Eurozone Sovereign Debt Crisis part 2 - Ireland

[RazorsEdge]

Bye Bye Leo it seems....

 

[Jason]

Pretty soon the UK is gonna depend on Ireland for insights into the machinations in Brussels.

There are two outcomes:

1) UK and EU come to an amicable deal and everyone lives happily ever after.
2) There is no deal, or only the most basic deal. The UK regards EU as hostile, and this affects all future discussions about anything. The UK may be willing to sabotage the EU, in particular to seek to weaken the institutions of the EU.

We're a long way off the UK giving active support to anti-EU organisations throughout the EU, but this is now thinkable. The parallel that Boris will put forward is that it is like supporting the French Resistance in 2WW.

 

[Industrialsize]

There are two outcomes:

1) UK and EU come to an amicable deal and everyone lives happily ever after.
2) There is no deal, or only the most basic deal. The UK regards EU as hostile, and this affects all future discussions about anything. The UK may be willing to sabotage the EU, in particular to seek to weaken the institutions of the EU.

We're a long way off the UK giving active support to anti-EU organisations throughout the EU, but this is now thinkable. The parallel that Boris will put forward is that it is like supporting the French Resistance in 2WW.

How do you think "the world" would react to this scenario?

 

[Jason]

How do you think "the world" would react to this scenario?

I think you pose the key question.

Will Trump still be US president, and if so how will he react?
The Canada-EU deal has hit turbulence. How would Canada react?
How would Australia and NZ react?
How would every nation of the EU react?
And what would the reaction be of China, Russia, the Arab nations, Turkey, India? Complicated I think!

I don't think there is any easy answer, but I do think the EU is in danger of running out of friends. In effect the EU is operating as a fortress. It is not inviting the world to do business. Short term this works, but long term, who knows!

 

[Industrialsize]

I think you pose the key question.

Will Trump still be US president, and if so how will he react?
The Canada-EU deal has hit turbulence. How would Canada react?
How would Australia and NZ react?
How would every nation of the EU react?
And what would the reaction be of China, Russia, the Arab nations, Turkey, India? Complicated I think!

I don't think there is any easy answer, but I do think the EU is in danger of running out of friends. In effect the EU is operating as a fortress. It is not inviting the world to do business. Short term this works, but long term, who knows!

You've cast the EU as the villain. I'm not sure the word will agree.

 

[Jason]

You've cast the EU as the villain. I'm not sure the word will agree.

Right now the world is doing business with China and Russia. I don't think the world makes moral judgments. However the world does look at its own interests. This is where the EU comes unstuck. It is a problem block for trade because it ties everything up with red tape and then more red tape. I don't think the EU has either friends or keen business partners.

If there is a punch-up between UK and EU I think most nations will aim to keep out - but they will watch from the sidelines and cheer if the EU gets a bloody nose.

 

[eurotop40]

Right now the world is doing business with China and Russia. I don't think the world makes moral judgments. However the world does look at its own interests. This is where the EU comes unstuck. It is a problem block for trade because it ties everything up with red tape and then more red tape. I don't think the EU has either friends or keen business partners.
If there is a punch-up between UK and EU I think most nations will aim to keep out - but they will watch from the sidelines and cheer if the EU gets a bloody nose.

Typical self-delusion of a sick mind. Substituted the word "world" with "British government":

 

[RazorsEdge]

So Leo bites the dust, let’s see what the EU think of their useful idiot now.

 

[g0nz0]

So Leo bites the dust, let’s see what the EU think of their useful idiot now.

A BoJo supporter calling Dr. Leo an idiot cracks me up.

Wonderful whiff-whaffing for the win! If only waffle could get you guys out of the hole you're continually digging for yourselves...

 

[seventiesdemon]

Brexit has come and gone....................the royals still exist, Harry and Meghan pretend to separate from royal pastness...yet Harry keeps his prestige car collection.

Same old...same old. And you know why we can't find out details of the Royal Family.............is because they are protected right up to the whazoo...they are not able to be investigated, prosecuted, anything.

So there.....democracy at it's finest. Royalty at it's best.

I guess most of the UK believes in having those above them living a better life because of birth. Two thirds of the UK belong to nobility.........huh?????

Dipshits worshiping parasites.

 

[dandelion]

I think you are right @dandelion that the EU has set out its position and will not budge. In this case we don't have a deal. The negotiations can be very short indeed.

The UK position, if you listen to government speeches,would seem to be that it wants a deal with the EU, is prepared to accept EU terms. Just...they have to be reformulated in a way so that they dont look like EU terms. Really, just what May tried to do.

The government position really hasnt changed at all. It is seeking to stay in the EU market system under another name. This isnt surprising because, fundamentally, the EU is just one huge trade deal. And the UK needa a trade deal with the EU. It has to look much like the last one. But... by leaving the administrative systems of the EU, the UK has made itself a vassal state of the EU. What we once ruled, we now have to obey.

Surely we should give Ireland what they say they want, a united Ireland!

No mate. What they want is what they had as EU members. best of both worlds. Free access across the Island of Ireland. Ability to set their own laws in the North. Money handed to them by England. What is going to happen is they continue to make th best of this for as long as they can. The deal allows them to force the UK government to keep providing the money, while they get to have open borders across Ireland. To accomplish this, the Uk has gcreed to stay inside various aspects of the EU trading system, and under control of the ECJ. This is now UK law, and unlike the last Eu treaty, this one doesnt have a get out clause (unless the N. Irish agree)

Brexit has come and gone..........

