Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis part 2 - Ireland

[dandelion]

Brexit behind closed doors. Documentary following the Eu negotiating team. Anyone know if its been shown across europe?

BBC iPlayer - Storyville - Brexit: Behind Closed Doors: Part 1

Anyway, who gets offered to the crowd?

Surely the person who becomes next monarch is defined in acts of parliament. It is another example that parliament is sovereign, not the sovereign.

 

[dandelion]

It seems the new Brexit party is rather an unusual political party. It doesnt have members. instead it is a private limited company controlled by Farage and the people who have supplied its money.

More of a one man attempt to take over control of Britain.

Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party

 

[Jason]

Richard III DNA tests uncover evidence of further royal scandal

Coronation may need acclamation, but the right to become a Monarch needs heredity and/or force.

Ask William the Bastard, any of the Plantagenates, Henry Tudor and by the time you get to Dutch William and German George, you need political endorsement as well. Not many Brits will know that George I was 54th in line to the throne.

It's opium for the masses, but don't underestimate heredity amongst the old aristocracy.

Indeed. Henry VII claimed right of conquest, William of Orange was in effect a political appointment (but so very much better than the alternative that no-one was going to argue), and George I was basically parliament in a state of panic.

The forthcoming development with genetic genealogy is what is being termed "Lazarus Genealogy". The concept is that given enough relatives it is possible to establish great chunks of the DNA of someone now dead. In parallel is DNA based on historic samples. We can already do this, but there is no commercial company offering it. A simple technique would be to take DNA from a postage stamp licked by someone.

Very soon we will have good DNA profiles of just about all prominent historic people. Undoubtedly this will throw up all sorts of surprises.

 

[Jason]

It seems the new Brexit party is rather an unusual political party. It doesnt have members. instead it is a private limited company controlled by Farage and the people who have supplied its money.

More of a one man attempt to take over control of Britain.

Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party

This is rubbish.

Political parties in the UK are registered as such with the Electoral Commission. GB and NI have separate registers. The list is here: Search - The Electoral Commission (click the registration link). The Brexit Party is registered as a UK political party and is therefore a political party.

The structure of a political party varies. Most are structured as companies. (Conservative and Labour are exceptions, but almost all political parties are also companies.)

Members of a Company are the shareholders. It looks as if Members of the Brexit Party company are limited to two. However political parties also have members and supporters. Conservative uses the term member (I assume Labour does also). They can use this term because they are not constituted as private limited companies. Brexit Party seems to use the term supporter. I assume Change must be doing the same. What about LibDems? I don't actually know. SNP? PC? I think DUP is probably an Association (but I'm not sure).

 

[dandelion]

This is rubbish. Political parties in the UK are registered as such with the Electoral Commission. GB and NI have separate registers. The list is here: Search - The Electoral Commission (click the registration link). The Brexit Party is registered as a UK political party and is therefore a political party.

I think I said it was a most unusual political party, because instead of having members who decide what it does, it has Nigel Farage who owns it.

 

[Drifterwood]

I think I said it was a most unusual political party, because instead of having members who decide what it does, it has Nigel Farage who owns it.

You mean democratic parties should be democratic?

Heaven forbid.

 

[Jason]

I think I said it was a most unusual political party, because instead of having members who decide what it does, it has Nigel Farage who owns it.

Maybe it is the most honest party.

Labour is in the control of the Momentum anti-Semites. The mob is running Labour. Yes, I know there are issues around who really runs the Conservative Party. Look at the "real" ownership of many political parties. LibDems make an effort towards democracy. SNP and PC manage their members' votes to the extent that the leading politicians run the parties. Is DUP run by Free Presbyterian Church? Sinn Fein may be run by IRA.

 

[798686]

With "friends" like this doing the deal who needs enemies

Verhofstadt: Olly Robbins Asked For Belgian Citizenship -

I know right?

I thought Edel was a particular 'highlight' also...

'shoo the fuckers out of the union', 'they've got their head in the fucking clouds.'

Well, better than having your hands in everyone else's pockets, love.

 

[dandelion]

Maybe it is the most honest party.

You mean, like the german national socialist party it is basically run by just one man, in that case Adolf Hitler, who intends to be absolute dictator?And which in fact has very similar policies?

Labour is in the control of the Momentum anti-Semites.

That seems to be the conservative line. Are they applying the principle of accusing their enemies of what they in fact do? While Mr Farage seems to more straightforwardly want all foreigners out. A survey said leavers believe the only legitimately briish people have two british parents. It is just like the Nazi racial purity laws. So what will they do with those people they dont want if they achieve power? Exile them all to a scottish island, or seek a more final solution?

