Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis part 2 - Ireland

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no problem...
We can focus on Syria only if you like.

Syria never attacked the USA, France or Britain. But all three attacked Syria. This makes you the aggressors...

You can argue that Assad used chemical weapons (something you don't have a real proof for because you attacked before anything could get investigated) and therefore had to act... but then you would need the legitimation by the UN. Again something you didn't have.

So, no proof not even investigations and no back uo by the UN. This makes you a war criminal. I would argue yes, the nation guilty as well. Even more so, if later govs protect the former PM.
sure they are... Libya and Syria got in trouble by CIA jobs, as they started the revolution. Next step were interventions...
The result are rwo more failed states.

In total nothing different to Iraq. US/Britain think they need to change something and fail and then the states fail.
Only difference is, that France was part of the game as well. sure... 30% of our energy is by gas. 30% of this gas is from Russia. We definitely depend on Russian gas, NOT.

Even more laughable is the idea that Russia would stop delivering. They even delivered in the coldest time of the cold war and they will deliver no matter what.
It's Russia that depends on its gas, not Germany. They desperately need the money. Even if they could afford to lose the German money, they couldn't afford the loss in confidence other nations would have in Russia.
In no time the Russian economy would collapse.

But what the Russian economy could afford, is to pull out all it's money from London... and if Putin demands it the oligarchs would do it.
This would be the time London would get in real trubble and with London, whole England would suffer.

That's why England never spoke up, when Russia killed people in England.
At the latest killing you only spoke up, because it was wanted by Russia (elections in Russia and Putin needed a foreign enemy) and May happily accepted because of inner trouble.
You are not only America's puppy, but Russia's bitch also ;)

Germany only gets humiliated by the USA - at least we know it and don't try to hide it by talking about "special relationship". What a euphemism if you think about UK-US relation
Isn't Germany supporting Britain in its robust response to the attack in Salisbury?

As far as I was aware, the German government accepted the proof, and joined the UK, US and France both in condemning the attack, supporting the evidence and expelling Russian diplomats in addition to agreeing to extra sanctions.

PS: How can the UN act when Russia holds a veto?
 
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southeastone

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Remain would weaken the EU?

Till now all of you brexiters argued Brexit would harm the EU so much that it will collapse within the next years... now it's remain? You really have to desite

No sorry maybe we are at crossed purpose or maybe your dislike for me makes you not consider the post in context, you were talking about Russia supporting Brexit that's what I replied to, my question, why do Russia support Brexit is it because it will weaken the EU?
 

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Isn't Germany supporting Britain in its robust response to the attack in Salisbury?
yes...
As far as I was aware, the German government accepted the proof, and joined the UK, US and France both in condemning the attack, supporting the evidence and expelling Russian diplomats in addition to agreeing to extra sanctions.
and yes again...
I thought it's about Syria and interferences on elections. Now it's about killing Russians in Britain?
PS: How can the UN act when Russia holds a veto?
Well... give up your Veto rights and maybe Russia will follow. I guess the rest of the world would like to see that all are equal ;)
 

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No sorry maybe we are at crossed purpose or maybe your dislike for me makes you not consider the post in context, you were talking about Russia supporting Brexit that's what I replied to, my question, why do Russia support Brexit is it because it will weaken the EU?
I don't dislike you... I don't know you.

Only thing I dislike are most of Jason's posts. ;)



Ok, now i got it and totally agree... Russia supports Brexit because it will weaken the EU next to Britain itself.



But I guess then you got my post wrong. I was asking why Russia should support remain. That's what Jason suggested.
 
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dandelion

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For the sake of argument, let's assume they are correct.
The nerve gas attack on the Russian spy was clearly aimed at helping May. The same idea as galtieri invading the falklands, that an opportunity for sabre rattling always rallies voters.

