have had what they call "the conversation" - the discussion in every family about whether they would emigrate to Israel or USA.

Very many who are working flat out to manage their lives and businesses have a numb fear. The UK under Corbyn faces economic collapse even worse than that experienced by Greece. We're looking at the full Venezuela. The vision of Corbyn is of the poorest kicked to the ground and a Momentum boot stamped in their face.

 

[southeastone]

Right now in the UK thousands of Jews are in fear at the rise of a party that advocates the "final solution". Many have had what they call "the conversation" - the discussion in every family about whether they would emigrate to Israel or USA.

Very many who are working flat out to manage their lives and businesses have a numb fear. .

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...-nawazs-powerful-response-to-jewish-woman-co/

 

[dandelion]

What we are watching with the Momentum take-over of Labour and the popular electoral support for Labour is a process akin to the rise of the third reich,

jase, jase, I already explained that the nazis hated foreigners and hated socialists. Its leave who share those views. Moseley and his blackshirts would undoubtedly have been marching with leave.

 

[Jason]

Thanks @southeastone for posting this link:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...-nawazs-powerful-response-to-jewish-woman-co/

EVERYONE WHO FOLLOWS THIS THREAD PLEASE FIND THE TIME TO VIEW THIS CLIP. IT'S IMPORTANT.

 

[Perados]

Interesting article. Have to say I agree...

https://euobserver.com/opinion/139216

In other news, Juncker's sticking his unpleasant oar in, as usual.

Macron doesn't has to act careful just because of the German results. The agreement was, that Macron won't give any clear statements or give details about his ideas, as long as the German elections were on the run.
The day of his speech was long planned.

Anyway, what he said was already mainly known. On most points Merkel agrees, on some she disagrees. For example she doesn't support the idea of an Euro parliament, but she supports deeper integration. A bigger budget is acceptable, but only with clear solidarity (just as Macron).

The conclusion the article makes is simply three steps to far.
They talk about a European super state and already fear to love any diversity.
This definitely goes too war. Yes, the final goal is a EU state, but this will take decades and can't be achieved by Macron. It's also nonsense to fear to lose any diversity. Britain, Italy, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, China, India, Russia have proved wrong.


But back to France. Yes, they hope to take control over the economy and they want to protect their industry. We see that it failed on national level and so will it fail on EU level (even if it will take decades more).
It always was Germany's goal to keep French influence on EU economy as small as possible. If France thought it would have to "protect" their own industry, fine, as long as it doesn't has any i fluence on the general trade of the EU. On Germany's side, Britain, always. This is the main reason (not lower car exports) why Germany has more than one crying eye, seeing Britain leave.
How ever, Germany will keep on trying to fight it. That's why we have to watch out. Should the EU gets in any way reorganized, we have to make sure that it has a balance between "North" and "South".



And now I forgot what else is written in the article.

 

[dandelion]

EU proposes that northern ireland stays in the EU even if Britain leaves. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-union-european-parliament-a7972596.html?amp

That might upset the DUP, especialy if northern ireland goes for the idea. catalonia here we come.

Oh, and boris Johnson has been caught on camera upsetting the locals again. Managed to recite Kipling's road to mandalay about natives worshipping idols in the middle of a buddhist ceremony. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple

Clip to be shown in a documententary about his gaffs on channel 4 on sunday.

 

[Perados]

EU proposes that northern ireland stays in the EU even if Britain leaves. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-union-european-parliament-a7972596.html?amp

Checkmated

 

[dandelion]

It is rather amusing. Londoners ar probably wondering how they could set up a border around the capital and it could stay in the EU also. They could include heathrow, Tilbury and as much of the south east as want to remain.