It hasnt even started! Before the year is out we may have yet another election because floppy cannot get his new deal with the EU through parliament.

 

[dandelion]

Right now the world is doing business with China and Russia.

Interesting you see the Uk as now on a par with China and Russia. You may indeed be right - in terms of reputation.

In terms of economic power, china is clearly a grwoing power. Russia too probably. While the Uk is on the way down?

 

[g0nz0]

Hey, Brits. Your Google data is leaving the EU before you are: Hoard to be shipped from Ireland to US next month

 

[Jason]

Has Google invented time travel? Can data flow back to a dark and terrible time before the UK left the EU?

 

[Jason]

No mate. What they want is what they had as EU members. best of both worlds. Free access across the Island of Ireland.

You've misunderstood me.

My suggestion is that we should give the people of the Republic of Ireland what they say they want: Northern Ireland. As a symbol we could roll Arlene Foster in a carpet (like Cleopatra) and deliver her to Dublin with an Orange Order pipe and flute band playing. This is what the people of the Republic of Ireland want, and they should have it.

In political terms it is quite possible to see Unionist MPs elected to the parliament of a united Ireland holding the balance of power. Now the UK has had that particular experience with the DUP giving May a majority, so we wouldn't be wishing on Republic of Ireland anything that the UK hasn't tried out.

 

[dandelion]

You've misunderstood me.My suggestion is that we should give the people of the Republic of Ireland what they say they want: Northern Ireland.

Your solution then to the dismemberment of the the UK threatened by Brexit...is to dismantle the UK? N. Ireland will be forced out to join the south, Scotland to become an independent nation?

It is true surveys have been carried out which show most leavers would be perfectly happy to see all these places cease to be part of the UK if that is necessary for Brexit to happen. But that leaves most remainers, and indeed most of the nation, who do not see dismemberment of the UK as an acceptable price for Brexit.

Good to know where you stand though (with Russia!)

 

[eurotop40]

Your solution then to the dismemberment of the the UK threatened by Brexit...is to dismantle the UK? N. Ireland will be forced out to join the south, Scotland to become an independent nation?
It is true surveys have been carried out which show most leavers would be perfectly happy to see all these places cease to be part of the UK if that is necessary for Brexit to happen. But that leaves most remainers, and indeed most of the nation, who do not see dismemberment of the UK as an acceptable price for Brexit.
Good to know where you stand though (with Russia!)

Is it a surprise?

 

[g0nz0]

This is too funny... Brexiteers are so fond of their new blue passports and the nationalistic connotations of same, despite the fact that they could have switched to blue at any point even as EU members... so now these new ultra British passports are being made... not in Sunderland, but in Poland...

In one of the ironies of Brexit, the 11-year, £260 million contract was won by a subsidiary of the French multinational group Thales last year, after its British competitor De La Rue lost out.

UK post-Brexit blue passports made in Polish factory | News | The Times

You'd think there would be more important things to fret about than passport cover, but this epitomizes Brexit. A false façade, a flimsy subterfuge cover, glossing over inconvenient truths

 

[Jason]

This is too funny... Brexiteers are so fond of their new blue passports and the nationalistic connotations of same, despite the fact that they could have switched to blue at any point even as EU members... so now these new ultra British passports are being made... not in Sunderland, but in Poland...

In one of the ironies of Brexit, the 11-year, £260 million contract was won by a subsidiary of the French multinational group Thales last year, after its British competitor De La Rue lost out.

UK post-Brexit blue passports made in Polish factory | News | The Times

You'd think there would be more important things to fret about than passport cover, but this epitomizes Brexit. A false façade, a flimsy subterfuge cover, glossing over inconvenient truths

My passport is only six months old. However I expect I will pay out to change it very soon.

The passport is a symbol of identity. It is a "flag and anthem" issue. It is not backed by considerations of the head but of the heart.

In twenty years I have changed from an ardent pro European to someone utterly disenchanted with the EU project to the extent that I reject the descriptor of myself as European. Yes, I know about geography, but this is not what it is about. I actively dislike the EU flag, and all remnants of EU influence in the UK. Yes, I want a blue passport. For that matter I want a driving licence without the EU flag on it.

Curiously bidding for the contractor to manufacture the blue passports was carried out under the old EU rules. We don't yet have a formal announcement, but we are presumably on the cusp of seeing a legal change so that UK companies are prioritised in projects such as this (and HS2). There's no great problem with a Polish factory making them, but once the contract period is up I expect manufacture to shift to UK.

 

[Jason]

Your solution then to the dismemberment of the the UK threatened by Brexit...is to dismantle the UK? N. Ireland will be forced out to join the south, Scotland to become an independent nation?

It is true surveys have been carried out which show most leavers would be perfectly happy to see all these places cease to be part of the UK if that is necessary for Brexit to happen. But that leaves most remainers, and indeed most of the nation, who do not see dismemberment of the UK as an acceptable price for Brexit.

Good to know where you stand though (with Russia!)

You are not good on irony, are you?