I am quite sure the Russians delight in discrediting all foreign politicians by any means, but at the moment their national interest is served by trying to make sure Brexit happens. My guess is that whatever influence Russia had on the 2017 election, their interest now lies in exaggerating it. A bit like their choice of nerve gas for an assassination. It wasnt about a death, but about the publicity. Now they want to maximise confusion, and of course still help Brexit, because it will be another step down in British world influence.

the government is in power, but very little new legislation is getting through parliament because it is so weak.
It is interesting to speculate what might have happened with a different result. if May had been returned with an effective but minimal commons majority as she had before, then she would have still been in the position of trying to stop Brexit, but it would have been harder for her. She could not have relied upon the DUP to cover her acceptance of staying in the customs union. Or maybe she could, maybe the government had already identified the good friday agreement as a way to stop brexit. Probably the hope was that the lords would defy the commons. But failing all that, the tories would have had to organise a bigger split than they now need, and thus defeat themselves. That is still basically the situation, but now they dont need to appoint so many of their own side to vote against them.

5) the government is hamstrung in the Brexit negotiations, and this is damaging the UK.
The Uk is hamstrung only because the UK gave notice to leave at a specific date and the clock is ticking down. the Uk has to have an agreement to continue relations with the EU as now, before the time expires. Its a deadline imposed by the Uk upon itself by the way this has been handled. But presumably the government always intended to use this to explain why it went soft on brexit. it deliberately hamstrung itelf.

The EU was never going to give the UK the kind of deal May suggested was possible. Because it just is not possible. The EU is a highly complex protectionist wall around its members. No deal can be made which breeches that wall. A state has to place itself inside or outside. Even if the EU desperately wanted a deal with the UK, it simply could not make one. But as things stand, the effect of the Uk leaving is likely to be neutral for the rest of the EU. Not so for Britain, of course.

7) polls were spectacularly wrong for the 2017 election. One view is that the UK just can't do polls, but every other nation can. Another view is that we've actually found why they were wrong - none of the pollsters were weighting to take account of interference by a hostile foreign nation.
They werent wrong Jason, where do you get these crazy ideas? Russia?

When May declared an election there was a big lead for tories. No reason to think this wrong, but the method of calculation ignored big totals for UKIP, libs and most particularly 'Dont Know'.

During the campaign UKIP vote collapsed and moved maybe 2/3 for tory and 1/3 for labour. Lib vote collapsed and went very largely to labour. Dont knows shrank and made their minds up. They voted mostly labour, which isnt very surprising because most of them were anyway former labour voters.

In fact, it went pretty much as might have been expected. Both labour and tory greatly increased their share, and the final result was something of dead heat, reflecting the nations similar division on Brexit.

I would assume that astute tory advisors told May this is what she might expect to happen, and she went for it.

Quite what the UK now does I don't know.
Cancel brexit immediately would probably be best. The tories know Brexit cannot be achieved without slashing the UK's income. They have always known this, they have just lied to the public about it.

They know the public has a big majority against any form of Brexit which harms the Uk economy, and that means all of them. Even leavers have a majority against all known versions of Brexit.

People have not really changed their views. They like the concept of British independence, but not if there is a price tag attached. This was true of leavers at the referendum and is still true now. Even if the propaganda campaign continue to persuade enough people armageddon isnt going to happen after brexit so that they can keep the show on the road, it will not help whichever party pushes it through. Because they will in the future be slaughtered for the harm done to the Uk economy as it becomes apparent.

There is a way for the government to get the kind of deal it said it wants, which is to remain a member and then make these terms part of agreeing to changes the other members want, when next the treaties are renegotiated. But in reality the govrnment does not want to change anything. It wants to be wholly defeated and maintain the status quo.

Oh, and brexit supporters are dying even as we speak. the demographic is changing so that invitably the Uk will rejoin even if it leaves now. This whole thing has simply been one huge exercise in discrediting the UK both as an ally and as a reliable trading partner. It was intended to harm the Uk, it has harmed the Uk, and will continue to do so the longer brexit continues.
 
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We're not, though. ;):joy:
Correct, you are not... for you it's just a joke, but your government (just as the govs of the other for) really believe so and they never would giveup their privileges.

And that's the problem. It will never be possible to get acceptance for the "punishment" of other nations, as long as the punishers are more equal and stand above every law or moral.

I have a lot to do with Africans. Not the businessmen or ambassadors, but with the everage one and what they don't understand are two things:

1. How dare you to call our leaders dictators
2. Why are only black people get pulled in front of the court of den haag, but not a single white one?