Ukip - now Brexit party - is following exactly the same track Hitler did.

 

[Jason]

You mean, like the german national socialist party it is basically run by just one man, in that case Adolf Hitler, who intends to be absolute dictator?And which in fact has very similar policies?
.........
Ukip - now Brexit party - is following exactly the same track Hitler did.

Your rhetoric is dangerous and offensive.

Around 6m Jews and others were killed in the concentration camps, and Nazi atrocities led to millions more deaths. The attempt to compare Brexit with the perpetrator of the holocaust demonstrates a failure to recognise the enormity of the crime of the holocaust. It is very close to holocaust denial.

Reductio ad absurdum would be "nation X is led by a man. Hitler was a man. Nation X is like the third reich", or "Merkel is a German. Hitler was a German. Merkel's Germany is like the third reich". One (dubious) point of similarity does not make a valid comparison.

 

[798686]

Your rhetoric is dangerous and offensive.

Around 6m Jews and others were killed in the concentration camps, and Nazi atrocities led to millions more deaths. The attempt to compare Brexit with the perpetrator of the holocaust demonstrates a failure to recognise the enormity of the crime of the holocaust. It is very close to holocaust denial.

Reductio ad absurdum would be "nation X is led by a man. Hitler was a man. Nation X is like the third reich", or "Merkel is a German. Hitler was a German. Merkel's Germany is like the third reich". One (dubious) point of similarity does not make a valid comparison.

He's a strong supporter of Corbyn's Labour, unfortunately - so perhaps not surprising.

Interestingly, on a slightly different note, even Verhofstadt recognised the fact that Remainers (unrealistic) and Labour (voting tactically rather than pragmatically) were just as big an obstacle to solving the Brexit impasse as Brexiteers themselves.

 

[dandelion]

Your rhetoric is dangerous and offensive.

I merely said brexit is following the same track Hitler did. He didnt start out with a policy of exterminating millions of people, he just found that was a populist policy! A one man party with a xenophic approach.

The attempt to compare Brexit with the perpetrator of the holocaust demonstrates a failure to recognise the enormity of the crime of the holocaust. It is very close to holocaust denial

Not at all. Quite the reverse, I am arguing that that scale of destruction is the direction we are heading in. .

 

[dandelion]

even Verhofstadt recognised the fact that Remainers (unrealistic) and Labour (voting tactically rather than pragmatically) were just as big an obstacle to solving the Brexit impasse as Brexiteers themselves.

The EU wants a conclusion, whether in or out. But the Uk cannot give them a conclusion, because half want in and half want out. The question is, will we end up in civil war arguing it out?

well, in fact 1/3 didnt thing it was worth the trouble to get out and vote. 1/3 wanted to stay and 1/3 wanted to leave. Now there is a net majority to remain.

 

[798686]

The EU wants a conclusion, whether in or out. But the Uk cannot give them a conclusion, because half want in and half want out. The question is, will we end up in civil war arguing it out?

well, in fact 1/3 didnt thing it was worth the trouble to get out and vote. 1/3 wanted to stay and 1/3 wanted to leave. Now there is a net majority to remain.

Not surely where you're getting your net majority from?

Not the public - and seemingly not from Westminster, if their indicative votes are anything to go by.

Corbyn needs to get behind a deal, instead of cynically trying to force a general election. He's as bad as Cameron.

 

[Jason]

I think the UK has lost control of political processes. I don't see any May-Corbyn deal happening, and if it does I don't see the Commons supporting it.

I think the EU election has the potential to cause a political upset. If it does this might actually be the start of a way forward. I also think it has the potential for fizzle, with results less definite than might be expected, and with a low turn out allowing politicians to say they don't matter. What would have impact would be for Brexit to do very well indeed (definitions on a postcard) and therefore Brexit demanding and getting a voice in the Brexit process.

One EU election scenario which I mentioned days ago but which is now being whispered by mainstream parties is the very small possibility that Brexit may gain 50%+ of the vote (or Brexit+UKIP) which would in effect be a second leave result.

 

[dandelion]

Not the public - and seemingly not from Westminster, if their indicative votes are anything to go by.

Its still about 55%remain 45% leave if you simply ask this question. Responses to which outcome is most pupular vary a lot, but currently revoke notice to leave and stay without a referendum is most popular.

 

[southeastone]

Not sure how this holds up the board opinion of remain still being in front

Brexit Party Takes 18 Point Lead, Tories Slump to Fifth -

 

[Freddie53]

It seems the new Brexit party is rather an unusual political party. It doesnt have members. instead it is a private limited company controlled by Farage and the people who have supplied its money.

More of a one man attempt to take over control of Britain.

Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party

Dandy, please don't let this news of a political party being a privately held corporation get over here to the US. There are less than 10 multi billionaires who by themselves could fund the party. With over 100 billion dollars in assets, they won't need anyone else.

Speaking of piling it higher and deeper only to go further high and further deep consider this:

The US campaign laws limit personal campaign gifts to just under $3000 per person.

The US Republican Court, I mean, US Supreme Court has ruled that corporations are people who have a voice in elections.

Bet you have ASSumed that this limits corporations to just under $3000 per corporation.

Wrong!

Bad Wrong!

I have no clue how this ruling came to be but:

Corporations are people and should have the rights of people.

Therefore, corporations can spend unlimited funds for candidates for office.

If I own 100 shares in Corporation US and the shares are worth $100, I would have $10,000 invested so if there were 1000 total shares, I could then write the Corporation US board of directors to send my 10 % stake in the amount given to political candidates to Mr. No One Named Trump. Right?

Wrong Again.

Even though I own 10 % of Corporation US, the board of directors can decide to send the entire $100,000 contribution to

Mr. Any One Named Trump.

Suppose Dandelion, Jason, and Joll also own 10 % of Corporation US, together we would own 40 % of Corporation US. Since Bob Barr owns 60 % of Corporation US the entire $100,000 will go to

Mr. Any One Named Trump.

And, there is not a damn thing anyone here, anyone there or anyone in hell can do about it.

Corporations are people. This has been US Constitutional Law going all the way back, ALL the way back to when Chief Justice Roberts was confirmed as the Chief Justice of the US Republican Court, I mean US Supreme Court.

This would be in ancient history of the United States. George Bush was Emperor, I mean President of the United Empire of
North America and British Isles.

I know that in Europe ancient times means before the fall of the Roman Empire. Here in the US it is a period of more than 15 years ago when the alleged event happened.

After all, the universe is not that old. The universe was created in the exact year of 4004 BC. That's right. Not 4003 or 4005, but in 4004 BC. These "bible" scholars from the US use medieval European scholar's research to determine this date.

I suspect you in Europe have read the FAKE NEWS about the universe being billions of years old or even older! Fake News.

The idea that US corporations should not have the rights of people according to the US Constitution is indeed Fake News. Perhaps we should call it Fack News as in Fact News. Has a nice look to it! Don't ya think!!! It could even have more than one pronunciation! Now we are really talking!

 

[Freddie53]

Not sure how this holds up the board opinion of remain still being in front

Brexit Party Takes 18 Point Lead, Tories Slump to Fifth -

Lib Dems are a Remain party 15 %
1/2 of Labour's 16% 8 %
1/2 of Cons. 10% 5 %
Total 28 %

I don't remember where the other two parties stand when it comes to Brexit. If Greens are a Remain party that puts the Remain support at 39 %. I only gave the Conservatives and Labour 50 % for Remain. It most likely is higher than that.

It is time for Labour and Conservatives select new leaders who pledge to work together. Then a consensus grand coolition should lead the UK out of the jungle.

I have come to believe that either the UK needs to be in the EU as a member or be out enough to make all its own trade agreements.

I have come to believe that a Brexit that commits the UK to the trade policies of the EU which means the UK can not sign trade agreements with other nations of the world is the worst path to follow.

The UK is the second largest economy in Europe, the EU would welcome back the UK if the UK saw that it had made a mistake in taking a hard Brexit.

On the other hand, if the 27 other EU nations are able to ignore the UK's positions on everything and keep the UK's economy totally tied to the EU, then the EU might require the UK to be a vassal state of the EU. This would be working totally to the EU's advantage.

An EU that also is hurting from a hard Brexit might be more conciliatory to the UK wanting to come back home than an EU that has profited greatly by the UK taking a hard Brexit and now wanting to come back home.

 

[Jason]

I have come to believe that either the UK needs to be in the EU as a member or be out enough to make all its own trade agreements.

Yes, I think this is correct. Halfway helps no-one.

The problem with Remain is that the EU is a vindictive organisation. If the UK ends up staying then the UK will be punished. It will be a national humiliation and an economic colonisation. It will in effect be an enemy occupation, where the UK parliament is subordinate to the EU institutions (as is Greece, and to a great extent all the smaller nations plus Italy). If the UK Remains then the UK's role will be as boot-lickers.

What is shocking is that even enemy occupation may be better than what May is proposing. That's how bad it is.

We have a parliament of midgets who cannot lead. And we have waiting in the wings a man who is an ultra-Marxist, a man who sees Venezuela as the ideal and wants the destruction of the USA. Bluntly it is time for USA and the free world to give a bit of help. The UK is on the brink.