And at least in the second point the are right to ask the question.
If I talk about point 1, they accept why we call them dictators.
 

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Amber Rudd has resigned (UK home secretary).

I suspect there will be a very fast replacement - indeed it is quite likely that the new person already knows and it is just polite to announce it the day after Rudd resigns. Sajid Javid?

Javid is keen that the UK should honour Brexit. He's presently Housing, so that post would need to be filled. That could also be interesting. Rees Mogg?
 

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Amber Rudd has resigned (UK home secretary).
I have seen it suggestd she will now join the toriy rebels voting against the government. In order to do so it was probably necessary to cease to be home secretary. Rather embarassing for the party if the home secretary was voting against the government.

The interesting question is whether she had intended to resign but stayed on so long because May asked her to.

Javid is keen that the UK should honour Brexit.
How would he do that? Voters were promised a Brexit with no cost attached. That is clearly what they voted for. How will the government deliver this, when there is no option for Brexit which will not cost the UK severely. (indidentally, the predicted cost to the UK is well on course and has already happened in lost growth compared to the pre refrendum situation. We have only avoided a Brexit recession because world growth picked up and the government/BofE spent a fortune staving it off).

Jason, this point is important, because politicians right now do a lot of mouthing off abour honouring Brexit. But people believe they voted for something which would not cost the nation anything, or would in fact benefit the national finances. In order to honour Brexit they must deliver a national economic gain. Promises will not do, because voters will judge by results. If they lie now, they will be found out and electorally punished.
 
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Correct, you are not... for you it's just a joke, but your government (just as the govs of the other for) really believe so and they never would giveup their privileges.

And that's the problem. It will never be possible to get acceptance for the "punishment" of other nations, as long as the punishers are more equal and stand above every law or moral.

I have a lot to do with Africans. Not the businessmen or ambassadors, but with the everage one and what they don't understand are two things:

1. How dare you to call our leaders dictators
2. Why are only black people get pulled in front of the court of den haag, but not a single white one?

And at least in the second point the are right to ask the question.
If I talk about point 1, they accept why we call them dictators.
I would need to know more about point two.

But yes, I imagine they do realise why we (including Germany) call them dictators.
 

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I would need to know more about point two.

But yes, I imagine they do realise why we (including Germany) call them dictators.
Sure they realize... but the point is that they complain about in thr first place.
They simply have the justified expression that their nation have no saying at all and it's Europe only that desites what is right or wrong and if the former desitions doesn't fit for Europe we simply change everything.

You can't believe how popular conspiracy theories are in Africa... Everything bad that happens is Europe's fault.
I guess the reason for this is how we treat Africa.
 
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I'm not quite sure how it fits with this thread, but there's a lot going right for African nations. Think economic growth: Uganda, Mozambique, Tanzania, Botswana, Mauritius. Think of farming and exports of food: Mali, Ghana, Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Zambia. There's tourism, including quite unlikely places, Rwanda and Cape Verde. Telecoms are doing well in Senegal. Manufacturing is still weak, but there are good examples, for example the shoe industry in Ethiopia.

Of course there are disasters - all of N Africa, plus political mess in South Africa. But there are many good news stories as well. The EU has a blemished record. Think CAP. Think trade barriers applied by the protectionist EU. Think willingness of EU nations to condemn African regimes rather than to engage. On this last point we do have to engage with difficult regimes. For example I believe we have to engage with Saudi Arabia, and the same logic means we must engage with problematic governments in Africa.
 

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Amber Rudd has resigned (UK home secretary).

I suspect there will be a very fast replacement - indeed it is quite likely that the new person already knows and it is just polite to announce it the day after Rudd resigns. Sajid Javid?

Javid is keen that the UK should honour Brexit. He's presently Housing, so that post would need to be filled. That could also be interesting. Rees Mogg?

STOP PRESS!

A prediction I actually got right! Sajid Javid is indeed the new Home Secretary. No news yet about Housing minister.

Javid is basically pro Brexit. Rudd will not oppose May from the back benches. In effect Brexit now has another firm ally in the Cabinet, as opposed to Rudd who was sympathetic to Remain.